Posted on Mar 14, 2018
How do I address a transgender or gender fluid officer?
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I am afraid that the military will update UCMJ for “misgendering” persons, if I was approached by an officer am I now supposed to ask what to call him/her/them and all the other confusing pronouns? And I do end up having to do that how do you go about asking a person how they identify?
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Transgender
Transgender
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 39
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Until Political correctness fully inserts itself into the Military, Sir, Ma'am or rank will serve as a back up. Don't look for problems that haven't occurred yet. Fear not their is a death by power point presentation and a command talk coming to a classroom near you soon. Then it will be annual certifications and metrics sheets.
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SFC (Join to see)
1SG Dennis Hicks That's why I've reminded everyone I work with to not walk on egg shells. While I know of a handful of individuals personally who'd go off for an accidental slip of the tongue (if they knew of the individual) or presumed the gender, in reality mistakes will happen.
And as you said, Top, in the end it's extra training that makes everyone pissed. It's true when someone was offensive, regardless in jest or purposely, we get training. No matter the EO protected class.
And as you said, Top, in the end it's extra training that makes everyone pissed. It's true when someone was offensive, regardless in jest or purposely, we get training. No matter the EO protected class.
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Is this hypothetical, or an actual situation you have encountered? I sincerely hope "misgendering" does not become an issue worthy of UCMJ action. Current transgender policy is to address and treat any service member as they are coded in DEERS. Genderfluid is not currently recognized by the DoD. Personally, I would take a stab at it and have a 50% chance of being right rather than ask what gender someone is. Always maintain professional courtesy. If you are corrected, apologize and move on.
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SSG (Join to see)
Where have you seen this shift? I haven't seen it in my travels.
These people are such a small number across the country that I doubt you'll ever run into one in the military.
These people are such a small number across the country that I doubt you'll ever run into one in the military.
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SPC (Join to see)
In non combat MOS specificially, and politically, it is not necessarily a big shift in practices I’ve seen this in a more ideologically sense and as ideas change so do practices
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LTC (Join to see)
SSG (Join to see) - I know of two such individuals. In both cases, the gender identity of the soldier was pretty obvious. If you do guess wrong, just sincerely apologize and don't repeat the mistake.
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SFC (Join to see)
SFC Kelly Fuerhoff That's very true. It's what happened with dissolving the WAC, racial desegregation and gender integration of women into more combat roles.
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You're a PFC so you're allowed (even expected) to make some mistakes. As long as you greeted the officer appropriately as you saw them as male or female, even if they were to correct you, I highly doubt there'd be any major repercussions. Plus, most of us would understand such a mistake being made and may likely make it ourselves. The only way you'd get into trouble if you were under my command would be if you intentionally disrespected him or her.
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I get called 'sir' all the time... (On here as well). Usually in passing, gate guards, etc. Not in actual face-to-face conversations. (I know I don't have a pic up, but I am very female-looking-- body shape, makeup, long hair, etc.) It doesn't bother me at all. It isn't that I say it doesn't bother me to make people feel better about the mistake-- it legitimately does not bother me at all. If anything, it entertains me.
Most of the officers people see are 'sirs', so it is just an automatic response. If they don't correct it, I never even say anything. If they notice and get flustered and try to correct it-- I tell them not to worry about it. Easy day. (Then again, I am pretty damned tough to 'offend', so I might be a unicorn in that regard. A lot of women-- especially the ones who look pretty damned masculine-- are the ones who get their feathers ruffled about being mis-pronouned.)
I have watched the shift toward the uber-politically correct that you are worried about for a long time. We aren't quite there yet. I very rarely say this, but I will this time: that is for more senior people to worry about. You are young/ junior enough that this does not need to be on your radar.
If you get yelled at for getting it 'wrong' by someone, stand there and take the 'Alpha Charlie', respond respectfully, and let it roll off your back. Get out in front of it when you get back to your chain of command-- tell them what happened so if/when they call your command demanding some kind of punitive action for being 'offended' (which they can request, not actually 'demand' unless they happen to be your boss's boss), your guys already know your side of the story. It helps if you have a good reputation for being professional and squared away with your chain of command, so I would focus on that more than anything else.
