Posted on Jan 2, 2014
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Recently I've been hearing countless remarks, and seeing posts from soldiers and veterans alike. Down talking our commander in chief. How do you feel about this? Should this be allowed within our ranks? Does freedom of speech really play a part?<br><br>
Posted in these groups: 
Barack Obama
Respect
Barack Obama Respect
Edited 12 y ago
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 929
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I served under Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, and Clinton, while in Uniform I was A-political, I took an oath to obey the orders of the officers appointed over me. When I retired the gloves are off. I really don't think you lose your right to free speech while in the military, I think that you cannot portray it as being a military position (you cannot attend a political function in Uniform, but you as a citizen have every right to voice your opinion as a citizen
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I'd like to point out that you were downvoted 13 times for asking a question. That's just not cool. Are we trying to discourage discussion here?
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COL Randall Cudworth
Of course, it could probably be that he never include a poll so people were downvoting to indicate a negative to his question ;)
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I see nothing wrong with expressing disagreement with the Commander in Chief, but making disparaging remarks against him is not only a violation of the UCMJ, but it undermines his ability to command. Imagine yourself trashing your Company Commander in a public forum. You know you're going to get spanked for it. This is the Commander in Chief we're talking about here, the tip top of your chain of command. Why should it be any different, if not more severe?
Of course freedom of speech plays a part, but just like any job, if you're intent on being destructive and then talk down to your boss, he's going to fire you. It's a team effort and that kind of unprofessionalism just doesn't make the cut.
Of course freedom of speech plays a part, but just like any job, if you're intent on being destructive and then talk down to your boss, he's going to fire you. It's a team effort and that kind of unprofessionalism just doesn't make the cut.
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Maj (Join to see)
I'd like to add that with respect to veterans, if you're separated from the service, then hell, you've earned the right to say whatever you please. You no longer work for the man(or woman). Although I would caution you. I read somewhere that you run the risk of losing any retirement/pension if the offense is bad enough. I'll research this more and please correct me if I'm wrong.
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COL Randall Cudworth
Maj (Join to see), two things for consideration:
1) Retirees from a regular component (COMPO 1) who are collecting pay are still covered by UCMJ (Article 2 of UCMJ)
2) Article 88 applies to officers making contemptuous remarks.
So ... COMPO 1 retirees who are officers are still covered by Article 88.
If someone violates article 88 will they be punished for it? Maybe. But mostly it won't happen (in the climate of today) unless it makes a media splash of some type.
Additionally, CAN and SHOULD are two difference things - you might not be held responsible for violating the article (for example, enlisted and warrant officers), but that doesn't mean that won't feel the effects for trashing their CIC (or any other senior official for that matter). This is no different from a civilian employee trashing their boss or company being surprised when some bad happens to them (if they can) or more likely if nothing good happens in the future.
1) Retirees from a regular component (COMPO 1) who are collecting pay are still covered by UCMJ (Article 2 of UCMJ)
2) Article 88 applies to officers making contemptuous remarks.
So ... COMPO 1 retirees who are officers are still covered by Article 88.
If someone violates article 88 will they be punished for it? Maybe. But mostly it won't happen (in the climate of today) unless it makes a media splash of some type.
Additionally, CAN and SHOULD are two difference things - you might not be held responsible for violating the article (for example, enlisted and warrant officers), but that doesn't mean that won't feel the effects for trashing their CIC (or any other senior official for that matter). This is no different from a civilian employee trashing their boss or company being surprised when some bad happens to them (if they can) or more likely if nothing good happens in the future.
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SFC Ian Lumgair
I will tell you what, I would love to have my day in court over my critique of how he discharges the office of POTUS. In the United States he is a citizen just like me no more no less. Have we forgotten that? Regulation has never trumped a non serving citizen 1st Amendment rights. I have every right to disagree with his policy and the legality that he governs himself while in office. In fact just this form questions we are obligated to critique the President. That is what we do in a Republic.
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The President of the United States is the Commander-in-Chief, period. I signed the dotted line, it does not matter if I agree with their stance on issues. I make a point not to discuss politics/hot button issues when in uniform or when asked "as a service member" what I think about an issue.
If I were to go on a social media platform and post disrespectful comments about my civilian employer, I should be prepared for the consequences that may result from them. Personally I would like to see each of us holding one another more accountable. Some may disagree, but I would say free speech is an ideal we fully defend but do not fully enjoy. I cannot walk up to my squad leader and exercise free speech, so can I really expect the President to be any different?
