Posted on Oct 12, 2017
How can I get promoted past stagnate leadership?
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I'm a E5 12N whom wants to get promoted. I'm staying in for a minimum of 20 years (unless something faults my plan), and I'm trying to climb the ranks the best I can while I'm in. Why settle for less?
The problem I currently have, is the vast majority of E6's in my MOS don't want a promotion past E6. They like that they have as little responsibility as possible, but enough rank to do what they want. Hence why they don't want to get promoted past E6. They'll do what they can to make sure they don't get a promotion. When the slots do become available, they're back logged for the past few years. I've completed SSD2, I turned in my paperwork for my Bachelors degree, I make sure I get a 230 or better on my PT test, and a 34 or better on weapons qualification. I attend any schools I get a chance to, and I make sure I'm doing my best with my soldiers as possible to stand out.
Any help, as a plan of attack on how to surpass this scenario, would be greatly appreciated.
The problem I currently have, is the vast majority of E6's in my MOS don't want a promotion past E6. They like that they have as little responsibility as possible, but enough rank to do what they want. Hence why they don't want to get promoted past E6. They'll do what they can to make sure they don't get a promotion. When the slots do become available, they're back logged for the past few years. I've completed SSD2, I turned in my paperwork for my Bachelors degree, I make sure I get a 230 or better on my PT test, and a 34 or better on weapons qualification. I attend any schools I get a chance to, and I make sure I'm doing my best with my soldiers as possible to stand out.
Any help, as a plan of attack on how to surpass this scenario, would be greatly appreciated.
Posted in these groups: 
Leadership
Promotion BoardStructured Self Development (SSD)
Promotions
Toxic Leadership
Leadership Promotion BoardStructured Self Development (SSD) Promotions Toxic Leadership
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 15
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Have you applied for Drill Sergeant or Recruiter duty. Those have consistently been identified as positive enhancers for the construction MOS's.
230 on the APFT is low for Engineers or at least when I was serving it was; getting it up to a 290 or better is where it breaks you out from the herd.
34 used to be a Sharp Shooter which is middle of the pack, if it's not an Expert it's not a positive discriminator.
Compete for Audie Murphy, NCO of the year, and train your Soldiers to achieve Soldier of the year.
Earth Movers have been notorious for slow promotions to SSG for as long as I can remember but break out from SFC through CSM at a quicker pace than the Vertical MOS's.
Your PSG or 1SG should be able to tell you what a high speed 21N looks like, SQD LDRs are hit or miss. If you're not confident that you'll get the correct picture;
Contact the Engineer Personnel Development Office at [login to see] ext 3-6137, they can tell you if there are any hot assignments that are considered career enhancing or direct you to an updated career profile of what a high performing 21N looks like in todays force.
230 on the APFT is low for Engineers or at least when I was serving it was; getting it up to a 290 or better is where it breaks you out from the herd.
34 used to be a Sharp Shooter which is middle of the pack, if it's not an Expert it's not a positive discriminator.
Compete for Audie Murphy, NCO of the year, and train your Soldiers to achieve Soldier of the year.
Earth Movers have been notorious for slow promotions to SSG for as long as I can remember but break out from SFC through CSM at a quicker pace than the Vertical MOS's.
Your PSG or 1SG should be able to tell you what a high speed 21N looks like, SQD LDRs are hit or miss. If you're not confident that you'll get the correct picture;
Contact the Engineer Personnel Development Office at [login to see] ext 3-6137, they can tell you if there are any hot assignments that are considered career enhancing or direct you to an updated career profile of what a high performing 21N looks like in todays force.
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SGT (Join to see)
Realistically, a 290 is impossible for me. I'm in great shape, but the best run I've ever done is a 15:18 2 mile. The most I've ever done on situps is 67. However, I can max the pushups in under 1 minute, hitting the full up/down range of motion. If this gives you an indication of my body type.
The majority of PT scores I see from soldiers in my unit hover around the 200-210. I'm generally, not in my pay grade, in the top 10% of PT scores at my unit. I see a lot of doughy soldiers these days in higher ranks, and they just do the minimums with a few points over, because they don't care to push themselves anymore.
I don't wish to go full time military, because I make more on the civilian side than I do military. I'm on track for a nice fat retirement nest egg between the military retirement and civilian 401k. However, my work does pay me for up to 14 days of military orders, of my regular pay, per set of orders, which is really nice. So this is why I take any class or course I get offered or I see that comes up.
Thanks for the number, I'll give them a call and see if they can help with my current direction!
The majority of PT scores I see from soldiers in my unit hover around the 200-210. I'm generally, not in my pay grade, in the top 10% of PT scores at my unit. I see a lot of doughy soldiers these days in higher ranks, and they just do the minimums with a few points over, because they don't care to push themselves anymore.