Most of the officers people see are 'sirs', so it is just an automatic response. If they don't correct it, I never even say anything. If they notice and get flustered and try to correct it-- I tell them not to worry about it. Easy day. (Then again, I am pretty damned tough to 'offend', so I might be a unicorn in that regard. A lot of women-- especially the ones who look pretty damned masculine-- are the ones who get their feathers ruffled about being mis-pronouned.)
I have watched the shift toward the uber-politically correct that you are worried about for a long time. We aren't quite there yet. I very rarely say this, but I will this time: that is for more senior people to worry about. You are young/ junior enough that this does not need to be on your radar.
If you get yelled at for getting it 'wrong' by someone, stand there and take the 'Alpha Charlie', respond respectfully, and let it roll off your back. Get out in front of it when you get back to your chain of command-- tell them what happened so if/when they call your command demanding some kind of punitive action for being 'offended' (which they can request, not actually 'demand' unless they happen to be your boss's boss), your guys already know your side of the story. It helps if you have a good reputation for being professional and squared away with your chain of command, so I would focus on that more than anything else.
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SGM (Join to see)
LCDR Gail L., Right-on, ma'am, especially; "Get out in front of it when you get back to your chain of command-- tell them what happened so if/when they call your command demanding some kind of punitive action for being 'offended' (which they can request, not actually 'demand' unless they happen to be your boss's boss), your guys already know your side of the story." Related, ma'am, anytime I make an on the spot correction, even when I am correct, I always tell my chain of command. Especially, when they are senior to me or outside my unit. The best policy is always to tell the truth, hooah!
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SFC (Join to see)
LCDR (Join to see) I have a similar issue when I'm in the duty uniform. I don't like to wear makeup in the Army with the exception of wearing the ASUs. I have longer hair then most of my masculine female friends but I am also the second or third tallest female in my unit. I blame the fact I've got more muscle because I love working out and physically competing in Roller Derby, crossfit and the Physical Fitness Test. I'm unsure about you, ma'am, but for me I laugh it off. Like when I drove by my neighborhood to get a phone charger, one of the on post hosting reps came by my car and handed me a nice breakfast to go bag! She addressed me as a male, I took off my head gear and she got upset for calling me the wrong pronoun. We laughed it off and I got a wonderful muffin.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, ma'am.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, ma'am.
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LCDR (Join to see)
I don't know that it is even a 'look' thing aside from the fact that those who look masculine enough to legitimately think the mis-pronouner mistook them for males are usually the only ones I know who get upset about it. (That and my 5'2", blond haired, DD chested friend gets upset about it, too... Not 'mad' so much, but indignant. She's like, really? Which I get-- she is the farthest from looking like a dude chick I know which is why I think it is muscle memory more than anything else.)
'Sir' is just the automatic response to seeing officer rank insignia, so it comes out before they process the gender of the person they are addressing. (Especially when I worked with all submariners several years ago-- before women on subs... Some of them legitimately did not know how to address a female officer because all they had ever been exposed to were men. What am I going to do? Get mad at them for it? No... That would be dumb.)
My favorite is over the phone. I have a really deep voice-- like mid-range manly deep-- so I always get 'sir' over the phone. This one poor guy called me 'sir' twice a day every other day for over a year (he opened and secured his building, I was usually the security dispatcher who took the calls) before he came in to the station one day to update the registration on his car. When he saw me, the poor guy about lost it he was so terrified and apologetic that he'd been mis-gendering me all that time. (His reaction to realizing I was a girl was the memorable part... can't possibly remember all of the people who thought I was a dude over the phone.) He was worried that he had 'offended' me every day for forever... took a bit for me to reassure him that it really was no big deal-- that if it had bothered me, I would have said something a long time ago.
