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Okay, this isn't about me...for many reasons. I have a teenage daughter who is in her school's JROTC, has good grades, is considering joining the Civil Air Patrol, and is getting a job to--and I quote--"afford flying lessons", and wants to fly into the "wild blue yonder" as a pilot in the Air Force. She's a teen, so everything is subject to change on a whim, but she has been on this kick ever since she took her first commercial flight over a year ago. In your opinion, aside from attending the AF Academy, what would be a wise path for her if she were to pursue being a pilot?
Thanks.
Thanks.
Pilot
Officer
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 11
Become an Air Force Pilot: Step-by-Step Career Guide
Learn what it takes to become an Air Force pilot. Learn about training and other requirements, along with salary and job outlook info. Also take a look at the step-by-step process.
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Here's a good start point for your daughter. May she excel and soar into the blue yonder.
https://www.airforce.com/careers/detail/pilot?gclsrc=aw.ds&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIn4nemsat5QIVjonICh0-VQ-EEAAYASAAEgLJrfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
https://www.airforce.com/careers/detail/pilot?gclsrc=aw.ds&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIn4nemsat5QIVjonICh0-VQ-EEAAYASAAEgLJrfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
U.S. Air Force - Career Detail - Pilot
Welcome to the United States Air Force. Learn about great opportunities for enlisted airmen, officers and health care professionals.
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SGT Dave Tracy if she gets the right scores on the AFOQT to qualify to be a pilot, then UPT will teach her how to fly. If she learns to fly prior to going to UPT, she will sit doing, essentially, CQ duty until her class "catches up to her" in the training cycle.
All this is info from one of my buddies that went through UPT having already known how to fly single engine planes.
Has she thought about AFROTC? She's going to need her bachelor's to be an officer, anyways. There are tons of AFOQT prep books available - similar to ACT/SAT prep books.
All this is info from one of my buddies that went through UPT having already known how to fly single engine planes.
Has she thought about AFROTC? She's going to need her bachelor's to be an officer, anyways. There are tons of AFOQT prep books available - similar to ACT/SAT prep books.
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SGT Dave Tracy -I went into Naval Aviation, but I imagine much of what I can relate would be relevant. First, your daughter should be very realistic about what military aviation "is" and "isn't" compared to other aviation career options. Let's say she just wants to fly for the love of flying...she could go to a reputable aviation "pipeline" college and come out with a "guarantee" of employment at some level with an airline, or (the starvation route) as an instructor. She could go up to Alaska and work her way through the "dregs" and end up flying old iron like C-47s and all the planes every pilot dreams of flying. She could go into another, lucrative career field...get her PPL, buy her own plane, and fly whenever she felt like it (and the weather permitted it)...
...that, or she can try for one of the highly coveted slots for military flight training.
The advantages of going through the Academy is that over that four years, she'd have time to figure out that becoming an officer is the primary goal-becoming an aviation officer is the second. She'd network with people who are and will be among the career officers in that field. If she decides to go another route, or doesn't quite have the "right stuff" (I hate that phrase actually)...there are other options, and the Academy generally filters folks into the fields they have the best chance of succeeding at (but not always...trust me). That being said, ROTC will give her more of a "real world" university experience...and possibly provide her a more mature, realistic outlook on her options. OCS is a tried and true route to the cockpit...and if flying is her main goal, may actually prove the swiftest route, all things considered. However, she should bear in mind it's a numbers game, and the rules are ALWAYS changing! My class had many flight slots available... the one prior, may not have. Like anything in the Military, it's about being as highly ranked as you can be.
Most folks who don't make it (who have already passed the rather difficult challenges of getting a commission and service assignment to aviation), seem to fall during the initial physical, emotional, and mental stresses of what the Navy calls Aviation Pre-Flight Indoctrination (API); I'm not sure what the Air Force equivalent is, but I know we had Air Force officers in our classes. For the Navy, water survival is a critical component of the training...I seem to recall the Air Force folks could opt out of certain tests, but most didn't. Some folks just can't take not being able to breathe, panic, and decide this isn't the life for them. Others, can't keep up with the classwork...it's feeding from a fire hose, lots of memorization/recall, and very systems oriented.
In my case, what "broke" me wasn't what "broke" most of my classmates who ended up "washing out". I found API challenging...but made it alright enough. I had a "knack" for memorization, and did very well in briefings. I loved planes, and understood systems well...and I loved flying. I did well enough, initially, that I was even moved into a class that was doing two "X's" (planned, graded flights) per day at one point...and got "talked into" going tactical aviation vs. the "safer" maritime patrol route by my CO.
But navigation turned out being my personal demon.
