Posted on Jul 25, 2016
PVT Intelligence Analyst
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Double standards could be anything from one leader not having to pull duty over another or one leader not receiving punishment for a major issue.
Posted in these groups: Leadership abstract 007 LeadershipChecklist icon 2 Standards
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Responses: 33
LTC Field Artillery Officer
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PVT (Join to see) I guess I would first ask, what double standards are you referring too? What have you seen that drove you to ask this question?
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PVT Intelligence Analyst
PVT (Join to see)
>1 y
Sir, soldiers in the past have seen senior enlisted or officers get into trouble that the normal soldiers or lower enlisted would be article 15 for. Theres moments were a captain got a dui and it was dropped he was transferred no big deal no mention in the ranks of it, then a day later a specialist gets a dui and gets chaptered. I just have no response realistically to soldiers that point out and say why do they get off when they break the law? That is just one instance ive personally delt with.
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Col Dona  Marie Iversen
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As a relatively new Capt, there was an incident during a deployment that I was involved with at an early stage, then I left and the incident got out of hand. Upon return I addressed it & corrected with those (Es & Os) involved. I brought it to the attention of the camp C/O, as an FYI only, did not want the rumor mill to explode. C/O said he would punish those involved, I respectfully disagreed and told him I deescalated it and it would never happen again. His comment was, don't worry I like you, you are not in trouble. My response was, oh yes I am if the others are . Nothing ever came of it.
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PVT Intelligence Analyst
PVT (Join to see)
>1 y
See that is the issue that is so common it should be cross the board punishment not based on like and dislike
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Col Dona  Marie Iversen
Col Dona Marie Iversen
>1 y
That's exactly why I spoke up! Lead by example drown by mistakes
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SSG Warren Swan
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If it really bothers you to that point, then use the open door policy. I'm going to roll with a few of the answers below that will end up being "stay in your lane, and take care of your troops". No one has to like the answer, but if you spend your time thinking about CPT Schumckateli and what he did, how much time are you dedicating to bettering yourself and your Soldiers? BTW if the troops see you undermining superiors, rest easy it'll be your turn soon.
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SSG Warren Swan
SSG Warren Swan
>1 y
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This is the Army. Nothing you will ever see is "fair". Have I seen the same thing YES!! I've taped officers and they are over, I get taped, and I am over. At the end of the day, I walk out with a flag, and they walk out. I've seen O's straight up FAIL a DUI checkpoint. They get let go when their driver shows up. I've seen NCO's fail the tests and they are the worlds newest civilians. You effect change where you can make it. At our level, you will not make a dent into a GO's life. You loose before you begin. I searched a COL's car at random searches and found a crack pipe. They found every technicality to let him go. In the end, his son took the hit. You will see shit that will blow your mind wide open and you have to be able to drop it and move on. I wrote the TOG commander a ticket. Why was my ass being pummeled by all sides until it was torn up? Noting is fair, nothing is right, but you make it as fair as you can. You make it work the best you can. Otherwise, you'll be with HPB and clinically insane. You don't have to like it, you just have to do it. These are better than any drug out there.
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TSgt Melissa Post
TSgt Melissa Post
>1 y
PVT (Join to see) - if this is the case, isn't there something like IG? Isn't there something in the UCMJ that covers this? These are legit questions from me not smart-as replies. I would recommend directing this individual to the first sergeant if they feel they are being discriminated against and if that doesn't satisfy their concern there is the rest of the chain of commanf. If the chain is corrupt, there should be outside agencies to act as advocates for them.
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SSG Warren Swan
SSG Warren Swan
>1 y
TSgt Melissa Post - You are advocating the use of IG on what grounds? Personal feelings are not a solid reason for IG. IG cannot make the command do anything. They will look into what is claimed, and they not the SM will see the whole case from both of them. Now had the SM been promoted, that is a hollow "victory". No one recovers from a General Letter Of Reprimand. Career is done. So that CPT is also on the way out the door. What regulation is being broken? Do you know what discharge he's getting? Was he flagged when the promotion took? Too many variables and if he cannot see both sides completely, going outside the company to spill the beans will bite his ass HARD. There is no regulation for RHIP. It exists, but officially does not exist. Wall to Wall counseling doesn't exist....test the waters if you want to. If this Soldier goes that route, and does not have full legal access to the full cases involved, the Soldier would not have to worry about a double standard. He truly would be "An Army of One"....by himself on the other side of the gate. If he manages to stay in, what do you think his life would be like? I'm no fan of seeing troops get the shaft, but to recommend an outside source before using ALL of the open door policies is setting him up for failure. I cannot speak for the AF, but I know first hand a Diamond or a reef with a star trumps a whole LOT of stuff. If you do not see everything, and you have NOT done your due diligence in this, you might think your integrity is right, but your execution will be what costs you dearly. MSG Tom Earley did I miss anything?
