Posted on Jan 8, 2016
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First opening combat mos's is a bad idea. We all know females are structured differently then men. They can't carry as much we some male private be detailed to carry her 100ib pack when she can't. Or have to carry the machine gun to the motor pool when she can't. Will joe snuffy get the same time off when his wife gives birth as she will get. I just don't think this decision was thought out. Don't get me wrong I spent 20 yrs in the service I've seen maybe not all but a lot. How are they going react when they can't shower for two weeks or longer. Will the Officers take pity on them. I know if I was still in I wouldn't.
Posted in these groups: 
Women in the Military
Combat Arms
Women in the Military Combat Arms
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 73
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I professionally train and coach elite male and female athletes to race Ironman triathlon (2.4 mile swim, 112 mile bike and 26.2 mile run). I can tell you that elite females _crush_ most men in the sport. They can finish in near 9hrs or less and the average male finishes near 12hrs. Granted the most elite males are about 10% faster than the most elite females and science bears that out in all sports and physical endeavors via field testing. Bottom line, there are woman who can pull their weight and suffer as well as any man. My opinion is not anecdotal.
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CPT (Join to see)
CPT Pedro Meza - A bullet doesn't care about being PC. Neither will our enemies. Let's not forget that the fundamental purpose of a military is to kill people and break their stuff. Anything that does not contribute to the effectiveness has no purpose. Having to make additional accomodations because women are in an infantry formation does nothing to enhance lethality amongst our forces.
Facts are unbiased and inconvenient things if they refute an agenda.
I will say no more on this other than I have five deployments under my belt as an infantryman (both enlisted and commissioned,) so I have more than a little knowledge of the internal workings of an infantry unit. Maybe those with a little experience on the subject matter should be considered the experts and listened to by those whose only knowledge is hypothetical and agenda driven.
Facts are unbiased and inconvenient things if they refute an agenda.
I will say no more on this other than I have five deployments under my belt as an infantryman (both enlisted and commissioned,) so I have more than a little knowledge of the internal workings of an infantry unit. Maybe those with a little experience on the subject matter should be considered the experts and listened to by those whose only knowledge is hypothetical and agenda driven.
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CPT Pedro Meza
CPT (Join to see) - Interesting idea, perhaps it is time to bring back the WAC (Women Army Corps) so that men like you can feel better; poco hombre.
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CPT Pedro Meza
CPT (Join to see) - Yes I know about You Infantry, you were my Force Protection and followed by vehicle, I also drove you guys nuts because I would take off my vest and leave my weapon with the driver as I talked to villagers.
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CPT Pedro Meza
CPT (Join to see) - This is a Civil Affairs Female from my unit, she did not display your fears. https://memory.loc.gov/diglib/vhp-stories/loc.natlib.afc2 [login to see] 6/
Connie Rose Spinkscollection: Veterans History Project (Library of Congress
Connie Rose Spinks: Veterans History Project of the Library of Congress.
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In my house (admittedly not combat arms) women will be treated exactly the same.
Just like the guidance says.
Just like the guidance says.
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I don't think, once the barriers are dropped, there will be a mad rush to the recruiting offices or careers planners by females wanting to sign up for a combat arm. What this is about is getting a ticket punch for promotion.
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LCpl Steve Smith
to do it right (or as right as possible) they need to start training the females at the Male standard right off the bat in Boot Camp. Yeah the may have a high Drop Rate but for those that pass every swinging dick grunt will know they went through the same shit as they did. Me personally I think they should of had the WM's Boot exactly the same all along.
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I think the way the individual gets treated will greatly depend on their ability to perform the specific job. Regardless of gender.
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GySgt Douglas Dare
And when that female does not hold up her end on the mission who is going to fill the void? Social Experimentation needs to stop NOW!
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TSgt (Join to see)
The situation should be handled the same way as having a male not holding up his end of the mission. Either way, it should be corrected at home station, before a deployment. PT standards should be MOS/AFSC specific. You can't convince me that requiring me to do twice as many pushups and situps as a female my age makes us equally capable.
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Maj Chris Clark
Then the individual proves they cannot hack it, you get rid of them and you have a hole in your unit. Not a good scenario when going in harms way, but better than have a deployed liability.
