Posted on May 6, 2014
SSgt Gregory Guina
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It seems to me that many young service members get married just to get out of the barracks. They see this as a quality of life issue and to be honest I can see their point. What should the DoD do to make barracks life better? I for one would prefer to see barracks that were more like an apt vice a dorm room especially for the more seasoned or higher ranks. Always having another person in your room can be frustrating as sometimes you just want to get away. By keeping young Marines in the barracks could cut down on many of the problems that as leaders have to deal with when a young immature individual tries to live a lifestyle that they are not ready for.
Posted in these groups: Bah calculator BAHRings MarriageEga Marine Corps
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Responses: 36
SFC Stephen P.
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Your options are to either make government housing competitive with the civilian market, or remove the incentive to acquire dependents.

I vote provide BAH to all members based only on grade and market rates (not family status) and transition all billeting to a command independent agency.
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SFC Stephen P.
SFC Stephen P.
10 y
Right on the first. I believe the differential pay is the prime motivator of these "contract marriages". When you provide incentives, it influences behavior.

Further, it is just plain wrong to treat our single members differently just because their personal relationships aren't certified by the state. Respect them and provide for them based on their military merits, not their social standing. My wife is my responsibility, not the Army's.

For the second, it is my wish to remove billeting from the command, not the installation. It may be advantageous to move it all to local economy, but that should be determined locally.

I can see a number of on installation housing models that could be viable. Whether it is DOD, NAF, or contractor managed is irrelevant, so long we remove unit leadership from the management.

The heavy command presence in the barracks is a direct result of command ownership of the barracks. Remove that ownership, and the command will be forced to treat single members the same as the married. Combined with the dependent indifferent BAH, we have then removed the military incentive to marry.

Ideally, I would allow the member to choose the housing that meets their needs, and charge them fair value for it. I cannot comprehend why two members should pay different rents (in the form of removed or allotted BAH) for identical lodging.
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SSgt Gregory Guina
SSgt Gregory Guina
10 y
I do liek the idea of taking ownership away from the commands. This might make living in the barracks more palatable if the resodents don't have to worry about every little thing that happens in thier home being brought to work.
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Cpl Westin Sandberg
Cpl Westin Sandberg
10 y
SFC, one of the problems I see with this idea, as far as the whole BAH thing is this; the reason our brothers and sisters in arms get more money for living out on town/having dependents, is the fact that once you live out on the town you no longer receive "free" chow hall or boarding, that money is instead given to you (what was being withheld for living in the barracks and eating at the chow hall) and then of course you receive more to help care for your dependents.
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SGT Infantryman
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7 y
Couldnt agree more. Equal Opportunity should apply to single soldiers just as much as married
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SSG Chris Cherry
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Honestly, I wouldn't get married to get out of the barracks. However, that doesn't mean that I find barracks life to be substandard.

I miss having carpet, a couch, my dogs, a stove, an oven, a bathtub, a garage...do I need to go on?

I also find it to be EXTREMELY insulting to have to have a fellow E5 come to inspect my barracks. I've stayed in seedy motels in atlantic city that are more accommodating that the barracks I currently live in. Seriously, no stove? No oven? I technically can't even have a coffee maker.

So yeah, fix this crap and I'll have no problem living in the barracks and not getting BAH. E-6 is a $1700 pay raise if you're a single E-5. Think about that one for a second.
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SFC Student
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10 y
Yep... Especially the pay raise...
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PO3 Account Management Specialist
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Edited 10 y ago
Simple..... don't pay BAH based on dependents. This should not be an incentive. I understand that the military has to have a BASE pay regardless of where in the world you are stationed, but that BASE PAY stretches differently in areas where cost of living is more expensive. Case in point: $45K where I live now is equivalent to $62K in San Diego CA. Therefore, if I lived in the absolute cheapest cost of living area EVER, and was making 45K, and the military uprooted me and moved me to San Deigo, then they need to give me an extra $17K per year for cost of living adjustment..... just to have the same lifestyle as before.

