Posted on Aug 13, 2015
CH (MAJ) William Beaver
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How do we demonstrate adherence to separation of church and state respectfully?
Posted in these groups: Church logo ChurchWorld religions 2 ReligionImages 1st Amendment
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Responses: 11
MAJ Keira Brennan
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I say we just take a look at what the Framers had to say about the 1st Amendment and the whole discourse on Seperation. It is EASY to avoid the Up/Down, Right/Wrong crap when religion is kept out of the public venue IN TERMS OF GOVERNANCE. Just consider what Madison (an architect of the Bill of Rights and the early amendments) had to say about religion.
“Is the appointment of Chaplains to the two Houses of Congress consistent with the Constitution, and with the pure principle of religious freedom? In strictness the answer on both points must be in the negative. The Constitution of the U. S. forbids everything like an establishment of a national religion.”
And then goes on to say. “The establishment of the chaplainship to Congs is a palpable violation of equal rights, as well as of Constitutional principles:”
He says much the same about military chaplains.
James Madison, Detached Memoranda/ca. 1817W. & M. Q., 3d ser., 3:554--60 1946
http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/amendI_religions64.html
I am not interested in hearing ANY RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION other than a general condemnation of it.
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MAJ Keira Brennan
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Keep your beliefs to yourself. Stop proselytizing.
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MAJ Keira Brennan
MAJ Keira Brennan
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LOL. Maybe common decency says people like you should practice whatever you want in the privacy of your home and keep it out of the public discourse. Its SEPARATE for a reason.
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SFC Michael Hasbun
SFC Michael Hasbun
>1 y
Beliefs exist in your brain. Once you vocalize them, they intrude on the public. If people kept their beliefs to themselves (other than in same faith worship, in homes and dedicated locations) the world would be a much nicer place...
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SFC Michael Hasbun
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Easy. The government has no say on what happens within the walls of a religious building, and the religions have no say on what happens in the government/the country.
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PO2 Peter Klein
PO2 Peter Klein
10 y
The first part of what you say is true. The second part is patently false! Consider the furor churches have caused on issues such as Planned Parenthood Rowe vs. Wade. And the tea baggers like Cruz and Huckabee grovel to them.
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SFC Michael Hasbun
SFC Michael Hasbun
10 y
PO2 Peter Klein - Oh agreed. He asked how it should happen.

Sadly we've somehow revised history and created this alternate timeline where Moses was a founding father and the country was clearly intended to be a theocracy... I don't know how we got to this point, but here we are.
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How do we practice separation of church and state?
SPC David Hannaman
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Offensive? Not at all... pretty honest and forthcoming actually... I envision a small group of grey haired people singing 400 year old hymns and nodding off during a "fire and brimstone" sermon about Leviticus and Revelations though. Not the kind of place I'd choose to worship.

As for separation of Church and state...

When Kennedy was elected there was fear that because he was Catholic that the edict of the Pope would find their way into the laws of the United States. I think history has proven that it was not the case.

Integrity and moral character are imperative for the leader of the most powerful nation on the planet. When Jesus was asked what the most important commandment is he responded:

“Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest and most important commandment. The second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets depend on these two commandments” (Matthew 22:37–40)

Awareness of the struggles of our fellow citizens is implied in this edict... and often forgotten, but isn't the mark of a great president the ability to consider what is best for the citizens of the United States and the world?
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Capt Mark Strobl
Capt Mark Strobl
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SPC David Hannaman, good post, sir. Great opening paragraph!
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SFC Michael Hasbun
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CW4 Guy Butler
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Heh. There's a few Republican Baptist Churches in the South. At least they're honest about their politics.

Are they violating the seperation between church and state? Probably. Do they care? No. Is the IRS going to yank their 501(c) status? Get real.

Churches that adhere to the church/state rules are the ones you never hear about.
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COL Jon Thompson
COL Jon Thompson
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I don't see how this would violate separation between church and state. The 1st Amendment only states, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances" Unless this church had some special treatment from Congress, I don't see how they are violating the Constitution.
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CW4 Guy Butler
CW4 Guy Butler
>1 y
They do - a church automatically qualifies for 501(c)(3) tax exempt status. In return,
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CW4 Guy Butler
CW4 Guy Butler
>1 y
and are fairly immune to audit. In return, they are prohibited from certain activities.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1828.pdf

Page 7 covers political activities.
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Cpl Software Engineer
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I think the better question is how do you adhere to the doctrine of separation and balance that with "Freedom of Religion?" Every time a politician, who is also an American Citizen guaranteed inalienable rights, says something of a religious nature, the anti-religion crowd throws a terrible-two's tantrum.
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SPC David Hannaman
SPC David Hannaman
>1 y
And on the flip side I often hear the "Religious Right" complain how we're straying from the religious ideals this country was founded on... without considering how the climate has changed and other religious believers now represent enough of the citizenship to bring their beliefs up for addition to legislation, and we lack leadership/focus in Washington to prevent it from being voted into law in the name of political correctness).

People often forget the concept that allowing prayer in school would mean playing the Muslim call to prayer in certain schools where the majority of citizens practice that faith. I know if MY kids happened to go to said school I wouldn't want them subjected to that.
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Cpl Software Engineer
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States themselves were never disallowed from establishing a religious base. The doctrine of separation was to keep the federal government from establishing a religion. As far as schools go, it was jimmy carter's Dept of Education that forced the federal government into the state institutes bypassing the 10th Amendment.
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Capt Seid Waddell
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Edited >1 y ago
As long as Congress is not establishing a state religion there is not a Constitutional problem.

The government should stay out of the people's and the church's business, and let them worship (or not) as they choose.
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MGySgt George W Iliffe Jr
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I don't go to church except for funerals. It never enters my mind
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PO3 Aerographer's Mate
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This is an interesting question. I personally would advocate the separation of church and state, but as you said, how do we go about this?

If we have our own beliefs, won't our decisions always be biased toward that? And if we make those biased decisions, won't that always influence our politics? How does one separate their religious/moral obligations from the political decision making process? Although this situation would be ideal for me, I'm not sure it is completely possible.
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LTC Stephen F.
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Interesting question CH (MAJ) William Beaver. Since the church is another name for the bride of Christ and consists of every believer who has does or will exist the church transcends any particular nation or group of nations. The church is greater than the state. As Christ said "render under Caesar [the state] the things that are Caesar's and unto God the things that are God's."
As believers with the light of Christ shining through us we can not separate our faith from our duty to the state. Separation of church and state fits well in deism which Thomas Jefferson practiced; but, we should not be expected to behave differently in matters spiritual from those that are temporal.
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