I don't wish to go full time military, because I make more on the civilian side than I do military. I'm on track for a nice fat retirement nest egg between the military retirement and civilian 401k. However, my work does pay me for up to 14 days of military orders, of my regular pay, per set of orders, which is really nice. So this is why I take any class or course I get offered or I see that comes up.
Thanks for the number, I'll give them a call and see if they can help with my current direction!
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SFC (Join to see)
Great advice, CSM. Low APFT doesn't help, boards like Audie Murphy and Best Warrior are huge. Try a broadening assignment next.
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Mike Sanchez
The CSM has top notch advice on this one. Follow that lead as best you can and you'll make the grade.
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Bud, if you have your BA or BS, and promotion is what you are seeking at the moment, why have you not looked into OCS? Jump from your three little chevron to a gold bar and go from there.
The sad thing is that if NCOs are just going to be taking up slots in such a low density MOS there really isn't much you can do. Those people need to get out, get promoted, or get demoted... Or reclass, but you don't usually see E6s looking to reclass. Even if they want to, often times big army won't allow that.
I would say that OCS sounds like a solid plan for someone in your position.
The sad thing is that if NCOs are just going to be taking up slots in such a low density MOS there really isn't much you can do. Those people need to get out, get promoted, or get demoted... Or reclass, but you don't usually see E6s looking to reclass. Even if they want to, often times big army won't allow that.
I would say that OCS sounds like a solid plan for someone in your position.
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SGT (Join to see)
The military is a land mine of acronyms! We've got acronyms within acronyms, just waiting to surprise you!
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SGT Joseph Gunderson
SGT (Join to see) - Yes, and though I knew many of them, it has been a few years since I left and strangely enough the civilian world is not as big of fans of acronyms as the military lol
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Honestly my suggestion would be to find a new unit. Even though promotions up to E-4 are supposed to be automatic if you meet requirements, I still had issues getting promoted because of poor leadership who didn't want to do non-existent paperwork. You might like your unit which is something I truly understand, but unless you want to wait until they kick some of those E6s out for failure to advance (up or out) than that's my only suggestion.
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SGT (Join to see)
Yeah, I just changed my packet so I can accept slots across the state. I make enough civilian side, that driving across state once a month isn't a big deal.
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Either do a broadening assignment or transfer to a new unit/state with open slots.
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SGT (Join to see)
Sadly, I've started thinking about going this route. I opened up my promotion packet to any unit in my state.
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I knew one fellow years ago who shared that sentiment. There were three of us who were all (Navy) E-5's. We chummed around doing things together. We were stationed on Adak in the Aleutian chain where there simply was not much to do when off duty. "Willy" often expressed his not desiring promotion to E-6 and the accompanying increased responsibility. The other E-5 and I tried to persuade him otherwise, but I imagine he never advanced in paygrade. The other E-5 and I advanced at about the same time and were both commissioned officers in the same year group.
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SGT (Join to see)
Nice. Yeah, I've always tried telling others to push themselves. Being as I'm no stranger to the GI Bill and using State/Federal tuition assistance, I've pushed as many soldiers in my unit as possible into going to college, and to do the online courses that go towards promotion/retirement points. I don't get why people get in for a few years, then bail. What was the point?
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LCDR (Join to see)
You absolutely "Spot On", SGT Stamm. It does take a great determination and much self discipline to stick with accomplishing one's goals, but in the long run it's usually worthwhile. Then the "quitters" wonder how the winners did it.
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Hi SGT,
I am going to second the CSM in my response to you, because your best Advisor in service is your 1SG and your CSM. Even commissioned officers turn to these expert leaders for advice on enlisted matters.
Having stated the above, I suggest that you ease out of the situation by becoming a Drill Sarge or a Recruiter; get to know leaders in USAREC and PERSCOM (two ends of the Bermuda Triangle), after which promotions and assignments are at your fingertips.
Your PT score must improve, since 220 is minimum; qualify as an Expert in weapons. These are basics.
Combat Engineers are fit and overcome any obstacle, without accepting failure to accomplish the mission. Make PT and Weapons Qual your mission to achieve Expert in both.
God Bless!
I am going to second the CSM in my response to you, because your best Advisor in service is your 1SG and your CSM. Even commissioned officers turn to these expert leaders for advice on enlisted matters.
Having stated the above, I suggest that you ease out of the situation by becoming a Drill Sarge or a Recruiter; get to know leaders in USAREC and PERSCOM (two ends of the Bermuda Triangle), after which promotions and assignments are at your fingertips.
Your PT score must improve, since 220 is minimum; qualify as an Expert in weapons. These are basics.
Combat Engineers are fit and overcome any obstacle, without accepting failure to accomplish the mission. Make PT and Weapons Qual your mission to achieve Expert in both.
God Bless!
