Posted on Jan 15, 2019
How realistic is it to be an effective leader and an effective manager? Can you do both or does one take away from the other?
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Posted in these groups: 
Leadership
Management
Leadership Management
Posted 7 y ago
Responses: 7
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It takes work, but in order to be truly effective, you have to be proficient at both. Always remember that you lead people and manage programs. Learn to differentiate which hat you need to wear for each given circumstance, once you do that, you are on the right path.
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SSgt Gary Andrews
Spot on.......there are times you need to be more of a leader, and other times when you need to be more of a manager. The trick is to know which mode you need to be in at any given time or circumstance. You nailed this one, TSgt.
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Effective leadership is putting first things first - effective management is discipline, carrying it out. -- Steve Covey... As a SSG, you're in a stage in your career where the science (book learning) and the art (actually doing) are 50-50ish. As you gain experience, you will find the books always have an answer, but the combination of effective leadership and management is a great art that is not necessarily in a book. You only need to look at the good leaders around you to know how realistic your question is -- good luck.
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SSG (Join to see)
What I've learned is delegation helps the management side while I lead full time. I can lay the blue print out and the foundation but I must delegate to ensure this gets done. Its a very difficult task to do both effectively. Yes it can be done to lead and manage but to do both effective can be overwhelming .
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CSM Chuck Stafford
SSG (Join to see) - Delegation is a great tool in a leader's kit bag. It allows leaders to focus on areas where his/her presence is needed more while allowing the other areas to be handled on their own; there is truth in the adage, 10% of the people take 90% of the time. As you evolve as a leader, you'll more instinctively know who can handle more delegation and have a better laser focus on where you need to be to lead from the front. Read "BLINK" by Malcolm Gladwell -- he explains this phenomena better than I...
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If you cannot manage you cannot effectively lead.
Of course this interpretation depends entirely on your definition of management. If your definition of management is the 1980's definition for management which is known today as toxic leadership, then they certainly detract one from another. If by management you mean managing the day to day affairs of your organization, then you can't actually lead (improve and develop AKA transformational leadership) without effectively managing your operations.
Of course this interpretation depends entirely on your definition of management. If your definition of management is the 1980's definition for management which is known today as toxic leadership, then they certainly detract one from another. If by management you mean managing the day to day affairs of your organization, then you can't actually lead (improve and develop AKA transformational leadership) without effectively managing your operations.
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SSG (Join to see)
I think ( and I could be wrong) that management gets overlooked a lot. Some people may think management gets taken care of naturally via good leadership. Apples and oranges . Are you a proponent of delegating?
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MAJ (Join to see)
Maxwell's law of explosive growth is a good chapter in his leadership book. If someone else can do a task 80% as effective as you delegate it. If you don't you are not developing your personnel and team.
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Yes. It depends on what you mean by leadership though. I think a lot of leadership is done by the trust you acquire through management.
Granted I work in an office environment so take that in mind. ( Former Services flight commander turning JAG - so I may not even have troops at my next assignment) You have to do both, trust your people enough to do their job with limited involvement, make your presence known " managing by walking around" , enforce standards, and be a good example. Make sure that you are holding yourself to as a high a standard as you hold everyone else and that you get the mission done. Trust by verify ( quietly - I generally verify without ever letting someone know I am ) and stand up for your people on day to day. When the harder decisions come and you have to make a decision for better or for worse, you will have generally earned their trust enough to lead.
Granted I work in an office environment so take that in mind. ( Former Services flight commander turning JAG - so I may not even have troops at my next assignment) You have to do both, trust your people enough to do their job with limited involvement, make your presence known " managing by walking around" , enforce standards, and be a good example. Make sure that you are holding yourself to as a high a standard as you hold everyone else and that you get the mission done. Trust by verify ( quietly - I generally verify without ever letting someone know I am ) and stand up for your people on day to day. When the harder decisions come and you have to make a decision for better or for worse, you will have generally earned their trust enough to lead.
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CPT (Join to see)
SSG (Join to see) - Extremely. I have neither the time nor the inclination to micromanage those below me. If I can't trust you with the responsibilities commensurate with your rank, ill get you a new rank. Which depending on how much you are responsible for can be good or bad. Do your job well and step up ill find a spot for you to promote ( I'm reserves so I have a lot more control than when I was active duty; or don't and I will LOR, LOC and article 15 you until your rank matches your work ethic).
