Posted on Oct 3, 2017
How can I end harassing behavior from my Plt Sgt (attempted fraternization)? Is there any specific Army regulation or guidance?
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My PLT SGT is making my life hell. He is overly familiar, inept in every way, has zero respect for boundaries. He
msgs me to discuss his marital issues, sends long voice messages asking for advice on weekends. He's an E6. I'm a SPC(P). Ive reported him and told him to stop. Ive explained professionalism. Nothing is done. Army specifics I can use to put an end to this once and for all?
msgs me to discuss his marital issues, sends long voice messages asking for advice on weekends. He's an E6. I'm a SPC(P). Ive reported him and told him to stop. Ive explained professionalism. Nothing is done. Army specifics I can use to put an end to this once and for all?
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Posted 8 y ago
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First, make sure you have clearly and bluntly told your PLT SGT you find his behavior unacceptable and you will not tolerate it. Retain the voicemails and any other off-duty, non-duty related conversations he has had with you. Document the events objectively, and stay on topic (if his shoes aren't shiny or his leadership skills are lacking, that's not relevant right now...focus on any harassment or inappropriate conversations or actions). Write down memo-for-records with dates and times. Next, find the sexual harassment representatives on post and bring your documentation. You have the power to stop this. Your command chain has a responsibility to protect you all the way to the top, and they will.
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MSgt (Join to see)
SFC Carlos Cruz - Please cite the military/DoD regulation or Federal law for that.
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SPC Troy Shelby
SFC Carlos Cruz - As the MSgt stated no it is not illegal to record phone calls in which you are part of the conversation and no you dont have to notify the other party you are recording, again as long as you are part of the conversation doing so is not wiretapping because you arnt tapping the other persons phone you are recording conversations on your phone. Quit trying to discourage this young woman from doing what she needs to in order to be safe from what sounds to be unwanted and unwarranted attention from someone in her command chain, her Sgt is out of line and should be held accountable.
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SFC Carlos Cruz
SPC Troy Shelby you must have a very small brain to comprehend what I was I forming this soldier when it come to issue the get get her in trouble.
She have the right to go to high command & file sexual harassment. Read the regulations before you can said something the will destroy anyone. I am not discourage her or anyone when it come to unacceptable behavior. See JAG if you have any Questions & Recording another person is illegal. The army gave Regulations the can help you understand how the army run.
She have the right to go to high command & file sexual harassment. Read the regulations before you can said something the will destroy anyone. I am not discourage her or anyone when it come to unacceptable behavior. See JAG if you have any Questions & Recording another person is illegal. The army gave Regulations the can help you understand how the army run.
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SFC Carlos Cruz
SPC Troy Shelby The MSgt is wrong & if you ask JAG you will find out the is illegal to record anyone. She have. Chain of command if she can go higher if she don’t trust people with it in her command. This is a clear SHARP issue and she doesn’t need to put up with this behavior.
Sometime you must read before you provide a real bad advice, The Army isn’t the Air Force & MSgt is Air Force. Ask when in doubts. See JAG when in doubts.
Sometime you must read before you provide a real bad advice, The Army isn’t the Air Force & MSgt is Air Force. Ask when in doubts. See JAG when in doubts.
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If you have reported these acts to your Company Chain of Command and nothing has been done, take this up with your BN EO/EEO/SHARP reps.
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SGT Aaron Combs
Could you file harrasment with the provost marshalls office? Or even civilian SO/PD?
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Maj Marcia Ann Kuehl
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My niece had a similar problem - and nothing was being done - I called the command - and guess what - she had a FEMALE Major who basically told her to 'suck it up buttercup" or get out - I called her commander - and that was that - Sometime you need to keep going up the chain to get ACTION -
My niece had a similar problem - and nothing was being done - I called the command - and guess what - she had a FEMALE Major who basically told her to 'suck it up buttercup" or get out - I called her commander - and that was that - Sometime you need to keep going up the chain to get ACTION -
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This is very alarming. If a person exhibits reckless behavior like this you really don't know where it may lead. He sounds like he sees you as something of interest or believes he has some type of relationship. If he comes to the point where he feels rejected you don't know what he may do. You can't be rational with an irrational person. I would refer this to a SHARP rep or just open door this all the way up the BN CSM.
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SSG (Join to see)
Hey i don't agree with her either, however it goes without saying that even in the military, we have bad leaders. I have encountered them so I will not act like they are not there, but it isn't the majority, and eventually they get found out.
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UPDATE: I read all of the advice and comments. I want to thank all of you for taking the time to read and respond.
