Posted on Nov 2, 2022
How important is an NCO's reference on the civilian side? Can an NCO ruin my chance at a civilian job post military?
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I am soon to rcp out of military. I love my profession as a lab tec but have always been terrible at the army side. I struggle with pt and since I only get to go to the range once a year, I am perpetually short a hundred promotion points.
I've always been content to do my job and been satisfied with e-4 pay, since I love the lab and e-5s usually are forced to leave it. I am nationally certified for my job, but my family has made it extremely clear that they would rather see me in a body bag then out of the army which is why I remained in so long.
A year ago we have gotten a new NCO who hates me. He has stated loudly and in front of peers that he thought I was worthless because I was still 'just a specialist' that my professional experience in lab was 'unimportant/not the mission', that 'certain people shouldn't serve if they can't keep up', and that it was a 'waste of resources' to send me to any educational schools. He openly mocks me in front of my peers and the command. This man is my first line.
Recently, he stated that he thought my 10 years in the army was a waste and that civilians knew the difference between a Sgt and a spc, that no one would hire me, and he sure to hell wouldn't write me a job recommendation.
I am a good lab tec, have served honorably without demerit, and have never been flagged. There has never been an issue with my performance as a lab tech and I take immense pride in what i do. I have won several awards for what I do. I have also always met the standard army requirements. But with his influence, I have been treated like a leper in the military side for the past six months, with severe damage to my mental health.
I am terrified that this man can severely harm my chances of getting a job in the civilian sect. Our qa said hed gladly write a recommendation. I have several officers i worked with at my last duty station who would gladly as well. All the civilian laboratory staff is highly satisfied with my work and will make good references. However
i do not get interact with the command except for pt test and range so their only knowledge of me is through him. On top of that, I have to survive another 6 months under him before I can ets.
My ability to work in the lab will be my sole source of support upon exiting. I may not be a stellar soldier but im a good lab tec. What steps can I take to guard my chance at a civilian job? Could his opinion cause a severe issue especially if I wanted to get a government job?
I've always been content to do my job and been satisfied with e-4 pay, since I love the lab and e-5s usually are forced to leave it. I am nationally certified for my job, but my family has made it extremely clear that they would rather see me in a body bag then out of the army which is why I remained in so long.
A year ago we have gotten a new NCO who hates me. He has stated loudly and in front of peers that he thought I was worthless because I was still 'just a specialist' that my professional experience in lab was 'unimportant/not the mission', that 'certain people shouldn't serve if they can't keep up', and that it was a 'waste of resources' to send me to any educational schools. He openly mocks me in front of my peers and the command. This man is my first line.
Recently, he stated that he thought my 10 years in the army was a waste and that civilians knew the difference between a Sgt and a spc, that no one would hire me, and he sure to hell wouldn't write me a job recommendation.
I am a good lab tec, have served honorably without demerit, and have never been flagged. There has never been an issue with my performance as a lab tech and I take immense pride in what i do. I have won several awards for what I do. I have also always met the standard army requirements. But with his influence, I have been treated like a leper in the military side for the past six months, with severe damage to my mental health.
I am terrified that this man can severely harm my chances of getting a job in the civilian sect. Our qa said hed gladly write a recommendation. I have several officers i worked with at my last duty station who would gladly as well. All the civilian laboratory staff is highly satisfied with my work and will make good references. However
i do not get interact with the command except for pt test and range so their only knowledge of me is through him. On top of that, I have to survive another 6 months under him before I can ets.
My ability to work in the lab will be my sole source of support upon exiting. I may not be a stellar soldier but im a good lab tec. What steps can I take to guard my chance at a civilian job? Could his opinion cause a severe issue especially if I wanted to get a government job?
ETS/EAS
Job/Skill Training
Resume
Job Loss
Posted 3 y ago
Responses: 15
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Don't ask him for a reference and carry on. If you want references, get them from the others you mentioned. You don't need a reference from this guy, and nobody will know or care who he is/was. While I would know the differences between a SPC/CPL/SGT, 93.74% [number made up, but I bet it's close] will neither know nor care. His opinion is completely irrelevant unless he is going to stalk your job applications and give unsolicited negative recommendations.