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SPC Chris Ison
No, in my opinion, MANAGEMENT delegates. Does the team leader delegate? No. delegation is NOT telling someone to do something, that is leadership. Again the art of getting people to act against their self interest.
Management is when you have a set of tasks that need to be performed, and then you delegate those tasks to people below you, who then lead a team to accomplish said task.
There is an example how one leads versus how one manages it goes like this:
There is a Major, he has three OCS candidates, a sgt, and four privates. He explains to the OCS candidates that this is a lesson in management and leadership, and tells them he wants the flag pole raised in 4 hours. Then he leaves. Over the course of the next 4 hours the OCS candidates bicker among each other and argue over the best way to get the job done.
When the major arrives four hours later, the flag pole is not raised. The Major then looks at the OCS candidates and says, a good manager uses the tools he has to get the job done, this is how one manages. and he Barks, "Sgt have the men raise the flag pole." ten minutes later the flag pole is vertical.
The major used a resource (a team of enlisted men), and left the DETAILS to the NCOIC. When you do not leave the details to the men below you it is called micromanagement, not micro leadership.
Management is when you have a set of tasks that need to be performed, and then you delegate those tasks to people below you, who then lead a team to accomplish said task.
There is an example how one leads versus how one manages it goes like this:
There is a Major, he has three OCS candidates, a sgt, and four privates. He explains to the OCS candidates that this is a lesson in management and leadership, and tells them he wants the flag pole raised in 4 hours. Then he leaves. Over the course of the next 4 hours the OCS candidates bicker among each other and argue over the best way to get the job done.
When the major arrives four hours later, the flag pole is not raised. The Major then looks at the OCS candidates and says, a good manager uses the tools he has to get the job done, this is how one manages. and he Barks, "Sgt have the men raise the flag pole." ten minutes later the flag pole is vertical.
The major used a resource (a team of enlisted men), and left the DETAILS to the NCOIC. When you do not leave the details to the men below you it is called micromanagement, not micro leadership.
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CPT (Join to see)
1. Never said micro leadership- not even sure if that is a term. Also good management doesn't micromanage either. So in your scenario what is the difference between leadership and management?
I do not believe I have ever given someone explicit instructions on how to do a job unless it is governed specifically by a regulation. I don't care how you do it as long as its safe, legal and effective.
Take that hill scenario ( well that's great, but I haven't taken any hills nor ordered any).
We may have tasks that need to be done that you ( as a lower ranking) don't agree with, but you still need to get that job done.
I guess I have just never had that much pushback. I go to my flight say we need to build XX, we have XX this many people to fee, XX number of PT tests to deliver and each section dose their job and gets the mission done. They let me know what if any issues arise, I up channel any concerns, provide cover and blowback. If you have an issue Major you will talk to me not my SSgt...and we go from there. My job as the flight commander isn't to do their damn job or run up the hill but to ensure that the mission is done and my people are taken care of. ( you had to work all through the night b/c guess what loding is open, you go home earlier) Is your damn evaluation done, pt tes, does so and so have the tools they need to complete the mission and get to their next projected rank/position? Do they need to supervise so many so that they can lead a larger number later?
NCOIC's deal with a lot of the minor decision, that's their role they are frontline supervisors. I get briefs on and updates on those below me, but if you have a request it damn well better go through the chain before it lands on my desk.
I do not believe I have ever given someone explicit instructions on how to do a job unless it is governed specifically by a regulation. I don't care how you do it as long as its safe, legal and effective.
Take that hill scenario ( well that's great, but I haven't taken any hills nor ordered any).
We may have tasks that need to be done that you ( as a lower ranking) don't agree with, but you still need to get that job done.
I guess I have just never had that much pushback. I go to my flight say we need to build XX, we have XX this many people to fee, XX number of PT tests to deliver and each section dose their job and gets the mission done. They let me know what if any issues arise, I up channel any concerns, provide cover and blowback. If you have an issue Major you will talk to me not my SSgt...and we go from there. My job as the flight commander isn't to do their damn job or run up the hill but to ensure that the mission is done and my people are taken care of. ( you had to work all through the night b/c guess what loding is open, you go home earlier) Is your damn evaluation done, pt tes, does so and so have the tools they need to complete the mission and get to their next projected rank/position? Do they need to supervise so many so that they can lead a larger number later?