We need to reinforce the idea that on duty and off we are soldiers, should act accordingly and provide the example of respect regardless of agreement..
If I were to go on a social media platform and post disrespectful comments about my civilian employer, I should be prepared for the consequences that may result from them. Personally I would like to see each of us holding one another more accountable. Some may disagree, but I would say free speech is an ideal we fully defend but do not fully enjoy. I cannot walk up to my squad leader and exercise free speech, so can I really expect the President to be any different?
We need to reinforce the idea that on duty and off we are soldiers, should act accordingly and provide the example of respect regardless of agreement..
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The problem we have is he isn't "acting" as a commander. He subverts our Constitution and is endangering this nation. I respect the position but don't repect the person.
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Now it's six months later. The POTUS is now committing mass child abuse on our southern border. Is it alright to bash him now.
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SFC (Join to see)
The illegal alien problem consists of Democrats who want the votes and Chamber of Commerce Republicans who want cheap labor( somehow they think the illegals will love them and vote for them eventually).
As far as culture, the non-hypenated American culture. One that puts a emphasis on learning english, obeying the law, doing well in school and working toward a better life. When I had soldiers doing the racial pride (white, black, brown) I crushed that immediately! I said, as far a I can see you are green and American!
I see people who don't respect my country (La Raza is a good example) driving around with no license, no insurance, don't pay taxes and peddling that "Oh America, took the southwest from those poor innocent Mexicans 170 years ago…..so I have the right to be here line". I got a little upset.
And frankly it all feeds into the President's party's policy of appealing to special interest groups and creating more for political gain. The racial unrest in this country the more politicians think they can tap into for political gain.
We are not hispanic-Americans, afro-Americans or even lesbian-irish-left-handed Americans……WE are AMERICANS! A nation based on laws in which the government derives its power from the people.
I got on a tangent there. But back to the thread, as long as we have politicians we divide us to gain power….I can't respect them.
As far as culture, the non-hypenated American culture. One that puts a emphasis on learning english, obeying the law, doing well in school and working toward a better life. When I had soldiers doing the racial pride (white, black, brown) I crushed that immediately! I said, as far a I can see you are green and American!
I see people who don't respect my country (La Raza is a good example) driving around with no license, no insurance, don't pay taxes and peddling that "Oh America, took the southwest from those poor innocent Mexicans 170 years ago…..so I have the right to be here line". I got a little upset.
And frankly it all feeds into the President's party's policy of appealing to special interest groups and creating more for political gain. The racial unrest in this country the more politicians think they can tap into for political gain.
We are not hispanic-Americans, afro-Americans or even lesbian-irish-left-handed Americans……WE are AMERICANS! A nation based on laws in which the government derives its power from the people.
I got on a tangent there. But back to the thread, as long as we have politicians we divide us to gain power….I can't respect them.
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PFC Stephen Eric Serati
SFC Humphries, SFC Ross, I don't mean to point the finger, I'm simply trying to enlighten you of the other sides prospective. One thing I have learned from this conversation is that I agree with some of what Yous say. Thank Yous.
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SFC (Join to see)
PFC Serati,
I appreciate your point of view, I think many (but not all) Americans want the same thing. Its just we differ on how to attain it.
I like discussing issues with people who have other opinions. Sometimes they might change mine, sometimes I learn and sometimes I change theirs. The world is pretty dull when everyone agrees with you.
I appreciate your point of view, I think many (but not all) Americans want the same thing. Its just we differ on how to attain it.
I like discussing issues with people who have other opinions. Sometimes they might change mine, sometimes I learn and sometimes I change theirs. The world is pretty dull when everyone agrees with you.
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United we stand , Divided we fall--think about it. Old but sound advice. Whether you agree with everything a US President does or says is up to you, but publicly speaking while in uniform- remember it is not about YOU. I realize that you may be part of the so called "Me" generation, yet you should have learned to go beyond that when you finished basic training.
Keep it simple. He was elected by the taxpayers that we took an oath to defend. The system has its imperfections, both political and military, but in the end or ends, we volunteered to serve and the elected President is the elected leader of the USA. Every four years we have to opportunity to elect someone else, and the winner may be who we voted for or not....just my two cents worth....
Keep it simple. He was elected by the taxpayers that we took an oath to defend. The system has its imperfections, both political and military, but in the end or ends, we volunteered to serve and the elected President is the elected leader of the USA. Every four years we have to opportunity to elect someone else, and the winner may be who we voted for or not....just my two cents worth....
