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Do you feel that is fair that Soldiers are getting honorable discharges for PT failure? I feel like some Soldiers are using it as a scapegoat to get out of the Army. Do you agree?
Posted in these groups: 
Physical Training
Discharge
Physical Training Discharge
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 128
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The military is not for everyone, some find out too late. I thank them for their service and send them on their way. <div>No reason to ruin the rest of their lives possibly by giving them anything other than an honorable discharge.</div><div>I do however wish there was an expedited process for getting them out. One with less paperwork and less legal review.</div>
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PFC (Join to see)
MAJ Ken Landgren - Sir, first thing, my apologies for not replying sooner. There is a way to get rid of medically impaired Soldiers: the MEB process. If it's a medical issue caused by the Army and a Soldier fails his or her pt test, it's the Army's job to take of him or her since the Army caused the injury. It wouldn't be right to chapter a Soldier for pt failure in these instances.
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MAJ Ken Landgren
I concur about the MED board for soldiers with permanent ailments. One of our problems is not all soldiers are discharged or treated equally.
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SGT (Join to see)
SPC (Join to see) - Then as a leader you work with the soldier, as a peer you help the soldier. You do what you can, if they are trying they will welcome the help. The thing to remember is encourage not discourage.
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Whoa, pump the brakes kid (I love that phrase). PT tests as "the line in the sand"? What about "300+ PT Studs" who otherwise suck at soldiering? Are we putting proper emphasis where it really belongs here?
But I digress.
Most who fail, and do so chronically, have themselves to blame, yes, but not all have "let themselves go". I know more than a few grunts who spent 20+ years beating themselves up in the Army or had injuries stateside or in combat who consequently struggle to or can no longer pass the PT test. Generally they had to wait out a med board or wait out their contract-whichever came 1st.
When you are young, healthy and uninjured, it’s real easy to pass judgment on everyone else who can't meet the standards you do. Be careful with that. Ever since I had foot surgery for an injury I got TDY at Aberdeen Proving Ground (Best TDY EVER!! Had to say it.), my runs have never come back to where they once were. Being that I'm now a Reservist and don't PT every day--and 42 years old--doesn't make it any easier, but I manage; in fact I passed my PT test last month thank you very much!
Better example: One guy in my old unit was a designated shit bag because he couldn't pass the PT test anymore...never mind he did some super-hooah shit in Iraq that he was recognized for. Still, that was then and only now matters in some people's eyes. He could have saved the fucking world from the Death Star, a reincarnated Adolf Hitler and Chuck Norris's long-lost evil twin brother barehanded all while singing the Army Song and nursing motherless kittens, and it would not mean ONE DAMN THING if he didn't pass a PT test. His service to his country and the Army FAR exceeded mine, but only because I could barely pass a PT test (failed a diagnostic once) whereas he couldn't, should his discharge really be anything other than honorable? Really?!
Are there PT test malingerers trying to get out early? Sure, but I don't believe I've known any either Active or Reserve side. Considering how long I've seen it take the Army to get rid of people who REALLY screw up, I'd think it would just be faster to ride out the contract!
I do agree there has to be standards. All I'm saying is PT tests as THE standard for keeping soldiers and/or the type of discharge they receive is not a wise blanket policy.
But I digress.
Most who fail, and do so chronically, have themselves to blame, yes, but not all have "let themselves go". I know more than a few grunts who spent 20+ years beating themselves up in the Army or had injuries stateside or in combat who consequently struggle to or can no longer pass the PT test. Generally they had to wait out a med board or wait out their contract-whichever came 1st.
When you are young, healthy and uninjured, it’s real easy to pass judgment on everyone else who can't meet the standards you do. Be careful with that. Ever since I had foot surgery for an injury I got TDY at Aberdeen Proving Ground (Best TDY EVER!! Had to say it.), my runs have never come back to where they once were. Being that I'm now a Reservist and don't PT every day--and 42 years old--doesn't make it any easier, but I manage; in fact I passed my PT test last month thank you very much!