I got everything together and went to my 1SG. After reading and hearing some of things my PSG said, he assures me he will take care of it. I can't accurately describe his reaction but so far, whatever he did say, is working. No more messaging me or talking to me about his personal life. He hasn't stopped by my desk for chit chat and if he's still eavesdropping he isn't commenting or making it obvious. Dare I say that he actually did a little work the next day?!
Hopefully it sticks....
I got everything together and went to my 1SG. After reading and hearing some of things my PSG said, he assures me he will take care of it. I can't accurately describe his reaction but so far, whatever he did say, is working. No more messaging me or talking to me about his personal life. He hasn't stopped by my desk for chit chat and if he's still eavesdropping he isn't commenting or making it obvious. Dare I say that he actually did a little work the next day?!
Hopefully it sticks....
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CPT Thomas Cofield
That is good but keep records of everything that happened before you went to the 1SG. This kind of behavior tends to be pathologic and he may start doing this stuff again. Whether you want to start SHARP proceedings again him is up to you but also remember that if he is doing this to you there is a good chance that he will attempt this in the future with someone else. I'm glad the situation is better though.
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LTC (Join to see)
I am glad to see that the system is working, unfortunately it is still a very fragile system and must be maintained. Stay vigilant! Make sure that his individual maintains their professional distance. Report ANY issues that re-occur... and most importantly, share what you have learned!
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SPC Tiffany Ivanov "How can I end harassing behavior from my Plt Sgt (attempted fraternization)? Is there any specific Army regulation or guidance?"
The guidance is simple, if not pleasant.
Document your request to the NCO to STOP now. Telling him you desire no conversation that is not specifically job related. You do not want general advice or mentoring of any kind at this time. Thanks, but no thanks. Thats written and given to him with a witness that can attest to what is in the letter.
Or by email but include a phrase that will make him want to respond, which proves he read it.
That is a one shot deal..if anything happens after that your not comfortable with then immediately use the Open door policy to the commander with Bn or BDE SHARP rep present .. NO ONE ON ONE conversations.
Take the high road, "Im not mad, and not even positive its being done with malice, but it is making me uncomfortable.
I might even suggest at the same time you give the NCO notice to stop.. you go to the commander and tell him (her) your not ready to give him a name, but you are saying there is an issue your trying to resolve at the lowest level..if it does not work, you will be coming to him immediately.
It does two things.... One, if you have to go back to the CDR, it will not be the "1st time" you have brought it up.
It also will put the CDR on notice, if he is not familiar with the rules, process, regulations for handling a SHARP complaint, he better get educated NOW, before you come back.
You might get pressured to give a name immediately, but that is a choice you can make.... Saying, you want to make sure it is what you are perceiving, and not a mistake before you get others involved should be looked on favorable ...but some leaders (most) have a high internal instinct to "know" as much as possible about something they are or will be dealing with..
The guidance is simple, if not pleasant.
Document your request to the NCO to STOP now. Telling him you desire no conversation that is not specifically job related. You do not want general advice or mentoring of any kind at this time. Thanks, but no thanks. Thats written and given to him with a witness that can attest to what is in the letter.
Or by email but include a phrase that will make him want to respond, which proves he read it.
That is a one shot deal..if anything happens after that your not comfortable with then immediately use the Open door policy to the commander with Bn or BDE SHARP rep present .. NO ONE ON ONE conversations.
Take the high road, "Im not mad, and not even positive its being done with malice, but it is making me uncomfortable.
I might even suggest at the same time you give the NCO notice to stop.. you go to the commander and tell him (her) your not ready to give him a name, but you are saying there is an issue your trying to resolve at the lowest level..if it does not work, you will be coming to him immediately.
It does two things.... One, if you have to go back to the CDR, it will not be the "1st time" you have brought it up.
It also will put the CDR on notice, if he is not familiar with the rules, process, regulations for handling a SHARP complaint, he better get educated NOW, before you come back.
You might get pressured to give a name immediately, but that is a choice you can make.... Saying, you want to make sure it is what you are perceiving, and not a mistake before you get others involved should be looked on favorable ...but some leaders (most) have a high internal instinct to "know" as much as possible about something they are or will be dealing with..
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PFC (Join to see)
SSG James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" - I hope that you can track her down to find out if she is ok. Some one cannot get over a trauma like rape and then just lose all contact with friends.
Please try to find her JP4 I know it's been awhile but it never hurts to reach out and let her know that you are still her friend and that you still care about what she went thru. Don't let her suffer alone.
