Posted on Jul 5, 2016
How could I have handled a Soldier displaying gang affiliation on social media better?
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I came across a soldier who displayed gang affiliation on his Facebook page. Throwing up gang signs, flashing colors, etc. I messaged him on June 23rd and advised him that gang affiliation is illegal to service members, and that he should remove the posts and the pictures. On July 4th, I happened across the message I sent and noticed that he read it almost immediately after I sent it (time stamps were the same),but he did not reply, so I checked the profile to see if they had been taken down. They had not. I sought counsel with two DS (that were mutual friends) and was told to contact CID. So I filed a report with the MPIs, and provided them with the evidence. Did I handle this the right way? Or is there another way I should have handled it?
Affiliation
UCMJ
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 94
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Everything you did in that situation is wrong, that's fine. It's a learning experience. First of all what "colors" was this kid "flashing" and secondly what the in the h*ll do you know about colors and signs? should I be reporting you to CID BRO!?
Secondly... is this YOUR Soldier!? in the sense that you have actual counseling authority over him? Yeah. I didn't think so.
So why are you F**cking with this soldier? Did you report him to his own chain of command and let them handle the situation? No? Didn't think so. The bottom line is that it sounds to me like you're whoring out your social media for attention at the expense of everyone around you without regard to the fact that it's none of your business and you should let it alone. I don't know you so I can't say for certain but that's how it comes across to me. You're looking for attention at the expense of your battle buddies and you should knock it the hell off.
Secondly... is this YOUR Soldier!? in the sense that you have actual counseling authority over him? Yeah. I didn't think so.
So why are you F**cking with this soldier? Did you report him to his own chain of command and let them handle the situation? No? Didn't think so. The bottom line is that it sounds to me like you're whoring out your social media for attention at the expense of everyone around you without regard to the fact that it's none of your business and you should let it alone. I don't know you so I can't say for certain but that's how it comes across to me. You're looking for attention at the expense of your battle buddies and you should knock it the hell off.
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SPC (Join to see)
SFC Bernard Walko - Harsh, yes. But there's a reason behind that. Namely I've watched two soldiers have their careers destroyed as a result of social media posts relating to "gang activity." The "gang" in question was a motorcycle club consisting entirely of veterans, the majority of which were black, but not exclusively. Secondly, I knew an NCO many years ago who was an exceptional soldier, he was a member of the Latin Kings in his youth and had the 5 points crown tattooed across his back, which he kept to remind him where he came from and what an idiot he'd been. Got him kicked out when the Army cracked down on tattoos in general. Social media is a platform where sarcasm and silliness don't translate because it removes context and yet still society punishes individuals in various ways for things that should be viewed as "a dumb joke" or youthful ignorance using social media posts as an excuse. There's a big difference between making a joke in poor taste that your audience lacks the context to understand and something like posting a picture of yourself smoking weed for instance. My father was a school superintendent for many years and one of the things he used as a metric for hiring teachers and personnel was their social media page, specifically he wouldn't hire people who posted pictures of themselves drinking. I love my dad but I have also explicitly called him on hypocrisy like this since, after all he once skipped school for three days to get drunk and go fishing when he was 15 it's just that there was no Facebook at the time. I will always come down hard, fast and brutal on anyone who proposes using social media for anything in a professional environment, particularly for judging the character of an individual or the intent behind a particular comment. Not gonna happen and if you admit to doing it I absolutely lose a bit of respect for you yourself as a result.
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SFC Bernard Walko
While I respect your statement and your faith I fail to see how invoking a religious journey is productive in daily military life. Jesus has his place and if you're a Christian it's an important one but you, not your faith are the guy making the decisions. There's right and there's wrong, you and I and anyone else granted authority under the UCMJ are the ones who decide what is and isn't right and wrong, not Jesus or Christian Faith. I maintain that it is objectively wrong to potentially influence a soldier's career in a negative fashion based on social media, and further it violates the Seven Army Values on multiple counts to do so. With that being said your post and opinion are noted and respected, but ultimately contested since they don't clearly explain their relevance to the topic at hand, instead muddying and confusing it.
While I respect your statement and your faith I fail to see how invoking a religious journey is productive in daily military life. Jesus has his place and if you're a Christian it's an important one but you, not your faith are the guy making the decisions. There's right and there's wrong, you and I and anyone else granted authority under the UCMJ are the ones who decide what is and isn't right and wrong, not Jesus or Christian Faith. I maintain that it is objectively wrong to potentially influence a soldier's career in a negative fashion based on social media, and further it violates the Seven Army Values on multiple counts to do so. With that being said your post and opinion are noted and respected, but ultimately contested since they don't clearly explain their relevance to the topic at hand, instead muddying and confusing it.
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SFC Bernard Walko
Respect toward your own journey through life and the courage necessary to share it honestly with others.