I don't care how many kids you have. Your choice to pop 'em out. You need to find a way to feed them and put a roof over their head on the salary you make. It's complete horsecrap that the military pays more for dependents. In the civilian world, my employer doesn't give two fiddle farts about weather I have dependents or not. They pay me a salary and it's my duty to use that salary wisely. The military makes it entirely too easy for Joe Numbskull to go find a bride and/or a baby, (whether he wants one or not) so he can get more money.

So.... back to the original question, how do you prevent young service members from getting married to receive BAH? Don't make BAH based on dependents. Make BAH based on time in service AND rank. E-4+ over 4 years in the service is when you should become eligible for benefits. By that time, you've had time to grow up, and if you were "really" in love before then, then you were forced to make it work on the base pay. And maybe ol' wifey boo needs to not be a stay at home and go get a job to make things work rather than sitting high on the hog on her E-nothing husband's BAH.
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Lt Col Instructor Navigator
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>1 y
On the other hand, MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca , your civilian world counterparts do not, on a general rule, have to leave their families behind for 6-12 months at a time, nor do they have to move their families across the country, or out of it, on short notice.
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Pvt Richard Hy
Pvt Richard Hy
>1 y
Sorry MAJ Bob... I have to agree w/ Capt verify... you cannot compare treatment of active duty and civilian, it just does not equal out Sir. Don't like your civi status, quit and find another with better pay/benies.... not so in service
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PO3 Account Management Specialist
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>1 y
I still cannot believe that so many of you think it's completely appropriate to encourage stupid life decisions with monetary gain that otherwise may not have happened at "that particular point in time" by "that particular service member" in "that particular situation" if monetary gain were not an incentive. YES, some people are reeeeeeeeeeeeeally in loooooooove and going to get married, have babies, find a way to make it work, and really work hard at it because that's what a real marriage takes. I still think it's completely inappropriate, and negligent of taxpayer dollars of the military to use this tactic as part of the benefits package. I never said don't pay BAH. I agree in the concept of BAH, but I would be more supportive of "equal rights" of BAH based on location, rank and time in service. Pvt Pissant with 14 days in the military (yes, I'm exaggerating for effect, duh) with 3 already and a 4th on the way and a wife who can't even legally drink yet is a recipe for disaster. But it's all good because the dependent BAH is taking care of wifey boo and the kids at home.
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Cadet 2LT (Pre-Commission)
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4 y
MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca

Sir, a lot of professional companies, will pay to move your family....
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How can we keep young service members from getting married just to receive BAH?
PO2 Tony Casler
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The services incentivize marriage because it is a powerful retention tool. Social and financial pressures within military culture push young SMs to marry and have kids in order to escape the QOL issues involved in barracks/shipboard life and to supplement their pay. What they don't realize is that the extra pay is insufficient to fully cover the extra costs of family life, especially with a spouse that more often than not stays at home and does not make a financial contribution to the family. Over the course of an enlistment the young SM is likely to amass debts for vehicles, credit cards, personal loans, etc. in an attempt to make ends meet and maintain a comfortable lifestyle. Separating is a recipe for instant poverty in such cases, leaving reenlistment as their only viable option. If they are lucky enough to be in a rating/MOS that qualifies they get a bonus that helps to wipe out the last four years of debt, only to start the cycle anew when the bills start piling up and the next kid comes along.