Please try to find her JP4 I know it's been awhile but it never hurts to reach out and let her know that you are still her friend and that you still care about what she went thru. Don't let her suffer alone.
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SGM Erik Marquez
SPC Tiffany Ivanov
Thanks for the note glad it all worked out keep records of everything in case it ever comes up again
Thanks for the note glad it all worked out keep records of everything in case it ever comes up again
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He blames his lack of professionalism and inability to complete any tasks on his ADHD. A poor excuse at best. He stands at my desk quoting movies and laughing loudly then asking if I'm even listening. I now his marriage is shit but I don't care. He has no friends and I don't care. We aren't friends.
He is so desperate for understanding that he has forced a fictitious friendship. I don't care that his idol is Jim Carrey from Liar Liar. If I'm getting long messages at 2200 when I'm home with my family or on weekends then i need it to be work info. This has become toxic and hostile. I enjoy working. I like going to the field. I like training. I like being busy. And now i dread going to work. Top was moving him into supply but days later he told me that refused to do it.....because he might miss something going on out here. I run the TNG and Orderly Room and he wants to know everything all the time. Personal shit he doesn't need to know. He is absolutely unprofessional in every conceivable way and he has been reported several times. He is trying to extend his tour again but if not, he PCSs in January. I won't last that long without losing rank. I can no longer maintain my bearing. If losing my shit on him did Nothing, and believe me he is absolutely clueless that what he is doing is insane, and reporting to my 1SG hasn't changed his behavior, what is my next step? He is convinced we are best friends no matter how many times I've told him professionalism professionalism professionalism! He has the memory of a ferret and can't complete the simplest of tasks. He is also the biggest narcissist I have ever had the misfortune to meet. I can't do this anymore. Square me away PLEASE before I shred my family care plan and square up with him or pull a Half Baked exit seen.
He is so desperate for understanding that he has forced a fictitious friendship. I don't care that his idol is Jim Carrey from Liar Liar. If I'm getting long messages at 2200 when I'm home with my family or on weekends then i need it to be work info. This has become toxic and hostile. I enjoy working. I like going to the field. I like training. I like being busy. And now i dread going to work. Top was moving him into supply but days later he told me that refused to do it.....because he might miss something going on out here. I run the TNG and Orderly Room and he wants to know everything all the time. Personal shit he doesn't need to know. He is absolutely unprofessional in every conceivable way and he has been reported several times. He is trying to extend his tour again but if not, he PCSs in January. I won't last that long without losing rank. I can no longer maintain my bearing. If losing my shit on him did Nothing, and believe me he is absolutely clueless that what he is doing is insane, and reporting to my 1SG hasn't changed his behavior, what is my next step? He is convinced we are best friends no matter how many times I've told him professionalism professionalism professionalism! He has the memory of a ferret and can't complete the simplest of tasks. He is also the biggest narcissist I have ever had the misfortune to meet. I can't do this anymore. Square me away PLEASE before I shred my family care plan and square up with him or pull a Half Baked exit seen.
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TSgt Johnnie Keller
If they chain of command isn't doing their job, I have to say that your next step is the IG's office. Not a first choice, but if you aren't being heard; take your facts and have a sit down with the IG. This guy sounds like he shouldn't be in the military let alone in a leadership position.
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LTC (Join to see)
Be sure to share this perception to your chain of command. The individual may also need some serious counseling should his behavior turn for the worse.
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SFC Carlos Cruz
Tiffany I am very confused when I explain don’t tell no one only file a SHARP report because 99% leadership never fix the problem only pressing charges is what will make a difference. I know before I left the 82nd Airborne Division I was a SHARP NCOIC at Battalion level, move to Bridge also because I didn’t had no mercy on any Predator therefore just file a complaint omg wake up.
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"CPT Joseph K Murdock
Posted 1 m ago
Emails make great evidence."
an email responded to makes good evidence, but otherwise its one way conversation.... It can be proven it was sent, but not read by the intended recipient baring computer tech stuff anyway.
But a "Please stop now" email that includes an "safe question" the reader is sure to respond to, now you have the return answer email that proves the intended recipient received, and read the email.
"PSG, please stop the harassment now, thanks, Im sure you don't mean anything by it, but it make me uncomfortable. Oh and is PT in full uniform tomorrow morning or just shorts and short?"
Posted 1 m ago
Emails make great evidence."
an email responded to makes good evidence, but otherwise its one way conversation.... It can be proven it was sent, but not read by the intended recipient baring computer tech stuff anyway.
But a "Please stop now" email that includes an "safe question" the reader is sure to respond to, now you have the return answer email that proves the intended recipient received, and read the email.
