Posted on Jun 15, 2019
SSG Sentinel Ncoic/ Platoon Seegeant
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I’ve been going through military doctors for back pain for about two years. It’s progressively getting worse. I’m at the point where I can’t bend anymore without pain. Running causes pain. Sitting causes pain. Laying down causes pain. It is constant in the lower back. I’ve been given meds and several iterations of physical therapy, to include needle therapy and realignment sessions. Recently, I was told that they won’t recommend a MRI because of the cost and they will probably find something wrong and will have to fix it which can cause more problems. I also got a slideshow presentation of how it could be similar to phantom limb syndrome for the pain traveling down my leg. My last doctor visit he asked me what I wanted for a profile and I stated I can push through everything except sit ups. Gave me a 2p on my profile for no sit-ups on pt test and additional exercises. Mainly to avoid med board and because of the current board for SFC. Is there a way or someone I can contact IOT get a different look at my back and different opinions? What would be said advice from those with experience on how to handle this. Next reenlistment is for indef, and if it’s not fixed by then, I’ll gladly take my 214 and get civilian healthcare to hopefully take care of it.
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SFC Retention Operations Nco
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As a tricare recipient you are always authorized a second opinion. Most soldiers don't realize this because their PA is their primary care and you can't go outside of them. But you are entitled to demand a second opinion. If that doesn't work you can contact a patient advocate or the hospital ombudsman who can move things on your behalf.
Also, if you have crippling pain and you ETS, foregoing an MEB, you're making a long term decision based on short term circumstances. You can overcome the resistance of your provider with time. You can't go back and med board once you separate. Don't fall for that, "ETS and the VA will take care of it" line either. When you're walking away with a medical retirement and a disability check as opposed to ETSing with nothing but an award, you'll appreciate the advice.
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SSG Sentinel Ncoic/ Platoon Seegeant
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Oh I have no trust in VA. Wife already has to go through them at times and I had to go through their hospital in recruiting. But I’ll definitely keep that in mind. TY
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SFC Retention Operations Nco
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SSG (Join to see) it really comes down to which hospital you're at. Some have a great reputation and some are terrible. But I've seen providers routinely tell soldiers who are under a year from ETS that they won't push for a med board and the soldier should just ETS and get whatever surgery through the VA.
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SPC Jeff Stassin
SPC Jeff Stassin
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It comes down to how honest your chain of command is and how much they think you suck up to them for how much they are willing to waste their time even helping you cause you can't perform a PT test and pass, because of your medical issue that gets frowned upon like your some kind of bailjumper or a pu$$y. When you actually need help. I get slackers are gonna try, but not everybody is a slacker looking to get out of work or duty at sick call, just like police shouldn't look at everybody like a criminal. I got tossed some ibuprofen and some pencil whipped paper work that didn't reflect anything I told them. Like the originals were thrown away and they mass whipped up the paperwork. I don't remember how many classes we signed off on 3-4 & 5 times, On the same classes over and over.....where's this real help because my doctor just listens to what I say, translates it to what she thinks or alters my perceptions of what going on with my spine....
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SFC Marc W.
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"Recently, I was told that they won’t recommend a MRI because of the cost and they will probably find something wrong and will have to fix it which can cause more problems" Is completely the wrong answer and deserves a by name call out through open-door policy, ICE complaint, etc. I would also even recommend a letter to your Congressman, because them avoiding the real problem could very well be making it much worse.
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SSG Sentinel Ncoic/ Platoon Seegeant
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After this next appointment if they don’t recommend something more helpful, that’ll be the first step I take. TY
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1px xxx
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The V.A even goes by you Medical record, it's would be hard to prove unless it's in your Service Medical record, Get that MRI, while in service, be careful what you sign!!
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CW5 Jack Cardwell
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You can go to a civilian doctor, he might find something the military doctors missed but you will have to pay.
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SSG Sentinel Ncoic/ Platoon Seegeant
SSG (Join to see)
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I did that when I was on leave in the states. They stated something with the muscles on the front end of my spine may be damaged and I should request an MRI. I’m in Korea right now so it’s not really possible from where I’m at to go to a civilian unfortunately.
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CW5 Jack Cardwell
CW5 Jack Cardwell
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SSG (Join to see) Get everything documented. If you are in pain let the doctors know.
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SSgt Forensic Meteorological Consultant
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Local community? Community?
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CW4 Craig Urban
CW4 Craig Urban
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Military doctors are great. I do not like PA's. My retirement physical showed I had a p2 for hearing and a clorestual of 260. This in 1992. That was before good hdl and ldl. Come to find out my chorestural is perfect. Plus the same guy could said I did not have gout. I went to ktown say a retired col who pulled up my file and looked at my feet and said you have gout. He gave me some pills and said he would call the pa.
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How do you actually get military doctors to help out?
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I'm sorry to read about your pain and emphasize with your experience. Since you posted to a large forum, I have three thoughts you should consider: chronic pain without a primary cause or description of a surgical requirement = new job. However, you don't want MEB because you're up for a promotion. Will a promotion solve your low back pain? If you cannot continue to work in your MOS and/or the Army then you should be referred for MEB consideration to see the rest of your options.

You are certainly eligible (don't like the word entitled) for a second opinion. It will most likely be within the military healthcare system because we have lots of providers. Similar to if you worked for IBM and didn't like their medical network, you could pay to see someone else out of their network. this isn't a military problem, it's a healthcare system problem.