I didn't have 20/20 uncorrected vision, so NFO was my route...and that means a lot of navigation, radio comms, flight coordination...all the "boring stuff" most people don't really think about when they see their first airshow and fall in love with flight. You're up there with an instructor, being graded constantly, on rather impressive standards of accuracy...to me, it felt like trying to find a flying golf ball in the clouds, at night, with a compass and a stop watch. At some point, I just got to where life seemed like an endless circuit of staying up late practicing checklists, getting up at "O'Dark Early" to revise weather cards, then enduring four hours of non-stop, heart-rending stress trying not to "pink" a checkride...knowing all the while, that THIS was the life I was working so hard to repeat for the next twenty or more years. Ultimately, I decided it wasn't the life for me.
Later on, I realized that I had made the right choice...but I made it too late, and for all the wrong reasons. The Navy never forgot that I DOR'd...didn't matter what else I did well, or what I volunteered for, or how much I "proved" myself elsewhere-As far as the Navy was concerned, I was, am, and always will be a "quitter". I've lived nearly two decades haunted by that...and to this day, am still seeking ways to prove to them, and myself, that I'm no "quitter". Sometimes, I get close...but I doubt I'll ever totally succeed.
I apologize for such a long response...but it's the kind of thing I wish a military aviator had told me when I was trying to decide what to do with my career. Like many things, dreams change over time, and now...at 41, I would rather tackle a winter FTX than I would go back to flying. If this is a passion that will stick with your daughter, I can tell you that I have friends for whom the life has been truly blessed. One of my closest friends retires soon having had two tours as a Blue Angel, headed up Hornet programs, and had a truly distinguished career as a fighter pilot.
...that, or she can try for one of the highly coveted slots for military flight training.
The advantages of going through the Academy is that over that four years, she'd have time to figure out that becoming an officer is the primary goal-becoming an aviation officer is the second. She'd network with people who are and will be among the career officers in that field. If she decides to go another route, or doesn't quite have the "right stuff" (I hate that phrase actually)...there are other options, and the Academy generally filters folks into the fields they have the best chance of succeeding at (but not always...trust me). That being said, ROTC will give her more of a "real world" university experience...and possibly provide her a more mature, realistic outlook on her options. OCS is a tried and true route to the cockpit...and if flying is her main goal, may actually prove the swiftest route, all things considered. However, she should bear in mind it's a numbers game, and the rules are ALWAYS changing! My class had many flight slots available... the one prior, may not have. Like anything in the Military, it's about being as highly ranked as you can be.
Most folks who don't make it (who have already passed the rather difficult challenges of getting a commission and service assignment to aviation), seem to fall during the initial physical, emotional, and mental stresses of what the Navy calls Aviation Pre-Flight Indoctrination (API); I'm not sure what the Air Force equivalent is, but I know we had Air Force officers in our classes. For the Navy, water survival is a critical component of the training...I seem to recall the Air Force folks could opt out of certain tests, but most didn't. Some folks just can't take not being able to breathe, panic, and decide this isn't the life for them. Others, can't keep up with the classwork...it's feeding from a fire hose, lots of memorization/recall, and very systems oriented.
In my case, what "broke" me wasn't what "broke" most of my classmates who ended up "washing out". I found API challenging...but made it alright enough. I had a "knack" for memorization, and did very well in briefings. I loved planes, and understood systems well...and I loved flying. I did well enough, initially, that I was even moved into a class that was doing two "X's" (planned, graded flights) per day at one point...and got "talked into" going tactical aviation vs. the "safer" maritime patrol route by my CO.
But navigation turned out being my personal demon.
I didn't have 20/20 uncorrected vision, so NFO was my route...and that means a lot of navigation, radio comms, flight coordination...all the "boring stuff" most people don't really think about when they see their first airshow and fall in love with flight. You're up there with an instructor, being graded constantly, on rather impressive standards of accuracy...to me, it felt like trying to find a flying golf ball in the clouds, at night, with a compass and a stop watch. At some point, I just got to where life seemed like an endless circuit of staying up late practicing checklists, getting up at "O'Dark Early" to revise weather cards, then enduring four hours of non-stop, heart-rending stress trying not to "pink" a checkride...knowing all the while, that THIS was the life I was working so hard to repeat for the next twenty or more years. Ultimately, I decided it wasn't the life for me.
Later on, I realized that I had made the right choice...but I made it too late, and for all the wrong reasons. The Navy never forgot that I DOR'd...didn't matter what else I did well, or what I volunteered for, or how much I "proved" myself elsewhere-As far as the Navy was concerned, I was, am, and always will be a "quitter". I've lived nearly two decades haunted by that...and to this day, am still seeking ways to prove to them, and myself, that I'm no "quitter". Sometimes, I get close...but I doubt I'll ever totally succeed.
