Posted on Jan 31, 2014
MSG Cannon Crew Member
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Some of the new barracks at Fort Hood are impossible to control. The Army in my opinion should have thought about the design flaw which leads to any street walker or drug dealer access to our soldiers at the barracks. They are designed like motels with unrestricted access to anyone who walks up. What are your opinions? How can we fix it?
Posted in these groups: American flag soldiers SoldiersVc iwcc w415 BarracksDrug DrugsDuty honor country tadhc 4t Duty
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CSM Stuart C. O'Black
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Edited 12 y ago

Interesting topic, very long response.


A few points:


1) In our BDE we had two barracks. One only had four entrances minus the fire exits. The other had sixteen entrances. While we were gone the rear-d only used the one with four entrances.  Since they did have issue discussed the locked all doors and posted guards, everyone was checked in and out. It worked well and they had very little issue. However, the Soldiers felt like they were in prison and due to the size of the building they had to walk a football field distance to exit when their car was 10 yards always.


2) Upon our return we occupied the second barracks and tried lockdown. They broke the door locks and it was very hard to control access. So when we walked through the barracks we realized what we were asking of our Soldiers. To walk two hundred yards to get to a vehicle or access 10 yards away. It was like your wife locking the garage door and mandating you only go through the front door. So after talking with the Soldiers we removed the restriction and opened all the doors. Minus a few small issues we have had the lowest incidents I have seen. We do have an NCO and three CQs two walk the area but this is to reduce theft and report issue. I truly believe if you build a professional attitude and environment they will behave that way.


3) We still have some theft issues but mostly in the parking lot so we are looking into purchasing cameras and will place them around. Hopefully a deterrent for many things.


4) Again we are not perfect even found a minor in the barracks, (hid in closet) have to turn down the music, etc... BUT nothing NCOs checking on Soldier cannot fix. Every time we find something wrong I take a step back and say is it an issue or incident - is it systemic or just a short term problem. When it is an incident and not a systemic issue why freak out when something happens in the Barracks? Every complex that big has issues! 


***** Finally, believe me there is a lot happening in married housing- most don't see it because you don't get the Blotters. CSM don't yell housing is screwed up because the are mixed housing areas they can't control. But they do say the Barracks are screwed up because they can impact that. SOOOOO treat you Soldier with the respect they deserve but the guidance and oversight they need.



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MSG Cannon Crew Member
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CSM, Very well thought out and impressive post. I've taken some notes. This is exactly why I enjoy RP.
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SSG Retired!!!
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Great insight and view from the top CSM, thanks.
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Edited 12 y ago
SSG Michael D.  

Consider putting up a physical or laser fence, motion triggered lights / audible warnings, warning signs stating this is a sensitive military installation / forbid trespassing / use of deadly force is authorized / and any surviving trespassers will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of law.  Then develop a public reputation for shooting first and prosecuting later.  :)  

Warm Regards, Sandy


SSG V. Michelle Woods
SSG V. Michelle Woods
12 y
Hahahaha! Fair point Ms. Sandy. Always contributing useful information and always a lady :)
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SSG Oliver Mathews
SSG Oliver Mathews
12 y
Save some time and RFID every incoming soldier. Place Phalanx CIWS's at every base?

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SSG Laureano Pabon
SSG Laureano Pabon
12 y
lol That's a good one 1LT. Annala.... hahaha.
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SSG Oliver Mathews
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If you are worried that any street walker or hooker can get to the barracks i would first wonder how these hookers and street walkers are getting on to post. Then i would hope that i trained my soldiers well enough to know and do the right thing. And at the end of it all. Understand that they are adults. The choices they make can only be influenced by their NCOs not made for them by us.
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SSG V. Michelle Woods
SSG V. Michelle Woods
12 y
Easy as a hooker SGT Mathews
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SSG Oliver Mathews
SSG Oliver Mathews
12 y
Of course its easy... Soldiers (male and Female) are active and energetic... and if she is coming to the barracks it saves him time in going to the bar. Just sayin...
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MSG Cannon Crew Member
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Anyone else other than myself had three of your Soldiers come to you on the same morning asking to go on sick call for "personal reasons". Many of the young ones lack that good judgment skill.
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SSG Oliver Mathews
SSG Oliver Mathews
12 y
SSG Dean, How do you know that a stove is hot? Because you where told? or did you find out? If you knew because you where told, how did you know that the person telling you knew what they where talking about?

