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I deployed in 1990 and returned in 1991. There were no re-adjustment training programs.
My son returned from Afghanistan a few months ago. I have witnessed and been following his division closely. It appears that there is a significant spike in DUI, substance abuse, domestic violence, and other disciplinary problems. Rather than work with the soldiers the command seems to just Chapter 14 and get rid of the soldier. This causes many good soldiers to lose access to benefits when they are returned to society. The punitive approach as well as lack of consistency is disturbing.
I welcome anyone who can shed some light on this issue.
My son returned from Afghanistan a few months ago. I have witnessed and been following his division closely. It appears that there is a significant spike in DUI, substance abuse, domestic violence, and other disciplinary problems. Rather than work with the soldiers the command seems to just Chapter 14 and get rid of the soldier. This causes many good soldiers to lose access to benefits when they are returned to society. The punitive approach as well as lack of consistency is disturbing.
I welcome anyone who can shed some light on this issue.
Posted in these groups: 
Transition
Transition
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 21
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Largely laws and their enforcement has changed. 25 years ago a dui might get you a ride home in a cop car, worst case a night in jail and a headache from the legal system. Now best case it's a career ender. I would also argue that the "everyone gets a trophy generation" has drastically reduced American's ability to take a setback in life, resiliency in modern terms. The military is also undergoing a significant downsizing causing commanders to have a need to get rid of the more undesirables rather than being forced to not re-enlist the good soldiers. When I was a commander I told my soldiers, I will never choose you to be kicked out, you will choose you, I merely process the paperwork.
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SGT Christina Wilder
I am not that old. I deployed young. I also worked in law enforcement when I got out. There are problems some due to milenial entitlement and equally leadership failure.
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LTC (Join to see)
SGT Christina Wilder , I agree, the leaders of today are not the famous leaders of yesterday. There are several causes for that but this is not the feed for that discussion.
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MSgt Marvin Kinderknecht
Makes sense. I know a guy who the CO got out of jail (don't remember the charge) and the next day he got his next stripe. Good old days. 51-72
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MSgt Marvin Kinderknecht
Right on Major. I remember General Sweeny (4 star head of TAC) speeding on the eperimiter road. He told the Air Policeman if this is all you have to do, I will find you a job. They were guarding bushes, trees etc.-You get the picture. I believe I mention this before. A 3 star said rules and regulations are guide lines. It it up to us as leaders as to how we want to apply them. MAKES SENSE TO ME.
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1) Form a board
2) Make assessments what went right and wrong
3) Collect all the possible solutions for what went wrong
4) Present it to the Chain of Command for evaluation and approval
5) Implement training to salvage good soldiers/military personnel
6) Assign sponsors if needed based on the individuals
2) Make assessments what went right and wrong
3) Collect all the possible solutions for what went wrong
4) Present it to the Chain of Command for evaluation and approval
5) Implement training to salvage good soldiers/military personnel
6) Assign sponsors if needed based on the individuals
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SGT Christina Wilder
I a utopic sense I agree. Fiscally the military is not going to make this kind of investment.
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I think all the resources are clear and defined when one is not in crisis mode however is crisis mode the help available gets lost in all the chaos. When a SM is self medicating and contemplating sucking on their 9mm chapter 14 is the last thing they are thinking about. As well approaching those in crisis in often not well received so getting the help on target is a problem as well. Having watched a friend spiral out of control this is not only an active status problem - as my friend was out for over a year before it began. I will say that being active does add a level that further complicates the problem. Kicking these guys and gals to the curb is just wrong.
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Punishing anyone, never works. Soldiers, Airmen, Marines, Sailors- have to be told what they did wrong; and shown HOW to do things right.
I don't recall any counseling being given to us before I got out; during the Cold War. Even in the Psychiatric Ward.
I came out of the Army with a disability. I have a 100% service-connected mental illness/stress disorder.
I became an alcoholic (Just wanted to numb myself) ; and smoked like a fiend.
That was 15 years ago. I have changed 1,000%. :)
(I stopped drinking, smoking and taking drugs; at least 15 years ago.) The trick is TO BE HIGH on LIFE.