I apologize for such a long response...but it's the kind of thing I wish a military aviator had told me when I was trying to decide what to do with my career. Like many things, dreams change over time, and now...at 41, I would rather tackle a winter FTX than I would go back to flying. If this is a passion that will stick with your daughter, I can tell you that I have friends for whom the life has been truly blessed. One of my closest friends retires soon having had two tours as a Blue Angel, headed up Hornet programs, and had a truly distinguished career as a fighter pilot.
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SGT Dave Tracy
Well LCDR Joshua Gillespie, at least you may have reassured me that I dodged a bullet when--in my misspent youth--I once considered Marine Corp aviation, and opted to do other things in life! LOL!
See, this is the kind of walk-though I like: Experience beyond an FAQ sheet!
My daughter recently read about the military's pilot shortage, and that has fired her up all the more. I warned her that this may not mean anything in a few years, because the situation may well change (as you alluded to). As for being a commercial pilot, she hasn't said anything about that. And when it comes to whether having a PPL would do her any favors in getting into military aviation, I don't even PRETEND to have an opinion, but she thinks it could help. I don't know whether or not she gave Navy or any other branch's aviation any thoughts, but her exposure to high school AF JROTC is probably why she leans Air Force. She still has a couple years left, so we'll see, but its good to be armed with knowledge.
It's unfortunate that the Navy was a bit less than charitable to you after the fact, but you can still hold you head up high. You did more, and got farther, in your military time than many of us.
Thanks for the insight!
See, this is the kind of walk-though I like: Experience beyond an FAQ sheet!
My daughter recently read about the military's pilot shortage, and that has fired her up all the more. I warned her that this may not mean anything in a few years, because the situation may well change (as you alluded to). As for being a commercial pilot, she hasn't said anything about that. And when it comes to whether having a PPL would do her any favors in getting into military aviation, I don't even PRETEND to have an opinion, but she thinks it could help. I don't know whether or not she gave Navy or any other branch's aviation any thoughts, but her exposure to high school AF JROTC is probably why she leans Air Force. She still has a couple years left, so we'll see, but its good to be armed with knowledge.
It's unfortunate that the Navy was a bit less than charitable to you after the fact, but you can still hold you head up high. You did more, and got farther, in your military time than many of us.
Thanks for the insight!
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LCDR Joshua Gillespie
I've heard lots of aviators' opinions regarding the benefit of a PPL prior to entering training: some say it does zilch...others swear by it. As I understand it, current Midshipmen at USNA going aviation MUST complete one while there (can't be 100% certain if that's accurate). My thoughts are that it would "weed out" anyone who simply didn't have core competencies for flying...but it has to be factored against the fact that a civilian instructor is PAID to get you a license, and only has to get you to the point you can pass with an FAA examiner. Military aviation pipelines include planned attrition...budgets...etc, etc. I'm sure many a "good" flyer has "flunked" military aviation. Obviously, I wasn't ever in the Air Force, but my sense of it is that their pilots are the "elite" officers...and I can only surmise at the political, social, and career implications that entails. For myself, I rather enjoyed being as far from the "flagpole" as I could get.
Thank you also for your kind words. Looking back, I don't begrudge the Navy-I actually somewhat endorse how they treated the situation. We're the best Armed Forces in the world, and that's largely because we demand excellence. My only regret is that I can't be seventeen again, and aspire for other challenges that in my "middle aged" mind...I wonder if I may not have had better fortunes in.
Thank you also for your kind words. Looking back, I don't begrudge the Navy-I actually somewhat endorse how they treated the situation. We're the best Armed Forces in the world, and that's largely because we demand excellence. My only regret is that I can't be seventeen again, and aspire for other challenges that in my "middle aged" mind...I wonder if I may not have had better fortunes in.
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Double check if your daughter meets medical requirements. Although she may have desire, she should ensure vision and other body related issues are within standards
https://www.airforce.com/frequently-asked-questions/medical/
https://www.airforce.com/frequently-asked-questions/medical/
Welcome to the United States Air Force. Learn about great opportunities for enlisted airmen, officers and health care professionals.
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SGT Dave Tracy
She's fine in all these regards. No vision, medial or personal issues. Height/weight proportional. Academics are fine; participates in athletics.
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ROTC is always an option. Scholarship applications are due December 1 of an prospective cadet's high school senior year. Even if she doesn't get a scholarship, she can still do ROTC and pursue becoming a pilot that way.
https://www.afrotc.com/
https://www.afrotc.com/
Offered at more than 1,100 colleges and universities across the country, Air Force ROTC develops the leaders of tomorrow by preparing students to become officers in the U.S. Air Force while earning a college degree. In AFROTC, you’ll not only build lifelong friendships, but you may also have the opportunity to pay for school through our scholarship programs. Most importantly, unlike many other college students, you’ll have a rewarding career...