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Like everything new SFC Dave Wynn it will be shocking to some, emotional to many, and challenging to say the least... But, in the end, like all other changes, it will be fine, so long as we ensure we maintain job/MOS specific standards.
Whether you, me, or anyone thinks this a good idea, really doesn't matter. This is what DOD directed, so our mission as leaders is to figure it out, and ensure in so doing we ensure all are treated with dignity and respect, and the standards are maintained.
If we can't live the changes... in an all volunteer force, then we can find a new line of work.
Whether you, me, or anyone thinks this a good idea, really doesn't matter. This is what DOD directed, so our mission as leaders is to figure it out, and ensure in so doing we ensure all are treated with dignity and respect, and the standards are maintained.
If we can't live the changes... in an all volunteer force, then we can find a new line of work.
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This is not a matter of equality. Woman are simply not men just as a man does not equal a woman. Woman are wired differently and cannot be expected to perform as a man. A man can turn his emotions off much better and even men have a hard time turn them off and back on. Also think of when a girl falls or gets hurt, a man's natural instinct is to help her up, comfort her, and so on. This would be a huge distraction in a firefight.
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Cpl Paul Smith
Cpl David Smith, I am married (24 years) and have 3 daughters, all adults. If they want to join the Marines and enter into a combat role, I would be very concerned and worry endlessly for their safety, like my parents did while I was in and most likely your parents did for your service time. I would be very proud of them for wanting to step up and make a difference. Too many people (82%) of eligible Americans do not join the military, leaving 18% to carry the fight to the enemy and protect our freedoms and way of life. That 82% are the vocal ones that want to change our way of life, gun control laws, pampering illegal immigrants and burning our flag in protest. Then they want to complain about all the nice things we have and forget how we got them and the sacrifices made to get where we are today.
My daughters have decided not to join the military, as yet. They are great marksmen and though it may take time to pick the outfit for dinner, they are great at making smart decisions quickly when it counts. Their only real-life experiences with split-second decisions has been driving on the freeway, but I think we can appreciate how dangerous that is and how split-second decisions can have a good or bad result. It's not live ammo combat, I agree, but it is life or death.
Sorry, about my earlier comment. I have had this discussion with WM's while I was in back in the 80's and they felt they were being unfairly restricted from this important role. There are not a lot of WM's that would want a combat role! Most want the support roles, but for the ones that really want it, for a land of the Free and those in uniform willing to fight for that freedom, why are we holding them back?
Ooh Rah
My daughters have decided not to join the military, as yet. They are great marksmen and though it may take time to pick the outfit for dinner, they are great at making smart decisions quickly when it counts. Their only real-life experiences with split-second decisions has been driving on the freeway, but I think we can appreciate how dangerous that is and how split-second decisions can have a good or bad result. It's not live ammo combat, I agree, but it is life or death.
Sorry, about my earlier comment. I have had this discussion with WM's while I was in back in the 80's and they felt they were being unfairly restricted from this important role. There are not a lot of WM's that would want a combat role! Most want the support roles, but for the ones that really want it, for a land of the Free and those in uniform willing to fight for that freedom, why are we holding them back?
Ooh Rah
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Suspended Profile
GySgt Douglas Dare - You should teach your sons to respect and protect everyone. Chivalry does not die because a woman asks to be treated like any other service member and be allowed to serve her country to the best of her ability, she's not asking you to take her out on a date. Just like we have to learn to separate our personal relationships with the structure of a military unit, male service members need to learn to separate their chivalrous emotions with the task at hand. And that is on them, not the female who is pulling her own weight and has earned her right to serve in whatever combat role she chooses when she fulfills the same training requirements that her male counterpart has.