In answer to the question: there should be re-adjustment training programs; for school (AA, BA, MA, PhD degrees- or even high school or the equivalent.)
There should be re-adjustment training programs for vocational schools
And there Definitely should be re-adjustment training programs for Jobs and Careers.
When one is in the military- one is told what to do- every step of the way.
After one is discharged, it's a zoo out here.
I even asked my father: what's important in life? He answered that "a lot of things are automatic."
I don't recall any counseling being given to us before I got out; during the Cold War. Even in the Psychiatric Ward.
I came out of the Army with a disability. I have a 100% service-connected mental illness/stress disorder.
I became an alcoholic (Just wanted to numb myself) ; and smoked like a fiend.
That was 15 years ago. I have changed 1,000%. :)
(I stopped drinking, smoking and taking drugs; at least 15 years ago.) The trick is TO BE HIGH on LIFE.
In answer to the question: there should be re-adjustment training programs; for school (AA, BA, MA, PhD degrees- or even high school or the equivalent.)
There should be re-adjustment training programs for vocational schools
And there Definitely should be re-adjustment training programs for Jobs and Careers.
When one is in the military- one is told what to do- every step of the way.
After one is discharged, it's a zoo out here.
I even asked my father: what's important in life? He answered that "a lot of things are automatic."
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SPC Margaret Higgins
MSgt Marvin Kinderknecht, thank you. Not at that time. Now YES. I DON'T know how I did it; come to think of it.
My father [a Federal Administrative Law Judge! :)! ] said to my step-mother that I had: "self-discipline and perseverance."
My father [a Federal Administrative Law Judge! :)! ] said to my step-mother that I had: "self-discipline and perseverance."
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MSgt Marvin Kinderknecht
Not a good answer from your dad. A doctor once asked my wife who was the most important person in your life. Of course she said I was. WRONG, you are the most important person in your life! She never forgot. Look in the mirror and say "I love you"--sometimes!!!
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Christina,
I am just about finished with a "Mandatory Military Separation Transition Program" I have been working on for six months. I would like to forward it to you when it's finished for your critique. My research has pointed to a very vague and elusive Program that is incredibly hard to sign up for. I think your son and all his brothers-in-arms could benefit from even half of my proposal.
I am an old Vietnam Veteran, Combat Medic, 25th Division. I have developed some good contacts in DC to get this type of program going. My email: [login to see]
I am just about finished with a "Mandatory Military Separation Transition Program" I have been working on for six months. I would like to forward it to you when it's finished for your critique. My research has pointed to a very vague and elusive Program that is incredibly hard to sign up for. I think your son and all his brothers-in-arms could benefit from even half of my proposal.
I am an old Vietnam Veteran, Combat Medic, 25th Division. I have developed some good contacts in DC to get this type of program going. My email: [login to see]
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Understand that 'readjustment training' may take several years to complete depending on the individual. It may not ever be completed.
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SGT Christina Wilder
Well I do not think that is a good reason. There are many more effective ways to downsize productively.
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MSgt Marvin Kinderknecht
Us Nam people feel the same way. People in the states are to far away to know or care. Now that it is getting closer to home-- Tennessee, the head shed still does not give a damn and that is a statement.
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SGT Christina Wilder
I agree. Leadership scolds me for advocating since my son is a single 22yo. When service members return from deployment they are not generally thinking about problem solving like before deployment. Young soldiers have young wives or are single, so when other family members step up to advocate, leadership pushes back. At least that is my experience.
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I am an MRT. This is the question that we are battling. The Army honestly thinks that it sunk a LOT of money into a program that is NOT working. I cannot argue it. Here is the problem, I can stand up in front of a group of people for 8 hours and teach MRT, or EO or SHAARP (yeah I have all three) and if the mind(s) I am teaching to are not open to the information, then it will do no good. Bottom line, we CAN'T improve it. We cannot improve it except to the people that are wanting to hear it. It is like FRG, my wife HATES the FRG, when I got hurt in Iraq, the first person she heard anything about it from was me when I called from Germany (I do not remember calling her). Her anger is directed towards the FRG. THEN, the commands that I have been in, cannot get support for it, so they make the meetings MANDATORY, so either I have to leave her and go, or I drag her to them. So there she is unresponsive, unwilling to listen and therefore it doesn't matter WHAT they say, she is NOT going to listen.