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As you will learn in life, you should position yourself to pick and choose your references that best serves your agenda. If you "must" include someone or something in your past that you'd rather not, there are ways around it. The more bureaucratic the better. The Army in this regard couldn't be better.
So........... you give the potential employer the phone number of the S1 in your last unit. They will probably do nothing more (if anything) than confirm employment, rank when you left, and when you left (not status of why you left). Turn over is astronomical in the Army and your change of command is just as likely to turn over before you even start using the unit as a reference.
As time goes on, your far past (barring criminal convictions) becomes less relevant than your recent past.
You only "really" need to keep contact with folks if you intend to need a security background check. As time progresses you'll only have in constant contact the most glowing of references you can reach back to.
So........... you give the potential employer the phone number of the S1 in your last unit. They will probably do nothing more (if anything) than confirm employment, rank when you left, and when you left (not status of why you left). Turn over is astronomical in the Army and your change of command is just as likely to turn over before you even start using the unit as a reference.
As time goes on, your far past (barring criminal convictions) becomes less relevant than your recent past.
You only "really" need to keep contact with folks if you intend to need a security background check. As time progresses you'll only have in constant contact the most glowing of references you can reach back to.
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I hope this doesn't sound harsh, but your own writing skills (or lack thereof) will do more to ruin your chances than anything your NCO might think or say.
No civilian employer is going to hunt for your NCO to ask them about your skills or performance, and they won't be especially impressed by any letters of recommendation that someone might write for you.
Civilian employers looking to hire a lab tech will look at your schooling and certifications more than anything else. If the individual making the hiring decision happens to have served in the Army or is familiar with the Army, they may draw a negative impression from your 10 years of service without having advanced beyond E4. If the question comes up, don't try to make the sort of excuses you tried to offer here. You can try something like "Well, promotions are slow for this MOS..."
Looking for a government job won't make much difference if you are looking for a job with any department other then the Department of Defense or Department of the Army. Looking for a government civilian job your application will be screened by their HR department before going to a hiring official. That screening process is often automated (even in places that say it is not) and even if the screening is being done manually, it consists 99% of looking to see that your resume includes the same keywords that are in the job description. You would benefit greatly by getting assistance from someone who understands the government application process of the agency you are trying to work for.
Most applications will ask for the name and contact information of your supervisor. You need to give honest information, but you might want to avoid giving them the NCO you are worried about. Depending on the way your unit is organized you might be able to give the name of the officer in charge.
No civilian employer is going to hunt for your NCO to ask them about your skills or performance, and they won't be especially impressed by any letters of recommendation that someone might write for you.
Civilian employers looking to hire a lab tech will look at your schooling and certifications more than anything else. If the individual making the hiring decision happens to have served in the Army or is familiar with the Army, they may draw a negative impression from your 10 years of service without having advanced beyond E4. If the question comes up, don't try to make the sort of excuses you tried to offer here. You can try something like "Well, promotions are slow for this MOS..."
Looking for a government job won't make much difference if you are looking for a job with any department other then the Department of Defense or Department of the Army. Looking for a government civilian job your application will be screened by their HR department before going to a hiring official. That screening process is often automated (even in places that say it is not) and even if the screening is being done manually, it consists 99% of looking to see that your resume includes the same keywords that are in the job description. You would benefit greatly by getting assistance from someone who understands the government application process of the agency you are trying to work for.
Most applications will ask for the name and contact information of your supervisor. You need to give honest information, but you might want to avoid giving them the NCO you are worried about. Depending on the way your unit is organized you might be able to give the name of the officer in charge.
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The great thing about references is that you get to pick them. So you stack your recommendations with people who you know will speak well of you. Unlike a clearance investigation, I have never heard of a civilian employer questioning second- or third-degree contacts. It sounds like you have plenty of resources for favorable recommendations. Just don't ask him.
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