You have to experience to learn some of the hardest lessons. If those lessons end with warts, burning urine, scabs, or possible death. you had to learn your way.

Ill give you an example. When i was a kid i was told that you only cross at cross walks... easy enough... its only safe to walk at cross walks... after about the third time of almost getting hit by a car, and losing one bike to a truck... I learned that regardless of where you cross the street you have to watch the light...

If we coddle the soldiers they should never fail.. but if they dont fail, how are they going to remember not to do it again?
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How do we control access to the barracks?
CPT Owner
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Edited 12 y ago
Back in good ol 4/2 CR when things got out of hand "cell block 400" was initiated. 
-we had dug fighting positions around the barracks with 3 fire teams manning them 24/7
-an ECP was established at the entrance to the paring lot where I.D. cards were checked 24/7
- There was always 1 squad of roaming guards around the perimeter of the barracks
- There were 2 door sentry at each doorway to the stairwell/floors. 
-there were 2 roaming guards on each floor
-all this in addition to CQ
-every time you passed a sentry or guard you had to present your ID card and sign a sheet stating which room you would be in, and why.

If you don't believe me, you might be able to find an old story on US ARMY W.T.F. moments. 
There is never a dull moment in Vilseck. 

The above is a bit drastic, but would definitely solve the problem.

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MSG Cannon Crew Member
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I heart satire..
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SSG Cannon Crew Member
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As much as I agree with SPC McCumber, doing something like that to today's younger generations would surely hurt their feelings and well, god forbid they go through something so tumultuous as that...
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SFC Company First Sergeant
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Key Card entry on all doors.
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SSgt George Brown
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When I first COSed to RAF Lakenheath, I had to stay in the dorm (barracks) until my family could join me.  The main thing I noticed what the immaturity of quite a few, mostly brought on by alcohol.  I was reading in my room one day when I heard some voices at my door, I went and opened the door and there were two airmen looking up at me with a smile and a big wet spot from their discharging a water fire extinguisher under the door.  All I could say is "Grow Up dudes".
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SGM Sergeant Major
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I think I know her or him - crap! LMAO!
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SSG V. Michelle Woods
SSG V. Michelle Woods
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1SG, be sure to click on the photo and check out that hair :)
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SFC Michael Hasbun
SFC Michael Hasbun
12 y

We had that in Grafenwoehr. Soldiers kept propping open the doors, and within 6 months they somehow managed to break the lock system so that it was perpetually open...

 

There's no force in nature more persistent than a spiteful Private...

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CW2 Officer In Charge
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So prior to our deployment we had 6 people on CQ at the barracks and senior leaders doing random barracks checks between the hours of 1800 and 0600. Our soldiers were getting in more trouble than before this started and I feel like part of that is not so much that they were being "extra bad", but because the leadership was looking for trouble with a fine tooth comb so they didn't get blamed for what was going on in the barracks. This is not the right answer. We need to treat our single soldiers with as much respect and responsibility as we do our married soldiers. In my opinion, this is discrimination against single soldiers because they haven't decided to get married yet.

Soldiers will be soldiers whether they live in the barracks, in on post housing, or off post. The soldiers in the barracks are forced to live there and then treated like children. When you treat them like children, they will act as such.

If a married soldier who lives on post has a guest who drank too much spend the night, nothing is said. The army is providing that house as a benefit for the service member and dependents, not the guests. A soldier in the barracks doesn't want their guest to drink and drive, so they allow their guest to spend the night and that soldier is punished for essentially "doing the right thing".

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CW2 Officer In Charge
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Let me elaborate on the enforcing a standard. Say I tell my soldiers that I expect them to stand at parade rest for me and any other NCO until told otherwise, as they should. If I don't say anything to them when they fail to comply, then I am allowing that behavior. But, if every time they fail to comply, I tell them I can't hear them or make them do some push ups while I remind them of a basic Army courtesy, then they will learn the expectation really quick and so will their battle buddies because word will get out that SSG Whittington doesn't play when it comes to this basic Army courtesy. The same thing can happen in the b's
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SSG V. Michelle Woods
SSG V. Michelle Woods
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Thank you for the clarification SSG Whittington. 