Redeployment training, if someone ONLY has on their mind, I cannot BELIEVE that they are making me sit through this, I just got back from a 6,9,12,15 month deployment and now I HAVE to listen to this, closed mind, NO hope of them listening.
Redeployment training, if someone ONLY has on their mind, I cannot BELIEVE that they are making me sit through this, I just got back from a 6,9,12,15 month deployment and now I HAVE to listen to this, closed mind, NO hope of them listening.
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I will say that I am returning from my third deployment. At this point the Army is doing a great job at this. When I deployed in 2003 it wasn't that way. But I don't even know what else the Army could do to make it better. I think we learned our lesson.
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SGT Christina Wilder
Maybe because you are a seasoned veteran. My son being very young, enlisted, and with a very weak command has not faired so well. The benefits of communions officers is that there is quite a bit more training and mentoring. If there are weak or selfish NCO's, junior enlisted have very little direction. JMO
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CPT (Join to see)
SGT Christina Wilder - That is on the unit and not the Army. We have lower enlisted soldiers that are going through the same process that I am. When I was a PFC on my first tour I didn't get anything like my younger soldiers are getting today. If an NCO in a unit is preventing this then he needs to address it with his 1SG or IG.
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SGT Christina Wilder
The entire Division seems to be of the same philosophy. I have been there several times, spoken to countless, and tried to give guidance to my soldier. He was so angry when he first got back. It was not just him it is other soldiers in other battalions and brigades. I network with veterans in AZ to help with tranditional guidance. Often I hear from veterans that at Ft. Campbell refer to that post as the "Career Ender". Soldiers are burned out, angry, and not properly motivated. That is a post if 50K service members. I am grateful you are being transitioned properly, keep in mind there are service members that lack advocates for them, have no family history of service to draw from family experiences, and then there are service members that should not have been allowed in. I.E. Bowe Betgdahl.
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CPT (Join to see)
SGT Christina Wilder - I have never heard that about Campbell. I have a lot of friends that have had great careers that were at Campbell. I don't think the 101st is that way.
I am not trying to be harsh or critical of anyone but the soldiers of today aren't what they think they are. Now a days we have to spoon feed a lot of them. Sometimes if they feel like no one cares about them. But they have to figure out that they are in charge of their career. I managed my career from the start. I was in a support battalion as an infantryman. That could be a career ender. I didn't care what they said. I moved on to bigger and better things. What is dangerous is that a culture in a unit can go to the wayside. I think this is what may be happening. But to say that no in the 101 cares about the lower enlisted soldiers is outrageous. I have heard the same from ever unit in the Army.
I will say I had a chance to speak with a MG about situations like this. He said that soldiers will blame their company and companies will blame their battalion and battalions will blame their Brigade for everything that is wrong. But what is wrong is that who is there trying to fix it.
If something is wrong there is the IG. I think some perspective would help with this. I went from PFC to SSG then commissioned. I will say that when I was a PFC I didn't realize the big picture and later I realized things were not really that bad.
I am not trying to be harsh or critical of anyone but the soldiers of today aren't what they think they are. Now a days we have to spoon feed a lot of them. Sometimes if they feel like no one cares about them. But they have to figure out that they are in charge of their career. I managed my career from the start. I was in a support battalion as an infantryman. That could be a career ender. I didn't care what they said. I moved on to bigger and better things. What is dangerous is that a culture in a unit can go to the wayside. I think this is what may be happening. But to say that no in the 101 cares about the lower enlisted soldiers is outrageous. I have heard the same from ever unit in the Army.
I will say I had a chance to speak with a MG about situations like this. He said that soldiers will blame their company and companies will blame their battalion and battalions will blame their Brigade for everything that is wrong. But what is wrong is that who is there trying to fix it.
If something is wrong there is the IG. I think some perspective would help with this. I went from PFC to SSG then commissioned. I will say that when I was a PFC I didn't realize the big picture and later I realized things were not really that bad.
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