Posted on Jun 28, 2015
CPO Gregory Smith
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In the Navy we call it going to the Dark Side. I've encouraged many of my E6 and below to take this route due to extremely poor advancement opportunity. Even the folks with advanced degrees pass on it. They want to be a Navy Chief. As a Chief my self I completely understand. Does the drive to become senior enlisted exist in other services?
Posted in these groups: Green to gold logo Green to GoldEnlisted logo EnlistedMilitary civilian 600x338 Transition
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MAJ Vic Artiga
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I started my career as an enlisted Soldier and ended it as a major. Being prior enlisted did give me a better understanding of what life was like for the Soldiers. When I was in the field artillery most of my NCOs would tell me the same thing, "I see how your guys (officers) get treated and I want no part of it". I later switched to intelligence. Most of my NCOs there saw becoming a warrant officer was a better route.
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LT Bill Rockett
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Speaking from the perspective of being a Maverick (enlisted to officer), I see it a bit differently. I agree that it is an honorable choice to continue to progress through the ranks to the most prestigious and influential rank of E-9 (Master Chief), but there are a number of jobs that can't be done as an enlisted person like Pilot, NFO (Naval Flight Officer), Doctor, Nurse, etc. that require the rank of O-1 and above. I think if one desires to do certain jobs or even to be able to command a ship, squadron, Intelligence Unit, etc. the jump to Officer is necessary.
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PO1 John Miller
PO1 John Miller
10 y
LT Bill Rockett, back in the "old days" there was an enlisted Naval rating called Naval Aviation Pilot (NAP). These were enlisted men who were pilots.

http://bluejacket.com/nap_index.htm
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1stSgt Edward Jackson
1stSgt Edward Jackson
10 y
The USAAC, USAAF, and USAF had enlisted pilots back during WWII and slightly after that. The USAF continued with "aviation cadet pilots" until the early 1960s.
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LTC John Shaw
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CPO Gregory Smith MSgt Mike Mikulski
You are both right, Senior NCO have far more influence than Junior officers and it takes many years for the pay to reach even. Bottom line, for some it is opportunity in the officer Corps to start again and train for a different experience.
The Reserves and National Guard is the greatest beneficiary of these transfers better for the experiences and ideas, not that we always know how to take advantage of the skills and capabilities. Commissioned officers have 28 years up to O-5, I hit that MRD 2016 and will be out. I can see a significant advantage to enlisting for 4-8 years then moving to the warrant officer or officer rank.
I will be in retired reserve for 10 years prior to any retirement pay, but it will be nice to focus on one job and have weekends for the family. I have always had 2-3 weekends a month for Reserves for the last 30 years.
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LCpl Steve Smith
LCpl Steve Smith
10 y
lol I've witnessed a Butter bar get locked on when trying to tell the battalion SgtMaj. he couldn't smoke in Battalion...lol our Battalion Commander made sure that butter bar knew where he stood when it can to telling our SgtMaj what he could and could not do in his own office...lol (I just happened to in the HQ building at that time)
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How does each service view transitions from enlisted to officer
1SG Ronnie Miller
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I can relate to Enlisted personnel that wan't to remain that way. Especially if they are smart and hard working. I turned down the Officer ranks twice to be able to reach my goal of becoming a First Sergeant. I know I could have made more money as an Officer but sometimes living a Dream is more important. If I could do it all over I would still choose the Diamond.
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LCDR William Breyfogle
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As a proud Mustang, I've experienced life in both worlds. Frankly, when I finally made CPO (PHC--Chief Photographer's Mate) I would have been quite content to stay at that level and explore "deckplate management." However, since it seemed to be taking forever to get promoted to Chief, I also had previously applied for LDO (Mustang Officer.) Got accepted, and made the transition next year. Biggest discovery (aside from the pay raise, which was nice) was that neither the Chief's Mess nor the Wardroom really knew what to do with me. Many chief's actually referred to Mustang offices as "quitters" and closed us out of the camaraderie of the Mess. At the same time, I was considerably older and more experienced than the other junior officers in the Wardroom and they -- naturally -- preferred to hang around with officers their own age (and hair color.) Once I put aside caring about that stuff, I came into my own and became (I think, at least) a fairly effective leader.
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LT Submarine Watch Officer
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I started out enlisted in the National Guard and always intended to at least become an NCO before comissioning. However not being able to find a civilian job and have an excellent option to commission active duty Navy, I went for it. Plenty of people in the Guard joked about going officer as going to the 'dark side,' but I received nothing but support and encouragement in my career choice. And while plenty of NCO's I have known would never want to commission they tend to show more respect to a prior enlisted officer.
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CDR Matthew McLaughlin
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First, a little background. I'm a Navy Reserve Mustang (although not in the traditional LDO/CWO sense) with 36 years total service, and I've also worked for the Army as a civilian for the last 10 years. I did 6 years active in subs as a nuke MM, made MMC in the reserve and wore the anchors for 8 years before accepting a direct commission as an Engineering Duty Officer. I made the CDR list for FY16, and probably won't take off the uniform until the month before I get my first retirement check at age 60.
In my experience, the drive for a PARTICULAR senior enlisted paygrade is by far the greatest in the Navy; there's nothing like the CPO in the other services, although the USMC Gunny carries a certain mystique as well. It appears to me that in the Army, once you make Sergeant (E-5), the next MAJOR recognition doesn't come until SGM. There are those who target SGM, but it's a very narrow pyramid at that point. This also seems to represent how these enlisted are treated by the officer community; unless they've got the diamond of a First Sergeant, the Sergeants are largely lumped together. I know this is an over simplification, and that there are exceptions, but this is what I've seen relative to the Navy. Re: the Air Force, I honestly haven't a clue.
I also don't see the same attitude toward former enlisted officers in the Army as in the Navy. The Navy has a very strong tradition of Mustangs, and the presumption is that they're competent. I think this is partly based in the CWO/LDO model, where the enlisted member must be at least E-6 and eligible for promotion to E-7 to be selected for commission. Even with the Annapolis tradition, Mustangs hold their own. The Army seems different, although I've been told that's been changing some recently. Maverick Army officers are not generally seen in a default positive light like Mustang Navy officers are, and not a few senior Army officers seem dismissive of former enlisted in their ranks.
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CPO Engineering Geologist
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Same with the Coast Guard. I have my degrees...but as a reserve, I much prefer my role as senior enlisted. Even though we push Reserve Officer Training to our junior members, most prefer to pass on going to the "Dark Side" and build an enlisted career path.
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CPO Bernard Bellew
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Edited >1 y ago
At one sea command the C.O. was an academy graduate who despised ex-enlisted officers and enlisted personnel in general. At one shore command I saw many junior 7's make LDO. I personally believed they were nothing special outside of being political and well liked...I was not one. Most Navy ex-enlisted types seem to look down on enlisted personnel after they put on the bars.
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SFC Petroleum Supply Specialist
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I am enlisted and I will stay enlisted for LIFE!
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