'Sir' is just the automatic response to seeing officer rank insignia, so it comes out before they process the gender of the person they are addressing. (Especially when I worked with all submariners several years ago-- before women on subs... Some of them legitimately did not know how to address a female officer because all they had ever been exposed to were men. What am I going to do? Get mad at them for it? No... That would be dumb.)
My favorite is over the phone. I have a really deep voice-- like mid-range manly deep-- so I always get 'sir' over the phone. This one poor guy called me 'sir' twice a day every other day for over a year (he opened and secured his building, I was usually the security dispatcher who took the calls) before he came in to the station one day to update the registration on his car. When he saw me, the poor guy about lost it he was so terrified and apologetic that he'd been mis-gendering me all that time. (His reaction to realizing I was a girl was the memorable part... can't possibly remember all of the people who thought I was a dude over the phone.) He was worried that he had 'offended' me every day for forever... took a bit for me to reassure him that it really was no big deal-- that if it had bothered me, I would have said something a long time ago.
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SPC (Join to see)
Marines told to stop using ‘sir,’ ‘ma’am’ to avoid ‘misgendering’ superiors
The Marines might ban recruits from respectfully addressing senior members as “sir” or “ma’am” to avoid “misgendering” and offending them.
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COL (Join to see)
I started a new job in November. There is an retired Marine. We have become good talking buddies. I just asked. She said feminine.
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MSG Louis Alexander
Home rice and yaki mundo! Call them by their rank what is so difficult about that. My god I can even see how snowflake liberalism has infiltrated this room. Until Congress and the President says otherwise there should be no debate or questions.
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Until informed otherwise you can address by rank when saluting or acknowledging an officer.
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You do it respectfully. Either ask sincerely with respect (careful here) or make your best guess, and if wrong, apologize sincerely.
Really no different then civilian life.
Really no different then civilian life.
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LCDR (Join to see)
As much as-- for once?-- I agree with you regarding doing whatever you do respectfully and sincerely, the percentage of people in the military (or in society in general) that identify as anything other than conforming to one of the two primary binary genders is so infinitesimally small that I think you run more of a risk in offending a 'normal' person at the suggestion they might be something other than what they look like than offending a non-traditionally gender conforming person by accidentally applying a non-preferred pronoun. Transgendered people usually look like the preferred gender (at least beyond a certain transition point), and the other non-traditional gender types have no exterior expression that would suggest what pronoun they prefer. Here, I'm talking about those who prefer something other than 'he' or 'she'. I'm guessing the non-traditionalist is likely more accustomed to responding to the non-preferred pronoun than a 'normal' person would be at responding to a gender-identity-status inquiry.
(Right now I'm envisioning Joker asking GySgt Hartman-- God rest his soul-- what pronoun he prefers... likely would not have ended well for Joker, but I'm entertaining myself with it.)
(I mean no offense by the use of the term 'normal' to describe people who conform to the two traditional genders-- or any other terms for that matter. Admittedly, I'm not hip with the most current PC phraseology. By 'normal' I mean nothing other than majority of people as it would exist on a standard deviation model.)
(Right now I'm envisioning Joker asking GySgt Hartman-- God rest his soul-- what pronoun he prefers... likely would not have ended well for Joker, but I'm entertaining myself with it.)
(I mean no offense by the use of the term 'normal' to describe people who conform to the two traditional genders-- or any other terms for that matter. Admittedly, I'm not hip with the most current PC phraseology. By 'normal' I mean nothing other than majority of people as it would exist on a standard deviation model.)
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SPC (Join to see) I agree with 1SG Dennis Hicks. You can not go wrong by referring to them by their rank.
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SPC (Join to see)
It seems as though that is the way to go, I feel awkward I think because I’m still a private referring to an officer as their rank but that seems to be the way to go if political correctness asserts itself into the military
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I really don't see a National Guard site in North Carolina having an abundance of transgender officers... But on the off chance that you have one wander in, sir or ma'am will do just fine. They'll have an official gender. It's not like genders are swapped around like hats..
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