Correct me if I'm wrong but simply put, you're saying if they follow the rules, allow them to live like adults. If they don't, then punish accordingly. 
I like that plan and believe it would greatly benefit our barracks atmosphere.
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CW2 Officer In Charge
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Yes, SSG Woods, that's the plan in simple terms!
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SSG V. Michelle Woods
SSG V. Michelle Woods
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Now if only they would listen to us...
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SSG Conex
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Ya'll are making this out like Soldiers only make bad decisions.  SSG Dean, sounds like a prision but I also remember those days and the NCO asking 20 questions.  Also I remember the visitors must be out by 2300 checks.  How is it that I can a person of the opposite sex at my offpost apartment but I can't have one in the barracks?  I also remember that 1SG outlawed parties in the Dayroom, good call, we will just take the party off post where there are no controls.  Let me ask you a question, would you rather me play beer pong in the dayroom or at the bar 10 miles away.  Oh, and guess what I'm not taking a cab because tomorrow I have to find a way to get my car.  I keep hearing the Army needs to go back to the days of old and in some aspects I agree but in others I think we need to use the lessons learned approach and treat our Soldiers like the adults they can be.  Instead we want to treat them like children and guess what, when you treat a grown ass man like a child he is going to say F it, I will act like you treat me. 

 

SPC McCumber is onto something if you want to treat your Soldiers like children.  Hell don't even allow them access to their civilian clothes.  Take their car keys, you know just in case they may drink in the next few days.  Have hourly formations 24/7 for accountability.   

 

Why is it that I can go home and relax without having to worry about someone checking on me every two hours.  It is to the point where if we do not know where our Soldiers are 24/7 and who they are with then we are bad leaders.  Ya'll need to relax the leash ya'll are putting on these Soldiers.  What till they deserve to be on a leash.  The barracks are not an extension of work but a place where Soldiers live. 

 

Have some of us been NCOs too long not to remember how living in the barracks were.  I remember quite vividly and if my Soldiers are doing the right thing why do I need to be up in their Kool-Aid. 

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CW2 Officer In Charge
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I say we treat the married soldiers who live on post the same way we treat the single soldiers in the barracks and see how far that gets us.
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MSG Cannon Crew Member
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SSG Spratlin, Thanks for your input. I value your entire opinion and I do agree with parts of it.  Either way I learn from listening to what others have to say.








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SPC Stephen Bobchin
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This isn't an issue with locking doors or posting CQ, this is a soldier issue (as most issues are). Your fix should be to encourage soldiers to take pride in where they live, make them happy to be there, and condition the group to stigmatize anyone who messes up a good thing for them.
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This is a great discussion. I have been in the military for over 12 years now and I have seen the evolution of billeting for single soldiers from the standard one building setup with company ops and CQ in the same building to the more apartment style living that some soldiers now experience. We are dealing with some of the same issues of theft and vandalism that many of you leaders in this discussion are experiencing.&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>While I agree that we should not limit freedom of the Soldiers. I also pose the question. Do you think that a lack of emphasis on values and pride are contributing to the disrespect shown by those that require more control?</div><div><br></div><div>Think back to initial entry training when you had to learn to be a soldier before you were given more freedom. We are taught the Army Values and we take pride in our unit so that we care for it and respect everything associated with our unit. Are we done with reenforcing those standards after we graduate our initial training? Yes, everyone is an adult but we are also "professional" Soldiers.&nbsp;</div>
CMDCM Gene Treants
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In so many areas I keep hearing the "We are and ALL VOLUNTEER Force" ansewer.  Yet nowhere in this thread has it come up.  I understand the need for full lockdown in Recruit Training, but really, back in the States, in our motel like accomidations?  The Military is now segrated into two legal classes adults, people old enought to drink legally, and those under the legal drinking age.  Therein lies the real crux of the matter, not really anything else in the barracks really matters.

Solve this problem and you solve most of the other problems in the BEQ.  Rules are easy to make and easier to ignore and Sailors/Soldiers/Airmen/Marines have found so many way to ignore rules it is worth writing a book just about that subject.  However, drinking by underage members leads to the most problems.  I do not now and never had the soloution to this one, our biggest problem.

We need the 17 to 20 year old recruit so raising the age oif enlistment is not the answer.  The USA has told us the we cannot bend drinking rules in States and violate the rules of each state.  We surly would not be doing our duty by not hammering our troops if they do have a beer while underagem even if they are being shot at, right?

So, Lets all just go back to DOD and ask for more money and eleminate the requirement to live in the BEQ.  Military members could then live where they wanted and become a boost the the local economy and law enforcement!
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