Why would the services want to fix a system that meets their needs so perfectly?
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SSgt Randy Saulsberry
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This is an easy one to solve and it has nothing to do with DOD. We need to quit treating Marines that live in the barracks like trash. Yeah the barracks are government property but when u live in them you view your room as your home. So how would u like it if someone just came to your house or apt lookin through your stuff multiple times a week. Barging in your room just to do random quality of life checks. Having you stay at work late because they're married: so their off time is more important than yours? Punishing every marine at the barracks because a few did somethin stupid over the weekend.
All this does is create animosity towards your unit and the Corps. The Marines, in their own ways, will rebel against it. This typically means behavioral issues.
There are many ways to get through to your Marines but disturbing their home life as way to get though is probably the most unproductive way of going about it. I've been in since 1999, and been in 5 different units in 3 different states. I have never done a quality of life check on my Marines, I have never punished them by messing with their home life, but the most important thing I HAVE NEVER HAD A MARINE FAIL A ROOM INSPECTION, AND I HAVE NEVER HAD TO CHARGE A MARINE!
Explain clearly to your subordinates what you expect out of them and hold them to that standard.
Everybody needs a place of relaxation and generally that's your home. So a junior Marine will be stressed at work, it's a part of life, but then they can't even go home and relax because you mess with them there as well. So what's the easiest way to get that relaxation, CONTRACT MARRIAGE. And with that comes $300+ for food and $800+ for housing extra a month. Every contract marriage I heard of or knew of (we all did when we were at the bottom of the totem pole) was for one of two reasons 1. To get away from the craziness of the barracks or 2. They were homosexual, and that was the only way to get privacy with their loved one.
all we have to do is stop messing with them at the barracks And I bet there would b a drastic drop in contract marriages
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SSgt Gregory Guina
SSgt Gregory Guina
>1 y
SSgt Randy Saulsberry I think you have hit the nail on the head. I stay out of the barracks as longs as my Marines let me IE don't fail room inspection. I don't want my boss coming to my house so I don't go to theirs. I think if more people thought like this Marines might consider getting married 3 months after meeting a BF or GF ins't the smartest idea there is.
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SSgt Randy Saulsberry
SSgt Randy Saulsberry
>1 y
Marines need to let go of this new age idea of "intrusive leadership". To me that's the dumbest thing ever. A SgtMaj doesn't have to be intrusive, nor are they, to let me know that my well being is high on his/her list. Instead Marine leaders need to actually care about their subordinates instead of doing the bare minimum and going through the motions, as most of them do (in my opinion). It's just leaders faking the funk to look good to the people above them. And anyone doing that has no idea of what leadership is and needs to read the leadership traits and principles and take those to heart
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SSgt Vlco
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I did not take the time to scroll through every response so I apologize if I am restating the obvious. I think that if the quality of life was upgraded, then it would solve at least 85% of the problem. Speaking only for the Marine Corps, you take 2-4 grown (wo)men and put them in a room the size of a walk-in closet. You give them metal racks, a wall locker, a "secretary," and a head to share. Add on top of that Thursday night field day, Thursday night room inspections, Friday morning room inspections, constant dropping in, and general complete lack of privacy, and you have a recipe for disaster. I get the concept of close quarters living. It "promotes" esprit de corps and bonds the young men and women together by constantly being around each other. What I do not get is why the conditions have to be so shitty? For example, the Marine barracks in Germany are all one to a room... They come with full size govt. issued racks, a closet, a medium sized fridge, a pantry area, a couch, a desk, and a ceiling fan. I can tell you that if I weren't married, I would not have a problem at all living in the barracks with those conditions. Or.... why not do it semi-dorm style? 4-5 small bedrooms with a common living room/small kitchenette?
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CDR Soraya Villacis
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AMEN! My Corpsmen had to live in the USMC barracks (E5 and below) unless they were married or had dependents (kids). It was so unfair for a grown man of 30+ to have room inspections, etc...I say, model barracks off the fine USAF, but then again, I know the USMC sees QOL as secondary to mission too often.
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GySgt Infantry Unit Leader
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10 y
No offense but I think that it unfair to think because some is 30+ years old they are not held to the same standard as other members of the same rank. If everyone is getting married to move out of the barracks that should tell you something about the environment in the barracks. I personally don't think you should be allowed to get married in the military (even though I am), but if you are not and are living in the barracks for free you should expect to be required to maintain your room to the standards of the military. Quit babying everybody its the military for Christ's sakes.
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SSgt Gregory Guina
SSgt Gregory Guina
>1 y
GySgt (Join to see) I don't agree with the no one gets married idea however I do think they need to implement some rules to keep the younger guys from getting married. Maybe not pay any extra benefits until they are Cpl w/ 4 years or a Sgt and require them to maintain and live in the barracks room until they reach those levels even if they are married.
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Cpl Christopher Bishop
Cpl Christopher Bishop
>1 y
How can this possibly ever be made "fair" for anyone, when clearly Singles living in Barracks work harder than Married "Home out in town" servicemembers and get less pay for it? How about Equal Pay for Equal Work? Especially in Combat Arms units...its always the "Slimy walruses who are Married" who have the most problems passing a PFT...and Im not even talking a 300 score...Im talking some of them can bare WALK at a 3 mile-in 24-minute pace. At least that's what I experienced. It has a lot to do with why a Good Corporal GOES HOME, which is really a disservice to the Armed Forces. If I as a Single servicemember give up the same or more sacrifices, I should be paid the same, and whether I choose to spend my money on a Wife and Child and their housing expenses, OR receive the same total pay and burn my dollars on a brand new Corvette and the insurance and gas for it...should be MY Business.

