Posted on Jun 10, 2019
LTC Hardware Test Engineer
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I've seen several people here with the "R" by their name and their rank is E5 or E6. I'm not a rank snob but I wonder how it is possible to stay in for 20 years and never make it beyond E6? I made E5 in the USAF in under 4 years.
Posted in these groups: Star Promotions
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Lt Col Jim Coe
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So many possibilities! Up-or-Out hasn't always been what it is now. In the Air Force not-so-long-ago one could retire as an E-6 at 20--may be the same today. Then there's medical retirement. There are career field limitations that might keep a person from getting beyond E-6 in 20 years. A very small career field with few openings for advancement could greatly limit opportunity.
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LTC Hardware Test Engineer
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I asked because I know several people who were kicked out after 10, 12, 15 years because they couldn't get promoted. Just curious how/why some were able to stay in and retire as E5/E6 and some were put out.
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Lt Col Charlie Brown
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Some of my troops made it to the "protected zone" of 17 years and were allowed to continue and retiree. Then there was an opportunity for some people to early retire at reduced retired pay in the 1990s.
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LTC Hardware Test Engineer
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I still don't get it. E4 is automatic after 24 months. I have a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that people can spend another 15-18 years in the military and only get promoted once or twice.
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SSG Robert Perrotto
SSG Robert Perrotto
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LTC (Join to see) - the thing is, some of these E-4's had their limbs blown off or other disabilities due to combat. would be kinda shitty if the Military just gave these heroes a "thank you for your service, sorry you don't have any legs" sendoff. So the military came up with a system that if your service related disqualifying disabilities reached a 30% rating, then you were going to be retired, that does not mean you draw retirement pay, it means that you will retain the important aspect of healthcare, access to post medical facilities, and post privileges.
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SSgt Owner/Operator
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LTC (Join to see) - I've seen your state several times on this thread "E4 is automatic at 24 months". Is this an Army thing? Is it true for all branches of all services? Was it true over our history?

Took me 3 years to make E4. That was at my 4-1/2 year mark and being passed over 6 times. I had to fight for my rank, get the records corrected to reflect all of my points and to get my Company CO's support as well. Making E5 took just over 6 years and I did not pin those on until my 7th year. (I attached my profile page view of my promotions.)

USMC, circa 1980s-1990s. You were promoted within your overall MOS. If the DoD said 10% can be promoted, each MOS got to promote 10%. Think what happens when you are in a glutted MOS like Communications. It was a slow promote MOS by its very nature. And all but my last 2 years was during the Cold War.

I show up to USMC Birthday Balls still. I enter the room with my SSgt stripes and 3 service stripes (4 years apiece). I mingle with SSgts who have 1 service stripe! (4 - 7.99 years) Should I be upset? Envious? Pissed? Grateful? I've felt, even but briefly, all of those emotions. But then, my experience was in a different environment and time. War tends to create a fast promote atmosphere.

Last note: R also denotes Reserves. USMCR = reserves. USMC(R) = retired.
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LTC Hardware Test Engineer
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It's an Army thing. Unless you screw the pooch, you are going to make E4 in 2 years. I was enlisted USAF in the 80s and E4 was 30 months and you could get it BTZ at 24. I wasn't trying to insult anyone, just was curious because I know several people who were put out of the military as E5s because they could not get promoted to E6.
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SSgt Owner/Operator
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No insult here sir. I am clueless when it comes to some of the Army terms and practices. :)