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Have really good grades, because that's what makes a good pilot. (Dripping with sarcasm in case you didn't notice.) But seriously, she really needs to go talk to the AFROTC APMS, and now. The Air Force tracks potential pilots way our front. If you don't get in the pilot track, you end up in missile command or some REMF job.
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LTC Eugene Chu
True, but there is caveat. Most Army helicopter pilots are warrant officers. Junior commissioned officers do have some piloting time, but transition to desk job after promotion.
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Air Force Father, but I don't think the requirements have changed in 50 years. 1. You have to have a bachelor's degree, preferably in one of the STEM degrees and you need a GPA of 3.4 and above (let's me out), you have to be an Officer, you have to pass the AFOQT, and you have pass the flight physical. Then you need to pass both phases of flight school. That's about the end of what I know. You can commission in the Air Force AFROTC, OTC (their version of OCS), or the Academy. One thing about Air Force OTC, you don't have to go through enlisted BCT like in the Army. Dad would have liked it if I went that way, but I didn't see that I could get flight school and about the only other job that interested me is a Combat Air Controller. I figured if I was going to be a ground pounder, I might as well join the Army.
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CPT Lawrence Cable
And if she can get into the Academy, damn straight she should go that route. One of the top three best free educations in the US/world (all of which are the service Academies) and a social network that will last the rest of her life.
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LCDR Joshua Gillespie
CPT Lawrence Cable -Speaking as a "ring knocker", I'll toss in some words of caution on all of that. For starters, the Academy is anything but "free"-If you factor in the costs through high school to participate in the sports and other extracurricular activities virtually REQUIRED to be competitive, the "offset payment" for initial issue of computer, etc, the "Mid Store credit", and a few other bells and whistles...it's still a pricey proposition; though admittedly nothing compared to other institutions. As for it being the "best" academic institution, bear in mind that we don't say, "2.0 and Go!" for nothing...the primary goal is to produce officers, and there's a lot that goes into the QPR (kinda like a GPA) that has little to nothing to do with coursework. If you go for a technical degree, such as engineering...yes, it's impressive, but many GREAT future officers come out with a "B.S." in humanities (which trust me, confuses the heck out of employers later in life LOL!). The network is a real thing...but there's a sting in the tail. Like anything, not everyone who gets to the top is by necessity the "best"...and "blackballing" is still a thing. There's the "Silence", which I imagine still exists in some form, and frankly...having it known that you're an Academy grad can impart a negative image on your peers, superiors, and subordinates, long before they ever get to see you in person. Don't get me wrong-am grateful for those four years, and all the memories...but given a chance to do it over, I think I'd have chosen a different route. It's a family you can join...but at times, it's a very "dysfunctional" family.
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CPT Lawrence Cable
LCDR Joshua Gillespie - I said free, I didn't mean to imply easy. One of my cross country teammates got a West Point appointment. Like you said, star athlete, active in the extra curricular's and probably had a GPA of 3.8 or better. So the competition for slots seem to be pretty intense.
While it is beyond me why you wouldn't pursue a STEM degree there, although I am aware that the purpose is to produce officers. However, I will contend that ANY degree from the Naval Academy, West Point, etc, carries a lot more weight than a degree for Morehead State with potential employers, right or wrong.
And Patton repeated his Pleb year and finished 46th out of 103 graduates.
In general, my experience with "Ring Knockers" was generally fairly positive. Only a couple that could be annoying plus one that I butted heads with on a number of occasions. A staff officer that had a tendency to step across the chain of command and on a couple events, wasn't being as "ethical" as he should of been. I called him on it a couple of times that ended up in front of the Commander, who did support me (mainly because I was absolutely correct. I tried not to fight stupid battles). That didn't sit well with him.
While it is beyond me why you wouldn't pursue a STEM degree there, although I am aware that the purpose is to produce officers. However, I will contend that ANY degree from the Naval Academy, West Point, etc, carries a lot more weight than a degree for Morehead State with potential employers, right or wrong.
And Patton repeated his Pleb year and finished 46th out of 103 graduates.
In general, my experience with "Ring Knockers" was generally fairly positive. Only a couple that could be annoying plus one that I butted heads with on a number of occasions. A staff officer that had a tendency to step across the chain of command and on a couple events, wasn't being as "ethical" as he should of been. I called him on it a couple of times that ended up in front of the Commander, who did support me (mainly because I was absolutely correct. I tried not to fight stupid battles). That didn't sit well with him.
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To clarify, yeah, I can Google with the best of them--though do I appreciate a good online lead of course--but its opinion on the best way to go about it (Hench why I asked for opinions on the "wise(st) path"). And the opinions of those who have been there or are close enough to having been there I appreciate the most.
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