Posted on Jul 4, 2015
How important is the "10-minute" prior to formation?
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If the leader has information to put out prior to the formation, then shouldn't the leader just make this the exact formation time versus saying "I expect Soldiers to be present 10 minutes prior to help you from being late and in case I have information to put out". I hear a lot about treating Soldiers like adults, but I think we should just tell them exact time we want them there and if they fail to meet that time, then hold them accountable. I personally will never counsel or berate a Soldier for not being there 10 minutes prior, but if they're late, then it's on.
Accountability
Leadership
Standards
Formation
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 21
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It's a balance.
Don't waste people's time vs "getting your ducks in a row."
If the "real" formation is at 0700, and the subordinate leader says 10 prior so he can get his headcount, rather than saying "1stSgt, I don't know where my folks are. I need a minute," that is completely reasonable.
However when you end up with the domino effect of 10 minutes prior to the 10 minutes prior, etc.. that is bad.
For a BN commander who says 0700, and then Company says 10 prior, and then Platoon says 10, then squad 10 prior... that's 30 mins. That time should be used "appropriately" and not just have folks milling around. Pass other types of word, etc.
Now, whatever the time you told them is the time they are supposed to be there. So if you say formation is 0700. That means 0700. It doesn't mean 0650. If you say formation is at 0700, but I want you there 10 prior, that means 0650. Orders should not be ambiguous, lest you will end up with undesired results.
Don't waste people's time vs "getting your ducks in a row."
If the "real" formation is at 0700, and the subordinate leader says 10 prior so he can get his headcount, rather than saying "1stSgt, I don't know where my folks are. I need a minute," that is completely reasonable.
However when you end up with the domino effect of 10 minutes prior to the 10 minutes prior, etc.. that is bad.
For a BN commander who says 0700, and then Company says 10 prior, and then Platoon says 10, then squad 10 prior... that's 30 mins. That time should be used "appropriately" and not just have folks milling around. Pass other types of word, etc.
Now, whatever the time you told them is the time they are supposed to be there. So if you say formation is 0700. That means 0700. It doesn't mean 0650. If you say formation is at 0700, but I want you there 10 prior, that means 0650. Orders should not be ambiguous, lest you will end up with undesired results.
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MSG (Join to see)
you need to have accountability of your sm's if formation is 0700 then your people need to be there at 0650, it is is standard through out the military, period, going on patrol need 3 vics in 3 vehicles, ones not there, patrol is delayed, in those ten minutes you can substituted and make the mission this is not civi world its mil world, get over it
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
MSG (Join to see) - And that is not contradictory to what I said. What I said is "Don't let it spiral out of control" to the point where we are wasting people's time, which is often the case. Think back to when you were a young troop and the ACTUAL formation was at 0700 and you were directed to be out there at 0600 because of the number of echelons between you and the person calling the formation.
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MSG (Join to see)
i agree but you do what is needed if your command says 0700, your company says 0650 and your plt says 0640 you do it period they have their reasons, too f'n bad, just do it your in the mil, and its not a social club, just do it, leadership is the abillity to send otherwise normal people into a sitaution that requires them to do things that no normal person would do
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
MSG (Join to see) - That's a different discussion, though. It's not a matter of whether we do it. It's a question of how important it is.
There's a lot of things we do that a idiotic, and showing up 30 minutes early for a meeting that is going to take 15 minutes is one of them. Time is the one of the few resources you cannot get back, and if you or anyone wastes mine, I'm going to call you out on it.
If you saw your Team Leaders wasting your Troops time by having them mill about well before muster, what would your response be? Would it be "good, they're here early!" or "Don't they have better things to do than stand around lollygagging on the parade-deck?"
There's a lot of things we do that a idiotic, and showing up 30 minutes early for a meeting that is going to take 15 minutes is one of them. Time is the one of the few resources you cannot get back, and if you or anyone wastes mine, I'm going to call you out on it.
If you saw your Team Leaders wasting your Troops time by having them mill about well before muster, what would your response be? Would it be "good, they're here early!" or "Don't they have better things to do than stand around lollygagging on the parade-deck?"
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It comes down to standards and discipline.
If the leadership (say at the Platoon or squad level) tells you to be there 10 minutes prior to the 0630 formation, do the math and be there at 0620. The training schedule is the legal document signed by the commander and many subordinate level leaders ask their Soldiers to be there 10 minutes prior to do an accountability and an inspection - sounds reasonable to me. 0630 is when the 1SG is saying fall-in, receive the report, report......we recently had a Soldier miss a formation, the 1SG directed the PLT leadership to go and find the Soldier (before the formation), he was in his room in a pool of blood. He had slipped and hit his head on his sink, and was bleeding - the unit had already checked his room and knew he was awake...they are a very disciplined unit and took care of that Soldier by checking on him and knowing there was something wrong because he was not there at 0620. The training schedule indicates what you are doing at 0630, for us it does not say you put out notes at 0630, it indicates PRT or Dismounted Patrol etc...
If the leadership (say at the Platoon or squad level) tells you to be there 10 minutes prior to the 0630 formation, do the math and be there at 0620. The training schedule is the legal document signed by the commander and many subordinate level leaders ask their Soldiers to be there 10 minutes prior to do an accountability and an inspection - sounds reasonable to me. 0630 is when the 1SG is saying fall-in, receive the report, report......we recently had a Soldier miss a formation, the 1SG directed the PLT leadership to go and find the Soldier (before the formation), he was in his room in a pool of blood. He had slipped and hit his head on his sink, and was bleeding - the unit had already checked his room and knew he was awake...they are a very disciplined unit and took care of that Soldier by checking on him and knowing there was something wrong because he was not there at 0620. The training schedule indicates what you are doing at 0630, for us it does not say you put out notes at 0630, it indicates PRT or Dismounted Patrol etc...
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Anytime we have a BN formation this happens. 10 minutes prior to the 10 minutes prior and etc. often times Soldiers getting there 30-45 minutes early. Which is ridiculous. Being a squad leader and having 7 soldiers and 2 team leaders under me I treat them like adults. My teams leaders always report to either through text message or in person that everyone from our squad is there. I can't say every Soldier but my soldiers always let their team leader if they know they are going to be late. I have a very tight knit group and because I treat them like adults, they act like adults.
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SFC William Swartz Jr
Have to agree big time with you SGT (Join to see) I detested the 10 minutes prior to the 10 minutes prior, I understood it, but still detested it lol....end up getting up probably an hour earlier than needed to make sure I was on time for someone's subordinate formation......
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