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TSgt Melissa Post
TSgt Melissa Post
>1 y
SSG Warren Swan - Well that is why I was saying they weren't smart-ass remarks they were legit questions. I also stated to utilize the chain of command and I suggested using the first sergeant before going elsewhere.

As for being the "Army of One" IF, he knows the whole story on both sides AND the junior member truly is being punished more severely than the senior member for the same offense then there really is an issue there that needs to be addressed regardless of the social consequences. I had to "do the right thing" one time and report something that involved my friends after I tried to stop them and that didn't work. You can bet your rear end that my entire squadron, with the exception of two airmen and a few NCOs, ostracized me for over a year. But you know what, I can look myself in the mirror and not regret the lack of integrity. Now, having said all that, yes you would definitely want to make sure you had all your duckies in a row before initiating something like that.
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CMSgt Mike Esser
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Peer pressure, one on one with 1st sergeant in extreme circumstances the IG......other venues Senior enlisted council......If we were not so mamby pamby these days....blanket party
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MCPO Roger Collins
MCPO Roger Collins
>1 y
Shame on you, that is so 50ish.
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CMSgt Mike Esser
CMSgt Mike Esser
>1 y
MCPO Roger Collins - LOL.....well I am 50
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MCPO Roger Collins
MCPO Roger Collins
>1 y
Shees, CMSgt, just a pup. By the time you went in the practice had been excised from peer-to-peer justice. Got my butt in a sling in boot camp for participating in such activities.
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1LT Rich Voss
1LT Rich Voss
>1 y
Blanket parties and "shower" parties were still alive and well among us draftees in '66. "Stuff" even went down in OCS for slackers that dragged down the platoon. Those guys were usually voted out by their fellow candidates during a "panel" hearing. They went to the hearing and never came back to the unit. Swift justice. Maybe not fair. I've also seen the results of an Article 32 on fellow junior officers that "screwed up" as a group. Promotions frozen for a year and all sent quickly and quietly to Viet Nam. Fair ? Consequences of bad decisions. Sober, or in this case, not. Perhaps they survived Viet Nam as 2LTs. Odds were they didn't.
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CW3 Doyle Frost
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Take it up the chain, informally if possible, from your squad leader on up, unless that person is the one responsible for the problem. Then, as the Colonel says, go to your first shirt. If nothing is there for a recourse, there is always one last resort, the I.G. Hate to even mention that, but have seen it used before, and it wasn't pleasant, for anyone concerned. We had a problem like that in Germany, and it was brought ot my attention. C.O. told me to handle it, and he would back me. Company formation, all there, including C.O., X.O., platoon leaders, and platoon sergeants. Everyone got the same message, and the person bringing it to my attention was not mentioned. Afterwards, we had a seperate meeting in the company briefing room, of all the senior staff, and the C.O. reinforced my message with them. That problem was never brought up again.
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Cpl Michael Crowley
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Sometimes what may seem like a double standard is actually a calculation for the cost of disgracing a champion over a single lapse of judgement. If it isn't merely a single lapse, than it could be favoritism and needs to be squashed for the good of the team, unit, country and even the individual. Sometimes the benefit of discretion outweighs the cost of losing an ace card. Other times it's corruption and needs to be dealt with swiftly and decisively. In my opinion, this topic is lacking necessary variables.
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SFC Observer   Controller/Trainer (Oc/T)
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Sad to say, it has become a norm in the Military. This career is starting to look a lot like the civilian cut throat sector.
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LTC Jesse Edwards
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I don't vote for the leader that doesn't receive punishment for a major event.
Even if she's a woman.
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MSG GregoryT Majewski
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I retired in 1988. Way back then the ranks my field where will blended socially. The problem was the officer ranks. It was way out of proportion. I served my country as a BABY KILLER. 58,479 service members died for their country. Now all services are HERO's
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SGT Alejandro Sarandrea
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Don't become what you hate about the service.
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