NCOIC's deal with a lot of the minor decision, that's their role they are frontline supervisors. I get briefs on and updates on those below me, but if you have a request it damn well better go through the chain before it lands on my desk.
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Leadership is the art of getting people to do things against their better judgement (see the hill take the hill), or contrary to their point of view (Clean the head/latrine).
Management is the art of moving quantities and entities and using them to their fullest potential.
An NCO leads, and an officer manages, especially at the field grade and above levels.
They tend to compliment each other, however some leaders suck at management, as they are used to using the stick over the carrot; and some managers suck at leading, as they are not assertive enough to get the job done.
Management is the art of moving quantities and entities and using them to their fullest potential.
An NCO leads, and an officer manages, especially at the field grade and above levels.
They tend to compliment each other, however some leaders suck at management, as they are used to using the stick over the carrot; and some managers suck at leading, as they are not assertive enough to get the job done.
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SPC Chris Ison
No, in my opinion, MANAGEMENT delegates. Does the team leader delegate? No. delegation is NOT telling someone to do something, that is leadership. Again the art of getting people to act against their self interest.
Management is when you have a set of tasks that need to be performed, and then you delegate those tasks to people below you, who then lead a team to accomplish said task.
There is an example how one leads versus how one manages it goes like this:
There is a Major, he has three OCS candidates, a sgt, and four privates. He explains to the OCS candidates that this is a lesson in management and leadership, and tells them he wants the flag pole raised in 4 hours. Then he leaves. Over the course of the next 4 hours the OCS candidates bicker among each other and argue over the best way to get the job done.
When the major arrives four hours later, the flag pole is not raised. The Major then looks at the OCS candidates and says, a good manager uses the tools he has to get the job done, this is how one manages. and he Barks, "Sgt have the men raise the flag pole." ten minutes later the flag pole is vertical.
The major used a resource (a team of enlisted men), and left the DETAILS to the NCOIC. When you do not leave the details to the men below you it is called micromanagement, not micro leadership.
Management is when you have a set of tasks that need to be performed, and then you delegate those tasks to people below you, who then lead a team to accomplish said task.
There is an example how one leads versus how one manages it goes like this:
There is a Major, he has three OCS candidates, a sgt, and four privates. He explains to the OCS candidates that this is a lesson in management and leadership, and tells them he wants the flag pole raised in 4 hours. Then he leaves. Over the course of the next 4 hours the OCS candidates bicker among each other and argue over the best way to get the job done.
When the major arrives four hours later, the flag pole is not raised. The Major then looks at the OCS candidates and says, a good manager uses the tools he has to get the job done, this is how one manages. and he Barks, "Sgt have the men raise the flag pole." ten minutes later the flag pole is vertical.
The major used a resource (a team of enlisted men), and left the DETAILS to the NCOIC. When you do not leave the details to the men below you it is called micromanagement, not micro leadership.
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One exists in random with the other. It's likely if you are good at one you are good or decent at the other. Of course there are exceptions to every rule. Be great leader and managerial skills will soon follow.
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SSG (Join to see)
The thing is you can't be every place at once. This is where I think delegation comes into play. is it fair to say leaders who don't delegate are selfish and hurting the team?
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CPT (Join to see)
SSG (Join to see) - Leaders/Managers who do not delegate are going to burn out. One person can't do the job of a work of a platoon or battalion...that's why god gave you the chain of command.
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Great question SSG (Join to see)
But excellent responses MAJ (Join to see) CSM Chuck Stafford and TSgt David Holman! I don’t think there’s much else to say!
But excellent responses MAJ (Join to see) CSM Chuck Stafford and TSgt David Holman! I don’t think there’s much else to say!
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SSG (Join to see) delegation paramount in being able to achieve a great balance of management and leadership. It takes knowing your soldiers' abilities and potential. Sometimes delegation allows you to learn those two things, sometimes it is required to maximize those two things. If you are having to do things that your subordinates can take care of, you are likely mismanaging your personnel and yourself, which in turn, means you are leading ineffectively.
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