"PSG, please stop the harassment now, thanks, Im sure you don't mean anything by it, but it make me uncomfortable. Oh and is PT in full uniform tomorrow morning or just shorts and short?"
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SSG (Join to see)
SGM emails are actually really good for this especially since outlook provides the "read receipt" option. Blind CC is also a great feature since her 1SG is aware of the situation.
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SGM Erik Marquez
SSG (Join to see) - ""read receipt" option." In case your not aware, its is just that an option, both sender and reader must accept. If the reader does not accept returning a read notice, the send gets nothing back.
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Vonice LarsenBailey
the delivery receipt is a great cya, as it shows the message was delivered. Even if a read receipt does not get sent back, it will still show if the email was read, should it come to the point of proving it was read. Technology is a wonderful double edged sword.
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Document everything, save all evidence. I had an incident when I was a supposedly seasoned Division Officer (platoon Leader). I had a junior sailor that was being beat up by his Chief (NCO) on an almost daily basis. Unfortunately, the Chief was very slippery as well, and hid a bunch of stuff from me. When the sailor finally came to me, I came down like holy hell on the Chief, had him immediately transferred off the ship. My point in this is that when you collect all the evidence, have given him fair warning, go up the Chain. If he is as slippery as you say ( and I believe you BTW), the officers farther up the chain probably are being swayed by what he says. Take it to them, and tell them that you want something done immediately, and if not you will go to the EO folks. I would frame the conversation something like " This has been going on for awhile, should I take it to the EO Officer?" If you tell them that if they don't do anything you will take it to the EO Officer, it won't give them a chance to deal with it. Guarantee you that no officer wants to deal with an EO case (I have had a number of them). Best of luck and really sorry that this is happening in today's military...
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SSG James Swarr
SPC Tiffany Ivanov - Keep us updated...I may be just nosy but
I'd like to know that justice is happening
I'd like to know that justice is happening
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SPC (Join to see)
SPC Tiffany Ivanov - I hope your situation gets resolved asap no junior enlisted should endure this type of stress. I am so sorry you are going through this
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Since you reported him to the CoC and nothing has been done, or if you are uncomfortable with that or no change has happened, contact your EO/EEO or SHARP representative they will fifure out which realm is most appropriate . We used to crush nuts over this type of behavior. Save all the Msgs and texts to help substantiate your issues.
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CSM Richard StCyr
I found this :We're all throwing opinions around and none of us are putting the actual program info out.
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CSM Richard StCyr
CSM Richard StCyr - Complainant. Complainants have the option to file an informal
or formal complaint of sexual harassment and can submit
the complaint to a member of the chain of command or to an
alternative agency. (AR 600-20, para D-1.a(2))
EORs/EOAs*. EOAs* are the commanders’ representatives who
are tasked to understand and articulate DoD and Army policies
concerning equal opportunity. EOAs* are trained to recognize
sexual harassment in both overt and subtle forms. EOAs* also
recommend appropriate remedies to eliminate and prevent
sexual harassment. EOAs* continuously assess the command
climate through formal surveys, interviews, facilitated small
group discussions, and accessibility to the unit. EOAs* and
unit EORs* assist commanders in resolving sexual harassment
complaints. EOAs* also conduct follow-up assessments of all
formal sexual harassment complaints. (AR 600-20, para 6-3k.)
Commander. The commander is responsible for promoting a
climate of dignity and respect for all personnel by investigating
and rectifying sexual harassment complaints brought to his or
her attention. The commander is also responsible for establishing
and implementing a plan to protect the complainant, any
named witnesses, and the subject of the investigation from acts
of reprisal. Commanders may conduct inquiries personally or
appoint investigating officers. The commander of any Soldier
under investigation must flag that Soldier upon notification that
the Soldier is under investigation. (AR 600-20, para D-4; AR 600-
8-2, para 2-2)
Investigating Officer. The investigating officer is responsible
for investigating formal sexual harassment complaints. The
investigating officer determines to the maximum extent possible
13 Version 1.1, OCT 13
*Note: In accordance with ALARACT 007/2012, many units have already transitioned
responsibility for the handling of sexual harassment cases from EOAs to SHARP personnel.
Remaining units will make the transition upon issuance of Pending Army Directive
XX-2013 and AR 600-20 rapid revision.
what actually occurred, assesses the validity of allegations made
by the complainant, advises the commander of any leadership
or management concerns that might contribute to perceptions
of sexual harassment, and recommends appropriate corrective
actions. Prior to initiating the investigation, the investigating
officer must coordinate with the staff judge advocate’s (SJA)
office and EOA*. (AR 600- 20, para D-6)
Alternative Organizations. Although EOAs* are specifically
trained to handle sexual harassment cases, complainants may
contact a member of their unit chain of command or any of the
organizations listed below for additional assistance.