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SGT (Join to see)
34 is my worst ever, I generally get a 36-37 and have made 38 twice.
180 is the minimum, I usually get mid 230's, only once over 240.
180 is the minimum, I usually get mid 230's, only once over 240.
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CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
Like I said, it's not about what you did (in the past); rather, it's about what you can achieve moving forward. Expert is what you need to prove to none other than yourself.
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SGT Tony Clifford
Sir, he's a 12N (horizontal engineer). A combat engineer is 12B. There's a world of difference between the two. The low PT score is proof of that.
To the point of NCOs not wanting SFC, I completely understand the compulsion. There are only 4 SFC slots per company so in a battalion, you're looking at maybe 12 or 16 spots on the line. Most SFCs end up in an S-shop for a period of time and the higher you go the less likely you are to be in an administrative role. E-8s only really have soldiers while they're occupying a 1SG position. E-9s only while they're in a CSM slot. To many, that's undesirable. As an officer you should understand. You only get a couple of years in a platoon, then if you're lucky you get to be XO while you wait for a commander slot to open. Then after company commander, you're in an S shop until you're a battalion XO and finally a BC. This pattern repeats at BDE, division and Corps levels.
To the point of NCOs not wanting SFC, I completely understand the compulsion. There are only 4 SFC slots per company so in a battalion, you're looking at maybe 12 or 16 spots on the line. Most SFCs end up in an S-shop for a period of time and the higher you go the less likely you are to be in an administrative role. E-8s only really have soldiers while they're occupying a 1SG position. E-9s only while they're in a CSM slot. To many, that's undesirable. As an officer you should understand. You only get a couple of years in a platoon, then if you're lucky you get to be XO while you wait for a commander slot to open. Then after company commander, you're in an S shop until you're a battalion XO and finally a BC. This pattern repeats at BDE, division and Corps levels.
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My advice is to consider another MOS or another unit. I see you're in the ArNG, so I'm guessing you are tied to a unit-vacancy situation, that is, you can't get promoted unless there is a vacancy in your unit in your MOS for you at the next higher grade. My daughter ran into this in the Air Guard. She worked a transfer from a Supply Squadron to a PRIME BEEF unit in the same AFSC (supply clerk). In the PRIME BEEF unit she had an opportunity to move up to E-5. She also enjoyed the deployments for training, what she described as "camping trips with the boys." If you can pull something like this off you might keep your current MOS, but have to drill at a different location. Changing to a hard-to-fill MOS might allow you to "beat the system" also. This might require drill at a different location in a new unit.
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SGT (Join to see)
I'm on the promotion list. E5 to E6 promotions are back logged (call MO AR NG and you'll see I'm not bullshitting you). We have 3 E5's at my unit, in E6 slots, that can't get pinned because they have not been to ALC. Currently, they're about to get frocked as our unit is in a readiness state for possible deployment.
When I've had E6's actively talk to me about not wanting to get promoted, and competing with others who have been E5 longer than I, and were already at the top of the promotion list before I was, it makes it hard to surpass them, when they've already accepted E6 slots.
I've not blamed anyone, I'm looking for answers as to find away around the issue. Finding answers and looking for ways to advance is not a failure.
When I've had E6's actively talk to me about not wanting to get promoted, and competing with others who have been E5 longer than I, and were already at the top of the promotion list before I was, it makes it hard to surpass them, when they've already accepted E6 slots.
I've not blamed anyone, I'm looking for answers as to find away around the issue. Finding answers and looking for ways to advance is not a failure.
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Focus on Education. Take on line courses and apply for every leadership school available. Do your job the best you can do and do extra when not asked.
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SGT (Join to see)
Name a course, worth promotion points in AKO. I have it completed. I also have my Bachelors, with my official transcripts uploaded in iPerms. However, I will continue doing AKO courses from the eLearning portal, as it goes towards retirement points.
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Transfer to the USAR, more upward mobility for those who want it. There are also AGR positions you can apply for. If you're high speed, it will be noticed.
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SGT (Join to see)
I make way more civilian side, than in the military unless I go officer.
However, this brings me back to another question, as to why I don't go officer. Doing the math, given I have student loans using the SLRP (student loan repayment program), I would lose money going officer at this point in time.
However, this brings me back to another question, as to why I don't go officer. Doing the math, given I have student loans using the SLRP (student loan repayment program), I would lose money going officer at this point in time.
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SFC (Join to see)
In that case, I would honestly transfer to the USAR for the simple fact that there are more positions and thus more upward mobility. I'm not sure where you are located, but here's one example: If you are in the SCNG, you are only considered for promotions to units within the SCNG. If you are in the USAR and at a unit in SC, based on the distance you are willing to travel, you could be promoted into a unit located in FL, GA, SC, AL, TN, KY, NC, etc. Just some food for thought.
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