Posted on Jun 28, 2015
How does each service view transitions from enlisted to officer
31.4K
58
27
7
7
0
In the Navy we call it going to the Dark Side. I've encouraged many of my E6 and below to take this route due to extremely poor advancement opportunity. Even the folks with advanced degrees pass on it. They want to be a Navy Chief. As a Chief my self I completely understand. Does the drive to become senior enlisted exist in other services?
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 18
When I and thousands of others were commissioned in 1980, I had ten years service and was an E-6. My initial findings were as described, many appreciated us "Mavericks." However, the AF didn't expect us to stay past Captain. When we did, promotions slowed down, but we hung with it. We did the "officer things" of the time, i.e. Master's Degrees, community involvement, joined the Club, etc. We caused a logjam in the promotion cycle and they responded with some pretty nasty SERBs. Their reasoning, published at the time, were "you already have your 20, you can retire." They said nothing about career advancement, remote tours, great OPRs, etc. They would rather "save" a 17 yr poor Major than keep a 24 yr excellent Major. Yes, I was SERB'd, and I was bitter. However, some things come around and 15 yrs later they asked me to come back for two years (pictured)! I retired again in 2011!
(1)
(0)
Sgt J Armstrong
Maj Greene,
As a former AF buck Sgt, I want to let you know that my best experiences were serving under a "Mustang" Captain. He definitely led by example from the trenches and was a real asset to the AF in his role of an officer. Unfortunately, rated officers run the show in the AF and that pretty much precludes prior enlisted officers from obtaining equal status, since most of them are past the age limits imposed on flight training.
As a former AF buck Sgt, I want to let you know that my best experiences were serving under a "Mustang" Captain. He definitely led by example from the trenches and was a real asset to the AF in his role of an officer. Unfortunately, rated officers run the show in the AF and that pretty much precludes prior enlisted officers from obtaining equal status, since most of them are past the age limits imposed on flight training.
(2)
(0)
The Army has quite a bit of bias against former enlisted. They are still never regarded as 'one of the guys' and the Army keeps adding arbitrary roadblocks (Active federal service time limits, which have been getting shorter ect...) Frankly, the Army would rather have a high school kid before they would rather have enlisted swine. It is even in our regs if a cadet is present, they would take command over an NCO in the unlikely event that all the officers are killed. You'll also find that bias against enlisted continues into the civilian world. I've a buddy that almost had to fire his production manager who didn't like it when he found out his boss for over a year was a former NCO. I know my policy as a civilian will be to never hire them. I need employees that are accustomed to following the rules not accustomed to finding creative ways to interpret their way around them.
(1)
(0)
For me when I was on active duty, I and many others in a Victor unit (Grunt Unit) appreciated when we had a Mustang in-charge. I was lucky enough to have my section O.I.C be a Mustang and Our Battalion Commander be one too. Mustangs knew what it was like to be an enlisted person and what we when through as enlisted compared to an Officer so they would lead in a different way from the officers that Just went through O.C.S. from collage. Mustangs would sometimes the 1st (Officers) to jump in and help he's enlisted with duty's that would require physical hands on work. Now I'm not saying non mustangs didn't get down and dirty with their enlisted people when needed, I'm sure hey do. It just from my experience Mustangs jump in faster and treat their people a little better (For The most Part) because they went through the same shitty duty's while they were enlisted as we did when they were officers.
(1)
(0)
LCpl Steve Smith
one of the funny differences between a Mustang and non Mustang is the saluting...Non Mustang Butter bars. we had to salute every time we saw them, even if you worked around an area you would be guarantied to see them several times that day (loved making them return multiple salutes till they got tired of returning it). Mustangs would do the 1st return salute then tell you they will be in the area all day so that 1st salute was good enough...lol
(1)
(0)
Most Army folks are pretty conscious of the pay gap; however, no one envies the officer's job, either. The happy medium is going nurse, PA, or doctor. That feels like a logical career progression to many in the enlisted medical ranks at least.
(1)
(0)
Each branch will always have those that don't look favorable upon those that choose the commissioning route. I was enlisted first, then went to OCS. I'm glad I did. I encourage any enlisted personnel who thinks they can serve as a commissioned officer to do so. My son is an Army National Guard Soldier. He was also an ROTC cadet but is no longer. Whether he remains enlisted or gets commissioned or even warrant, I am confident that he will do well which ever path he chooses. No one is forced to choose a path: enlisted, warrant, or commissioned. But we each do choose one of those three paths...
(1)
(0)
The drive does exist. I am an Army Medic, SSG, and see PA as my career goal. However, if someone came to me and said drop that nonsense, instead you’ve got a guaranteed chance to make 1SG and SGM, I think I would take it.
Officers plan and sit in meetings. They have authority, but it’s authority by committee. The power senior officers hold over their junior officers is unreal.
NCO make men. It feels to me like a more direct experience of leadership, barring officers’ command role.
Officers plan and sit in meetings. They have authority, but it’s authority by committee. The power senior officers hold over their junior officers is unreal.
NCO make men. It feels to me like a more direct experience of leadership, barring officers’ command role.
(0)
(0)

Suspended Profile
I have not noticed any reduction in their thus far stellar performance. The Richmond VA facility is fantastic. How they pull it off without the support of Congress is beyond me.
I did generally have more respect for LDO's/CWO's than I did for Ensign Billy Bobo fresh out of Annapolis/OCS/ROTC.
(1)
(1)
PO1 John Miller
Hey Waliq Knolle you coward, care to explain why the drive by down vote with no explanation?
The OP asked for opinions and I gave mine you disrespectful little turd!
The OP asked for opinions and I gave mine you disrespectful little turd!
(1)
(0)
LCpl Steve Smith
PO1 John Miller - lol Chill out man, not everyone's going to agree with you. not everyone agrees with me either. Give him a break he's a Lance Coolie lol. So Maybe he hasn't had the pleasure of working with a Mustang or a College kid just out of OCS, to be able to notice the Big difference between how the two lead. The you ng Man is active duty and a little Green give him time to get Jaded man lol. You and I have been there done that with the Big Green Weenie. LCpl Waliq Thank you from one old 3/5 brother to another Semper Fi. and stay safe.
(0)
(0)
PO1 John Miller
LCpl Steve Smith, if a down vote is explained (just as Rally Point suggests that one be) I would not have reacted the way I did. But since he did the drive by, that makes me question his manhood.
(1)
(0)
PO3 Jay Rose
PO1 John Miller - Dude! For real, you’re comments made me smile :) I upvoted you, and agree that I have more respect for an ENS LDO with 15-years of service, than a fresh new “butter bar boot.” Why? Because I’ve known LDOs, including the information systems security officer abound the “Gee Dub.” He was a butter bar that was older... and wiser. I didn’t have a ton of interactions with him, but as a DISSO, I did have enough interactions to see that he very much knew his shit, and was a positive leader. I would attribute a lot of this to him being on the “blue” side before going “gold.” Some junior officers could be amazing leaders, but like all of us, we won’t know until they put in their dues, so your opinion is quite understandable. As for opinions in general, some suck, but that’s why we serve, to protect the freedom of each and every one of us to voice their opinion, whether we like it or not.
(0)
(0)
Read This Next