That being said, social media takes juvenile mistakes or off handed and foolish comments and publishes them for the entire world to judge a man or woman even though they shouldn't. Social, media has no "filter" with regard to anything, context, drunkenness, humor, right or wrong and so should NEVER be used to judge a person. It of course can be, as a result of generating a lasting record of that person's behavior or actions but doing so speaks more against the individual who is so foolish as to judge someone based on social media than anything else. I've encountered such judgements before and have made the following statement (which I stand by): "I respect you far less than the asshole who posted the thing your judging as a result of your willingness to use social media as a metric by which to judge people. Sort yourself out and come back to me when you're sufficiently mature enough to not unjustly hold people responsible for things that are meant to have been said privately. Period. Make excuses, I will respect the apparent racist posting on facebook infinitely more than the ass trying to judge them for their ill-advised behavior.
Respect toward your own journey through life and the courage necessary to share it honestly with others.
That being said, social media takes juvenile mistakes or off handed and foolish comments and publishes them for the entire world to judge a man or woman even though they shouldn't. Social, media has no "filter" with regard to anything, context, drunkenness, humor, right or wrong and so should NEVER be used to judge a person. It of course can be, as a result of generating a lasting record of that person's behavior or actions but doing so speaks more against the individual who is so foolish as to judge someone based on social media than anything else. I've encountered such judgements before and have made the following statement (which I stand by): "I respect you far less than the asshole who posted the thing your judging as a result of your willingness to use social media as a metric by which to judge people. Sort yourself out and come back to me when you're sufficiently mature enough to not unjustly hold people responsible for things that are meant to have been said privately. Period. Make excuses, I will respect the apparent racist posting on facebook infinitely more than the ass trying to judge them for their ill-advised behavior.
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Good job, the only thing to add would be the actual regulation reference as to provide the individual clear guidance as to were it's written and that way the Soldier/soldiers cannot stand ground and argue back.
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Anybody voting that he handled it wrong are part of the problem. To ignore his outward and public gang affiliation is a dereliction of your duties and responsibility to your fellow service members, regardless of your rank or the piece of trash gang members rank. Want to be a gang banger then stay a civilian.
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Gang infiltration of the US Armed Forces is nothing new. The least you can do is report it to CID, S2/G2, or Company 1st Sgt. There is no room in our brotherhood for those with skewed allegiances.
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SSG (Join to see)
There are literally hundreds of Security Threat Group profiles in the United States alone. Some being more interested in infiltrating the US Armed Forces than others. Everything from the multi-billion dollar a year Hell's Angels MC down to the street level home-grown gangs that involve themselves in petty crime. None of them have any room in the Armed Forces if there is any hint of allegiance to anything but this nation.
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You did it exctly the way you should have. Tried to give the guy a break by allowing him to take the correction and fix the problem himself. He chose not to so you did what had to be done. I commend you for it!!
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To play devil's advocate if Facebook was left open on his computer it will say he read it even though he may not have seen it. Do you think said soldier is actually affiliated with the gang, or is he just flashing signs to be cool on Facebook? Lots to consider, but regardless gang ties to service members is a no go.
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Capt Seid Waddell
SGT Nicholas Eineichner, SSG Roger Ayscue, does it really matter if he was actually in a gang or just wanted to have others think that he was? Isn't the attitude the same in either case, and isn't that a security risk?
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SGT Nicholas Eineichner
Capt Seid Waddell - it only matters in the sense that you may need to approach that soldier in a different way now to safely address and correct the issue
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Capt Seid Waddell
SGT Nicholas Eineichner, SSG Roger Ayscue, in which case referring the case to CID was the proper way to go.
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Here is the issue with todays society, gangs, drug use and being a thug is cool. Today the best way to handle these kids is with a conversation starting with "if you are so proud of gang banging why did you join the Army?" Make them think about what they ran away from and how successful they can be. You will never convince a person raised in a gang society that banging is wrong because to them it's normal. Being a leader today is challenging, you have to be able to think outside of the box.
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SPC (Join to see)
You're absolutely right. And I grew up around gangs in Fayetteville. Unfortunately, when you're limited to online interaction, it can be even more challenging to connect with said person.
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Sounds like you initiated the corrective steps properly, however, what I noticed that was absent in your message was your face to face discussion on the issue. Media time stamps are a good check in determining if the message was viewed, but no guarantee that "he" was the one to view it at that time. Most times, those tough conversations, done properly, can resolve issues before they become problems.
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SPC (Join to see)
I did not know the soldier personally. He was a recent AIT graduate that was stationed at Fort Lewis, and was therefore unavailable for a face to face interaction.
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SSG(P) (Join to see)
Face to face could have quickly led to a situation where the dude ended up in over his head, especially if the gang speculation would up being valid. See something, say something, and let the pros deal with investigating and correcting the situation. I get it snitches get stitches, I was a juvenile once too, but if you where the uniform and posting dumb shit of FB you already a weak ass gansta
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