Better example: One guy in my old unit was a designated shit bag because he couldn't pass the PT test anymore...never mind he did some super-hooah shit in Iraq that he was recognized for. Still, that was then and only now matters in some people's eyes. He could have saved the fucking world from the Death Star, a reincarnated Adolf Hitler and Chuck Norris's long-lost evil twin brother barehanded all while singing the Army Song and nursing motherless kittens, and it would not mean ONE DAMN THING if he didn't pass a PT test. His service to his country and the Army FAR exceeded mine, but only because I could barely pass a PT test (failed a diagnostic once) whereas he couldn't, should his discharge really be anything other than honorable? Really?!
Are there PT test malingerers trying to get out early? Sure, but I don't believe I've known any either Active or Reserve side. Considering how long I've seen it take the Army to get rid of people who REALLY screw up, I'd think it would just be faster to ride out the contract!
I do agree there has to be standards. All I'm saying is PT tests as THE standard for keeping soldiers and/or the type of discharge they receive is not a wise blanket policy.
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CSM Mike Maynard
MSgt (Join to see) - there are very few "1-strike mentality" events that lead to discharge (in fact there are none in the family, medical, financial events that you mention), and the few that do exist - DUI as an NCO, Drug use as an NCO, etc - are fair.
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MSgt (Join to see)
CSM Mike Maynard - Very few that'd hit you directly and lead you out the door in 6 months or less. But an unkind word, a missed suspense, a failed leadership opportunity and a cadre of other activities can have a major impact on later career progression. At the very least, a missed decoration can impact promotion points and at the most, a less than favorable EPR rating sends big waves through a board. In the long term, mistakes can lead to HYT, draw-down cuts, and non-recommendations on reenlistment. CSM, even if I am categorically wrong on the factual basis of my premise, the perception of truth is enough to do damage to morale.
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CSM Mike Maynard
MSgt (Join to see) - An "unkind word" can have a major impact on career progression? Not likely, unless that "unkind word" is a sexual remark or something just as ethically/morally wrong, and in that case, it should effect your progression. A "missed suspense" can have a major impact on career progression? Not likely, unless that "missed suspense" is disobeying an order or something to do with taking care of your Soldiers, and in that case, it should effect your progression. A "less than favorable" rating does not send big waves, it makes you average and that makes your progression average.
The system is crafted in such a way that it rewards top performers, tolerates average performers and has disdain for poor performers. It is a form of capitalism/competition that creates the best version of the military - similar to a sports team. Average or sub-par performers are not celebrated. If you're average or below average, then, yes, the ability for you to continue service is in jeopardy, as it should be in an elite organization.
The last part of your post is really troubling - that the perception of truth, even if the facts are categorically wrong, can do damage to morale? Maybe folks should focus more on facts & reality and not on what they think is happening.
The system is crafted in such a way that it rewards top performers, tolerates average performers and has disdain for poor performers. It is a form of capitalism/competition that creates the best version of the military - similar to a sports team. Average or sub-par performers are not celebrated. If you're average or below average, then, yes, the ability for you to continue service is in jeopardy, as it should be in an elite organization.
The last part of your post is really troubling - that the perception of truth, even if the facts are categorically wrong, can do damage to morale? Maybe folks should focus more on facts & reality and not on what they think is happening.
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SSG Jimmy Hubbard
You are correct. There are those who can do a 300 but arn't worth a darn in the field or just normal garrison duty
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I really don't care if they scapegoat APFT/BF failure to get out of the Army to be honest.<br><br>If they are doing it, they don't want to be here and in turn, I don't want them here. Keeping those types around always had a negative impact on discipline and morale, so as a 1SG, I used to try to give them the expressway to the....uhhh....expressway.<br><br>Plus, we are having to cut the force significantly in the upcoming years, they are just helping to reach the goals.<br>
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CPT Mark Gonzalez
Agree with CSM Maynard the worst discharge they can get in this situation is a general.
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1LT Lydia Hales
CSM Mike Maynard - thanks CSM. I Knew that and didn't use the correct term. Brain was not engaged. Appreciate thr catch.
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PFC (Join to see)
How long does the discharge process take to complete before the soldier is released?
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