Singles are up far earlier, live in lesser building and privacy conditions, and all of that as it is. We put ourselves in the same "risk of life" jobs, we train harder half the time, we are better fit for duty, and some other guy gets paid MORE so he can do what with it? Pop out more babies in expectation Uncle Sam (which means you, me, and the rest of America) will pay him more for it?

This is the biggest reason I got out. I was a good Marine. I spent many years regretting it, as I loved the Corps. But its not even close to any sort of Equal Pay Equal Work situation. Well not when I was wearing the uniform anyway.

Not to mention....Weddings are still generally an element of Religon. Seperation of Church and State? Has never fully been. How about children which usually comes with Marriage ( or in too many cases are the REASON for the wedding...Oh Oh I gotta find a ring because I got her pregnant? This general irresponsibility isn't the business of the rest of us to have to PAY for. I suppose if I were that Captain in charge of those coming to me about getting Married, my first requirement would be "Demonstrate you can afford X Y or Z before you commit to anything...whether a wedding, a child, a new Corvette, whatever. I think its kinda "black and white" here...it is either the Captain's business what I do with my pay, or its not. And if it is, then all of it is.
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Lt Col Instructor Navigator
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>1 y
Really, SSgt Gregory Guina ? What about folks who are married before they enlist? No pay and benefits? No medical for the spouse who has been uprooted from their home, and forced to quit any job they may have had? Force them to live apart for four years so you can keep your "young soldier" under lock and key?
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Capt Jeff S.
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Edited 10 y ago
Used to be you had to get the Commanding Officer's permission to get married. Personally, I can't imagine forbidding someone to get married. You can give them your best counsel but ultimately they're adults and have to live with the choices they make. I can think of a few young Marines and Sailors that could have used counseling before getting married.

TRUE STORY: While a SSgt on instructor duty as an Avionics instructor at NAS Millington, a PO3 student comes up to the desk in the Avionics lab where I and an AT1 fellow instructor were assisting. He looked at me and then looked at the AT1 and I guess figured the AT1 was a little less threatening. So the AT1 looks at him and says, "What?"

Sheepishly, the student asks, "Petty Officer L-------, How long after you are with a girl and get her pregnant does it take for her to have the baby? The AT1 looks at me with this incredulous look as if to ask, "Did I really hear this?" and I just raised my eyebrows back at him and confirmed with a nod, "Yeah, he really said that...?!!" So after we picked our jaws up off the floor the AT1 responds, "Nine months, why?" The student responded, "Well I got married 6 months ago and my wife is expecting any day..." So the AT1 laughs and with a cheeky grin says, "Oh, so you didn't wait till you got married?" And we both looked at each other and laughed.

And then the student, looking a little bit flustered and embarrassed says, "No, we didn't do it before we got married." At that point you could hear a pin drop. My eyes got real wide and I just kept my mouth shut and shook my head in amazement. "Uh oh... Really?!!" Didn't have to say it; it was understood...

Turns out the student's wife of six months was a stripper and married him so she could have the baby on Uncle Sam's dime and help herself to his steady paycheck. At this point I got up and started walking around to the various stations to see if anyone needed help and let the AT1 counsel his junior in private.