It sounds like you have had multiple opinions so be careful what you wish for. MRI for chronic cases will most likely lead to surgery and there is no surgery for pain. We all know people who wish they never had "that surgery".
MAJ Javier Rivera
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1. Take care of it while in service!!!!!!!
2. Get a second, third, fourth opinion!!!!!!!
3. Re-enlist indef!!!!!
4. Your radiating pain on your leg might be sciatic nerve pain.
5. Demand to get a MRI done. Is pretty much the only way to identify deformed (herniated) disks IOT to get proper treatment.
6. If it hurt go back to sick call, or the ER if required.

Why am I suggesting the aforementioned? Because I went thru the same. From 2009 until my retirement in 2016. Physical therapy, narcotics (which made me to tell my PCM to go pound sand) Because it sucked so much I was referred to a civilian pain management clinic and eventually an epidural injection was delivered; 90% improvement.

Put your fight gloves on and talk with whoever is the patient representative at your local medical facility; take care of yourself.

AND MAKE SURE EVERYTHING IS DOCUMENTED ON YOUR MEDICAL RECORDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth
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Edited >1 y ago
Tell them, don't ask, for a referral to Orthopedic surgeon, screw the family doc...they don't know bupkis!!! That way you will get an MRI, a good read on the problem, and if you need or can fix it or if it is pain management.
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Maj Marty Hogan
Maj Marty Hogan
>1 y
Great advice
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MSG Gary Eaker
MSG Gary Eaker
>1 y
Not really. Surgeon's solution to 99% of problems is to cut on you. That has mixed results in my experience.
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SFC Incheon Airport Jppc Ncoic
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Go to the Patient Administration Division (PAD). They can assist you with getting a MRI and with getting your medical needs met. The PAD office works for you the patient. Good luck to you....
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SSG Sentinel Ncoic/ Platoon Seegeant
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Awesome. Thank you. I will try and track them down.
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SFC Incheon Airport Jppc Ncoic
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They should have a office in the hospital. Go to the information desk and ask them where the PAD office is located.SSG (Join to see)
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MSG Gary Eaker
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"Pushing through everything except SU" is, IMO a mistake. It may be that your doc is avoiding the MRI due to his perception that your promotion is more important to you than your health. You said you were told "they won’t recommend a MRI because ... they will probably find something wrong and will have to fix it which can cause more problems."

I spent 24 years working for the AMEDD, and never once did I talk to a doctor who avoided a treatment because of the cost. However, I frequently saw doctors avoid a treatment, because they didn't want to cause trouble for the Soldier. If you lead your doctor to believe that you just want to get by with the minimum, because your career is more important to you than your long-term health, then they will honor that, and they will avoid diagnostic tests where they might find something wrong that "they will have to fix because it will cause more problems" -- for you. It is never a problem for the doc to fix something. That's why they went into medicine. That is what they want to do.

I suggest you go back to your doc and make it clear that your long term health is more important to you than passing a PT test and/or getting promoted, and that you are willing to follow his advice to get this fixed no matter what. Once he understands that you are willing to face the consequences of possibly finding a larger problem (which could very well lead to an MEB), I suspect you will see him change his tune.
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SSG Sentinel Ncoic/ Platoon Seegeant
SSG (Join to see)
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Just got an MRI and was told O have a protruding disc and some cavity with something to do with the nerve has a hole in it. Now it’s surgery or get out. Just happy they finally did something
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MSG Gary Eaker
MSG Gary Eaker
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SSG (Join to see) Glad you finally got some answers. I wish you well in the future.
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MAJ(P) Health Services Human Resources
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I’ll give u my two cents from actual experience. U have to fight them in this and request referral to pain mgmt. if they don’t oblige, use open door, ice IG etc. it took me 5 years of lower back pain to finally get a neurostimulator implant in my back which took 80% or more of back pain away. It really masks it but to not feel it is awesome. I don’t do SU anymore and now working back to running for APFT. Find the right person and they will take care of you. You also have a right to change PCMs. My back pain started in 07. It took 5 years to get into pain Mgmt. Much like u several rounds of meds PT etc. then once i was finally in pain Mgmt it took another five years before i got my stimulator. So keep at it. If u have any questions hit me up and I’ll answer whatever i can from my experience.
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WO1 Ierw Student
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Sounds like you have a ruptured or bulging disc in between your L5 and S1. There’s stretches you can do to alleviate the pain. I have the exact same pain and stretching really helps.
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SSG Sentinel Ncoic/ Platoon Seegeant
SSG (Join to see)
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If you can name a few I am more than happy to try them. I’ve been doing every recommended stretch they give me plus more. My google history is nothing but back pain relief. How did you come to find out what exactly caused your pain?
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WO1 Ierw Student
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SSG (Join to see) well I had a deadlifting accident a few months ago and so I started doing research on the injury due to what I was from my back down to my foot which was a pulling feeling/numbness at times. https://youtu.be/9SKuFe2SERs
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WO1 Ierw Student
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SSG (Join to see) i’d Start with this I had been doing multiple lower back stretches with not much alleviation. However, I’d start with this and if this doesn’t help after a week or two I’d ask about an MRI due to possibly a ruptured disc
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