LCpl Steve Smith
The subject is really a moot point really. There are going to be women in Combat M.O.S.s all we can do is hope they train the women at current Male training standards from Boot Camp Or Basic up through M.O.S. Schools. That would weed out thoughts that can not hack just like it does now for Males. (No Dropping or Changing Standards so they can pass easier. As for How Male Grunts will treat them once they get to their Command? Only time will tell. I'm an old 3/5 Marine P.O.G. and yes in the Grunts we can do some really stupid things when Drunk (That will never Change) but I was in during the L.A. Riots and seem the Racial tensions rise and We dealt with it and I was in Okinawa (Camp Hanson) when Tail Hook came around( Yeah for stupid Air wing O's) and we dealt with that. What a woman Can and can not do during combat is just the same as what a man can do while in combat. NO ONE knows how anyone will act their 1st time in combat and those that have seen it know that. and if you are fighting for your life I highly doubt you are going to be checking out another Grunts Ass are we gentlemen? For those you know that would, I would take issue with them and not have them in my fighting whole because I'm not going to let some horny dude put my life or anyone else's life at risk just because he can't do his Fucking Job. So as long as those Females pass the same standards the Males are already required to do from start to finish I really don't give a fuck.Let them do it, a Marine sending rounds down range is a Marine Sending rounds down Range she's doing it for the same reason you are and that is to try and make sure your ass gets to come home alive and not in a long wooden box with medal handles and a Flag on it. Semper Fi
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I believe the decision has been made and regardless of how one may feel, women are now a part of the "entire" force....think back to your squad or platoon....how did you or your leader handle the weight that had to be distributed and carried among the members of your squad or platoon....if the guy couldn't handle the M-60 did he carry it?....no, it went to the able bodied person that could do it....the ammo, radios. batteries, grenades, flairs, C-4, food and water were all considerations on who carried what and quite frankly if someone was lagging, the loads were rearranged.....I was a Plt Ldr who weighed about 150 lbs in RVN....my pack was sometimes heavy enough that if I had to go to the ground, I swear it would not let me get back up....I felt for my RTO as his load was all I had plus a radio and batteries...any breaks I could give him I did and he never complained.....we got hot, in firefights, and actually relished the opportunity to unload the ammo to get a break hoping that resupply could come quickly.....the Army will adapt and the women found in the ranks will be no different than men who learned to carry their load and perform when they had to....those that could not were soon gone!
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CPT Pedro Meza
14 years in Afghanistan where women have gone out the wire and still are and yet we are having these idiotic conversations by men that probably have not logged the missions that our current Female Warriors have.
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God only knows MAJ Ken Landgren.
Women have been supporting combat formations for some time. When I was in an infantry battalion in the early 1980s we had women at Brigade level and some of the support slice units.
In those days we were preparing for a global war of epic proportions where nobody would be safe. Our GDB mission was die in place and bide time for major formations to arrive.
In the current warfighting environment the situation is much more fluid with no clear lines of battle or non-combatants. Since our enemies don't follow the geneva or hague conventions they indiscriminately target men, women or children.
Women have been supporting combat formations for some time. When I was in an infantry battalion in the early 1980s we had women at Brigade level and some of the support slice units.
In those days we were preparing for a global war of epic proportions where nobody would be safe. Our GDB mission was die in place and bide time for major formations to arrive.
In the current warfighting environment the situation is much more fluid with no clear lines of battle or non-combatants. Since our enemies don't follow the geneva or hague conventions they indiscriminately target men, women or children.
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The question itself is irrelevant. It's not about gender...it's about "OPPORTUNITY." Every man-jack of you out there has some anecdotal experience that shapes your opinion...but stop painting the entire universe with the same brush! I've participated - boots on the ground and NOT behind a desk - in three wars, having walked the face of this planet for FIVE YEARS AND EIGHT MONTHS in full combat (Vietnam, Balkan Conflict, Iraq). I've served side-by-side with females and NEVER found any one of them wanting. Remember Leigh Ann Hester, a NATIONAL GUARD MP out of Kentucky? She and her fellow solders were attacked by an enemy ambush in close quarter combat in 2005 at Salman Pak, Iraq...didn't throw down her weapon, run away, or soil herself. She engaged a superior force and took out as many enemy combatants or more than any other soldier with her and earned a Silver Star for her heroic actions (first female since WWII to do so and first EVER to be cited for close quarter combat). I walked that ground at Salman Pak numerous times and can tell all of you out there that was NOT a place you wanted to be. So much for any asinine opinion about 'week-end warriors.' I would stand side-by-side with any female like that at any time! The rules have been changed. Every door and glass ceiling has been eliminated. Get over it. Females are here to stay and in equal measure to ANY MAN will demonstrate the age old adage that there "is lesser and greater in all things," and I will add - "regardless of gender."
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