It's cases like this that make you think, "Hey, maybe it would be a good idea if young servicemen DID get counseling from their Commanding Officer before tying the knot. It might also be useful for preventing contract marriages, which as far as I'm concerned (while legal) are unethical and constitute fraud, waste and abuse.
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LTC Paul Labrador
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Change the regs back to the way it used to be: you couldn't be married until you were an NCO. Besides, if the Army wanted you to have a spouse and dependents they would have been issued to you at CIF.... ;o)
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SSgt Gregory Guina
SSgt Gregory Guina
10 y
Sounds good to me. In fact I would take it a step further and make it Cpl w/ 4 yrs TIS or Sgt.
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Maj Ahron Oddman
Maj Ahron Oddman
10 y
There are many things we can do to dis-incentivize getting married for financial benefits.  All of my suggestions would come at a high cost, but is it higher than the cost associated with failed / strained marriages at a young, formative age.

-Make the living conditions on our bases much nicer.  At or above upper middle class standards.  People tend to want to hang out where they are comfortable (see Google's HQ for example).
-Give young Marines BAH without having to get married
-Require young Marines to live on base, as is current policy, but pay them 1/2 BAH in addition to letting them live on campus, therefore removing the incentive to get married just for the other 50%
-Have newly wedding housing on base and require young Marine newly weds to live on base for 12 months after one marriage.  No BAH for you.
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SSgt Gregory Guina
SSgt Gregory Guina
10 y
I agree with forcing them to live in base housing for sure.
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Lt Col Instructor Navigator
Lt Col (Join to see)
>1 y
So, at many of the bases I've been stationed, there's already a waiting list for base housing. Who do you propose we kick out of their houses when someone gets married so that we can force the newlyweds to live on base?
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Cpl Brett Wagner
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I may be wrong but are these kids really getting married to get BAH? These are the same young kids sleeping in mud holes and sand in 120+ degrees eating freeze dried crap (personally I think our C rations tasted better) not sleeping for days. I can't believe these are the same kids getting married to get BAH.

I know it can't work for sea going sailors. If this is a problem why would you need to do something special to make them happy in the barracks? If you take away any reason to complain they won't be servicemen & women any more. yes I'm laughing.
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Capt Jeff Quinn
Capt Jeff Quinn
10 y
These are all great comments- like I used to counsel the hardchargers in my platoon- I know you enjoy driving the latest car with the coolest wheels and having plenty of spending money in your pocket. That all goes away getting married on PFC, LCpl pay- all the headaches of making that dollar stretch, turning in the hot rod for family grocery getter and living in a trailer down by the river getting to work on fumes. Or worse yet, delivering pizzas at night to make ends meet. You sure you want to live that life until you make Sergeant? Sometimes it worked, sometimes the hardcharger knew better and I would hear about how making payments on that trailer was a hardship now and paying for groceries was getting tight. Sometimes they just had to learn the hard way. Regardless- I did drive by the barracks a few years ago on CLNC and the conditions looked a lot better. Midway Park outside of the gate looked like a pretty nice housing complex as well- 10x better than the squalor those poor Pvt-LCpl hardchargers had to endure through the '90's.
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Cpl Brett Wagner
Cpl Brett Wagner
10 y
Three years ago I attended a unit reunion it was held in Havelock, NC. My good friend who was smarter than I and retired from the Corps was there and took me on base for a tour. Between the barracks, new PX, and the new special services like the pool, gym etc. I would not have only stayed in the barracks but I would have stayed and retired. Honestly it is nicer than anything I can afford as a civilian. My one big complaint about the base is that they no longer have a hospital. When I was there the gym was a small room with a cement floor and weight equipment from the turn of the century but it worked.
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SSgt Gregory Guina
SSgt Gregory Guina
>1 y
Cpl Brett Wagner The base amenities have gotten very nice over the past 19 years that I have been in. The bad thing is Marines still complain that they don't get anything good.
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Cpl Brett Wagner
Cpl Brett Wagner
>1 y
SSgt Gregory Guina you know what they, a bitching Marine is a happy Marine.
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