• Chaplain: Serves as an advisor to the command
on all religious matters and provides guidance on
religious practices, family and marital counseling,
and other secular or non-secular services.
• Provost Marshal (PM)/Director of Emergency Services (DES):
Responsible for receiving and investigating violations of
the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) which are
criminal in nature. PM/DES will promptly refer all crimes
or incidents falling within U.S. Army Criminal Investigation
Command (USACIDC) investigative responsibility to
the appropriate USACIDC element for investigation.
• OSJA: Responsible to the commander on all legal matters.
The OSJA serves as an advisor in litigating criminal
charges and prosecuting Soldiers for criminal offenses
and may receive complaints about sexual harassment.
• Inspector General (IG): Responsible for monitoring and
inspecting command functions that are essential to
mission effectiveness and combat readiness. The IG’s office
Sexual Harassment
is
or formal complaint of sexual harassment and can submit
the complaint to a member of the chain of command or to an
alternative agency. (AR 600-20, para D-1.a(2))
EORs/EOAs*. EOAs* are the commanders’ representatives who
are tasked to understand and articulate DoD and Army policies
concerning equal opportunity. EOAs* are trained to recognize
sexual harassment in both overt and subtle forms. EOAs* also
recommend appropriate remedies to eliminate and prevent
sexual harassment. EOAs* continuously assess the command
climate through formal surveys, interviews, facilitated small
group discussions, and accessibility to the unit. EOAs* and
unit EORs* assist commanders in resolving sexual harassment
complaints. EOAs* also conduct follow-up assessments of all
formal sexual harassment complaints. (AR 600-20, para 6-3k.)
Commander. The commander is responsible for promoting a
climate of dignity and respect for all personnel by investigating
and rectifying sexual harassment complaints brought to his or
her attention. The commander is also responsible for establishing
and implementing a plan to protect the complainant, any
named witnesses, and the subject of the investigation from acts
of reprisal. Commanders may conduct inquiries personally or
appoint investigating officers. The commander of any Soldier
under investigation must flag that Soldier upon notification that
the Soldier is under investigation. (AR 600-20, para D-4; AR 600-
8-2, para 2-2)
Investigating Officer. The investigating officer is responsible
for investigating formal sexual harassment complaints. The
investigating officer determines to the maximum extent possible
13 Version 1.1, OCT 13
*Note: In accordance with ALARACT 007/2012, many units have already transitioned
responsibility for the handling of sexual harassment cases from EOAs to SHARP personnel.
Remaining units will make the transition upon issuance of Pending Army Directive
XX-2013 and AR 600-20 rapid revision.
what actually occurred, assesses the validity of allegations made
by the complainant, advises the commander of any leadership
or management concerns that might contribute to perceptions
of sexual harassment, and recommends appropriate corrective
actions. Prior to initiating the investigation, the investigating
officer must coordinate with the staff judge advocate’s (SJA)
office and EOA*. (AR 600- 20, para D-6)
Alternative Organizations. Although EOAs* are specifically
trained to handle sexual harassment cases, complainants may
contact a member of their unit chain of command or any of the
organizations listed below for additional assistance.
• Chaplain: Serves as an advisor to the command
on all religious matters and provides guidance on
religious practices, family and marital counseling,
and other secular or non-secular services.
• Provost Marshal (PM)/Director of Emergency Services (DES):
Responsible for receiving and investigating violations of
the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) which are
criminal in nature. PM/DES will promptly refer all crimes
or incidents falling within U.S. Army Criminal Investigation
Command (USACIDC) investigative responsibility to
the appropriate USACIDC element for investigation.
• OSJA: Responsible to the commander on all legal matters.
The OSJA serves as an advisor in litigating criminal
charges and prosecuting Soldiers for criminal offenses
and may receive complaints about sexual harassment.
• Inspector General (IG): Responsible for monitoring and
inspecting command functions that are essential to
mission effectiveness and combat readiness. The IG’s office
Sexual Harassment
is
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SGT Jim Arnold
CSM Richard StCyr - thank you This program must of started after I got out. Kept seeing SHARP being thrown around but had no clue what it was
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CSM Richard StCyr
SFC Kelly Fuerhoff - The harassment piece posted as separate. Couldn't get the flyer converted from PDF to JPEG.
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