My first unit (1984) I met a Sgt who was a Korean War Vet. Over 30 years since he enlisted. I never asked him why he was (still) a Sgt.
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LTC Hardware Test Engineer
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SSgt (Join to see) - When I attended MP officer advance course in 2005, there was a CPT in our class who had been a helicopter pilot during Vietnam. Dude was pushing 60 and we all wondered why he was even in the class since he was going to hit MRD before he was eligible for MAJ but none of us had the guts to ask him. lol
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SSgt Owner/Operator
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Ain't that true with most really old salts LTC (Join to see)?! :)
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1SG Vet Technician
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That can be possible, and fairly common in the Reserve /NG conpnents, especially for low density MOSs
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SGT(P) Crystal Marie Gray-Wallace
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Also, every MOS is different, just because you ranked up quickly doesn't mean this is possible with every other MOS in the Army.
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CW3 MH-60 Pilot
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Very true!
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SGT Gary Springer
SGT Gary Springer
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That is true the army point system and board procedures often a soldier did not have enough points to be promoted unless they got a feild promotion.
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MSG Frank Kapaun
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My dad retired from the USAF in 1964 as an E5.
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MSG Gary Eckert
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As others have said some of it is driven by Medical Retirements. During the draw down in the 1980's 15 year retirement was offered in selected overstrength MOSs, since those MOSs were overstrength they had slower promotion rates meaning the retirees were lower in grade than their peers in other MOSs. At least in the Army, retention control points have varied over the years. For 2015 the last year I could find, the most popular retirement pay grade is E-7 with E-6 being the next most popular. In the Navy the pay grades were reversed with E-6 being the most popular and E-7 being the second most popular. This difference in the Navy is probably tied directly to the promotion tests. The Air Force shows almost twice as many E-7s retired as E-6s which most likely means they promote a higher percentage to E-7 than their sister services.
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CWO3 Us Marine
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Slow promoting MOS, broken time etc. not that unusual. Not very common for 20 years continuous.
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LTC Hardware Test Engineer
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I had a soldier when I was an MP company CO that made E7 in 8 years.
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CWO3 Us Marine
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MSgt Kurt S. - Happens a lot in avionics also. Then there are those from the Planet of ElMaCo, a.k.a. Elmacans. MOS 1142 in Engrs was frozen for Sgt for many years in 90's. Cpls on second hitch with 4-5 YIG. Had one in my Det for Baltic Challenge 97 in Estonia. Went to CP and asked BGen Mashburn (2d FSSG) if he'd promote a Cpl 1142 that had finally made it. He said sure because he was aware of their prom status. Held a Plt formation and he came down alone with me to promote him. All the brass's jaws were still hanging when we walked out of CP. He was a good CG (came up as 1302), but later died at Albany as MajGen. Heart I think.
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SSgt Owner/Operator
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Long term DIs are a super fast promote. For example, my Senior DI (SSgt) was in competition with a sister Platoon's Senior DI (SSgt). The kicker? When my Senior DI was a Cpl, on his first round as a DI he had a recruit that later went on to be a DI. Yep, you guessed it, same guy he was now competing with for final score.
1st Palce PFT Scores
1st Place Practical Knowledge Test Scores
2nd Place Close Order Drill - lost to his recruit, now Senior DI.
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SSG Robert Perrotto
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Edited >1 y ago
Well, seems someone has some sand in their nether region - votes down my comment then disables my ability to respond to his parting idiocy - Thank you for your service 1SG Furr. Your bravery in the face of internet words is truly something to be emulated. BTW - everything in my profile is verified by my 214 and ERB
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COL David Turk
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I can give one real life example.
When I joined my first unit in Germany (1977) after Engineer Officer basic, I immediately met our very personable and knowledgeable unit clerk, an E-6. Seems this E-6 had been enlisted, went to OCS, went to Vietnam (a couple of tours), where he ended up with a small plate in his head. Then the major RIF in the mid seventies, and he was given the choice, get out or stay in by reverting back to an E-6 (this was a fairly common option after RIFs). So he chose to stay in to get his twenty. He did a great clerk job when on duty, but he basically didn’t give a f**k about much else (resentment was the key operative there). Would often get drunk off hours, and one time it was enough to earn an article 15 and reduction in grade to E-5. So he retired as an E-5, but his retirement pay was as a Captain over 10 years (so we were told). I felt for him because he had given a lot to the Army prior to the RIF (had a lot of awards). But sometimes in life, you get screwed. And you have to get over it and move on. Again, speaking from personal experience, both in the military and in civilian life.
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