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CPT Jack Durish
Just one small point, Captain. You took an oath of support and defend the Constitution, not the people, nor the nation, nor the flag. It's a fine point, but an important one. We are in basic agreement on all else. Thank you for your service and I have many fine memories of the care I received at Army medical facilities in Vietnam and elsewhere. Thank you and your fellow care givers.
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SSG William Patton
Capt. Ormond, you are correct, united we stand, divided we fall. I am an old timer and have seen much in my time on the planet, including elite politicans using their positions to feather their own nests and further their own agendas. What is going on in this administration has everything to do with Obama's socialist leanings and execution of a communist model for overwhelming a country. It is working like clockwork. We have immigration laws that are not being enforced by this administration and constitutes malfeascence in office, an impeachable offense. The porous border is allowing more than just immigrants in, but also allowing the criminal element that seek to destroy this nation, if Obama does not beat them to it. He may have been elected, but it was not legitimate and the numbers bear that out. No one in DC seems to give a damn about that either. They took the same oath we did and very few honor it. It is time for a big change and a new direction before it is too late.
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As a retiree who served when Clinton was in office, this is not new. Others of "this age" may remember how it became a public (i.e. outside regular channels) order, addressed in newspapers and in the ranks. The resentment within the military was loud and getting stronger.
That being said, and to sound like a broken record, we signed up without someone forcing us. However, it's not necessarily a bad thing to be critical of leadership AS LONG AS you do the work you voluntarily agreed upon. Whining and bitching about the President, especially if you're simply a
Mouthpiece of Malcontent, makes you a jackass. Investigate everything, be conscious of logos vs pathos in someone's arguments, and again... You signed up. There hasn't been a century yet, since our founding, we haven't been in some war or conflict. Do research - you'd be surprised how much of the same has been done by previous Presidents and their administrations.
Speak with your vote, discuss the topics, and serve honorably.
That being said, and to sound like a broken record, we signed up without someone forcing us. However, it's not necessarily a bad thing to be critical of leadership AS LONG AS you do the work you voluntarily agreed upon. Whining and bitching about the President, especially if you're simply a
Mouthpiece of Malcontent, makes you a jackass. Investigate everything, be conscious of logos vs pathos in someone's arguments, and again... You signed up. There hasn't been a century yet, since our founding, we haven't been in some war or conflict. Do research - you'd be surprised how much of the same has been done by previous Presidents and their administrations.
Speak with your vote, discuss the topics, and serve honorably.
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I'm disappointed that this thread has devolved into a forum for everyone to voice their disdain for the supposed "unconstitutional" actions of our commander-in-chief. The question was, is it appropriate for anyone to be voicing those opinions in our ranks? And the answer is most definitely no. In fact, it isn't appropriate for us to be voicing any political opinions whatsoever within the ranks - someone praising the President can offend someone just as easily as someone criticizing them.
We aren't academics, legal scholars, political pundits, or otherwise, and that is pretty clear by a lot of the comments here. SGM Patterson was spot-on when he said that there seems to be a lot of ignorance in understanding the constitution or the government, because the office of the President is not that of a king - there are two other branches of our government, one of which is arguably much more powerful than the executive. Blaming all of the problems facing our country and military on the commander-in-chief while in uniform is not just inappropriate, it's factually wrong.
Lastly, saying "I have the utmost respect for the office of the commander-in-chief BUT..." is sort of like saying "I'm totally not a racist BUT..." - prefacing it with that sort of statement doesn't make what you're about to say any less disrespectful.
Veterans, this does not apply to you. Rock on and make your voices heard.
We aren't academics, legal scholars, political pundits, or otherwise, and that is pretty clear by a lot of the comments here. SGM Patterson was spot-on when he said that there seems to be a lot of ignorance in understanding the constitution or the government, because the office of the President is not that of a king - there are two other branches of our government, one of which is arguably much more powerful than the executive. Blaming all of the problems facing our country and military on the commander-in-chief while in uniform is not just inappropriate, it's factually wrong.
Lastly, saying "I have the utmost respect for the office of the commander-in-chief BUT..." is sort of like saying "I'm totally not a racist BUT..." - prefacing it with that sort of statement doesn't make what you're about to say any less disrespectful.
Veterans, this does not apply to you. Rock on and make your voices heard.
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