Honorable discharges for PT failures?

The military is not for everyone, some find out too late. &nbsp;I thank them for their service and send them on their way. &nbsp;<div>No reason to ruin the rest of their lives possibly by giving them anything other than an honorable discharge.</div><div>I do however wish there was an expedited process for getting them out. &nbsp;One with less paperwork and less legal review.</div>

Whoa, pump the brakes kid (I love that phrase). PT tests as "the line in the sand"? What about "300+ PT Studs" who otherwise suck at soldiering? Are we putting proper emphasis where it really belongs here?

But I digress.

Most who fail, and do so chronically, have themselves to blame, yes, but not all have "let themselves go". I know more than a few grunts who spent 20+ years beating themselves up in the Army or had injuries stateside or in combat who consequently struggle to or can no longer pass the PT test. Generally they had to wait out a med board or wait out their contract-whichever came 1st.

When you are young, healthy and uninjured, it’s real easy to pass judgment on everyone else who can't meet the standards you do. Be careful with that. Ever since I had foot surgery for an injury I got TDY at Aberdeen Proving Ground (Best TDY EVER!! Had to say it.), my runs have never come back to where they once were. Being that I'm now a Reservist and don't PT every day--and 42 years old--doesn't make it any easier, but I manage; in fact I passed my PT test last month thank you very much!

Better example: One guy in my old unit was a designated shit bag because he couldn't pass the PT test anymore...never mind he did some super-hooah shit in Iraq that he was recognized for. Still, that was then and only now matters in some people's eyes. He could have saved the fucking world from the Death Star, a reincarnated Adolf Hitler and Chuck Norris's long-lost evil twin brother barehanded all while singing the Army Song and nursing motherless kittens, and it would not mean ONE DAMN THING if he didn't pass a PT test. His service to his country and the Army FAR exceeded mine, but only because I could barely pass a PT test (failed a diagnostic once) whereas he couldn't, should his discharge really be anything other than honorable? Really?!

Are there PT test malingerers trying to get out early? Sure, but I don't believe I've known any either Active or Reserve side. Considering how long I've seen it take the Army to get rid of people who REALLY screw up, I'd think it would just be faster to ride out the contract!

I do agree there has to be standards. All I'm saying is PT tests as THE standard for keeping soldiers and/or the type of discharge they receive is not a wise blanket policy.

I really don't care if they scapegoat APFT/BF failure to get out of the Army to be honest.<br><br>If they are doing it, they don't want to be here and in turn, I don't want them here.&nbsp; Keeping those types around always had a negative impact on discipline and morale, so as a 1SG, I used to try to give them the expressway to the....uhhh....expressway.<br><br>Plus, we are having to cut the force significantly in the upcoming years, they are just helping to reach the goals.<br>

There's a huge difference between dishonor to the service and not meeting a standard.

I agree with MSG Gianunzio, but if a Soldier is manipulating the system by continuously and purposely failing to meet a set standard (and proper rehabilitation has been afforded), yes, PFC Bergstrom, these Soldiers should receive a General Discharge and lose entitlement to the Post-9/11 GI Bill and other benefits.<br><br>The Army does not need these types of people around and the VA surely does not need these types of people sucking money and benefits for years to come.

I've been trying to get out of the Navy for 26 years.

Did they serve honorably? That's what matters. Thank them serving and send them on their way.

i was honorably discharged as a pt failure, I had shin splints, a douche PT stud PSG and I was the worst kinda person in his eyes. even though I tried as hard as I could. after a lengthy profile and all the bullshit I was discharged. the bright side was that I was very good at my MOS 25B. now I work as a civilian contractor and the military definitely helped me with what I do for a living. I think the whole deal of who gets what kind of discharge should be left up to the leadership on a soldier to soldier basis. I didn't want to get out, I was a good soldier but could do anything about it. so I got an honorable. on the other hand the kid that got caught 5 separate times drinking underage almost got a less than honorable. they tried to stick me with one and I had to voice my opinion on it and was allowed to present my case to my 1SG. I guess what im trying to say is honestly, your discharge doesn't mean shit. at no point in the entirety of me being out has any employer asked for my DD214 or even what discharge I got. they make it seem like the end of the world if you get anything besides honorable. you should only be worried about a dishonorable. but you have to do something bergdahl status to get one of those

PFC Bergstrom - great question as there is no black/white requirement in the regulation. It's these types of discussions that allows everyone to see this from a different point of view and to possibly give them more things to consider when faced with situations like this.<div><br></div><div>A lot of folks on here have given some great insight into this - some think that the Army is hard and not for everyone and maybe there are some that can't meet the standard because of physical/genetic capabilities. On the other hand, there are those that think since you met the standard in basic/AIT, then you should be able to meet the standard utilizing your own discipline, so a failure to meet APFT/ABCP is a failure in discipline/duty.</div><div><br></div><div>I think we have to consider their whole service and if they contribute in other ways - job performance, volunteering, etc. If it seems that the APFT/ABCP is an isolated failure and they have done their best to try and meet the standard, then they probably deserve an Honorable. If they quit or their APFT/ABCP failure is indicative of the rest of their performance, then they probably deserve a General Under Honorable.</div><div><br></div><div>Bottom-line, we have to preserve that Honorable Characterization for those that deserve it - wouldn't seem fair for someone who quits to get the same benefits as someone who does their time honorably.&nbsp;</div>

No, I do not agree. Provided they served honorably and did not go AWOL or commit some major offense. Failing a pt test or ht/wt is not dishonorable, thats why it's not covered under UCMJ. To even consider giving someone anything less than honorable for APFT/HT/WT failure is completely unnecessary. Even if they're doing so just go get out of the army, so be it, let them out. The army isn't meant for everyone, some join and quickly realize that they do not want to stay in and want out ASAP, and before they started allowing soldiers to volunteer out, failing an apft or ht/wt was the safest way to avoid UCMJ. It's far better than soldiers doing drugs to get out. Don't ruin someones future due to them being overweight or unable to meet apft standards, it's not that serious.