Posted on Dec 31, 2015
How should a situation in the MCX about wearing a cover in the building be handled properly?
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How should a situation in the MCX about wearing a cover in the building be handled properly?
NEITHER MYSELF OR MY WIFE ARE IN THE HABIT OF TELLING A LIE OR MAKING UP A STORY - IT HAPPENED! FOCUS ON THE QUESTION - NOT WETHER YOU BELIEVE THE INCIDENT HAPPENED OR NOT!
RP Members was this handled properly by the Junior Officer, SgtMaj, or the mother? What would you have done?
THIS WAS A REAL SITUATION THAT TOOK PLACE YESTERDAY 12/30/2015
CORRECTION: I've receive collaboration from another lady who also had firsthand knowledge of this incident in the MCX - "The "youth" was not an AD USMC, but part of a group of Young Marines. Her description of this group is that it is one for troubled youth to attempt to instill discipline and maybe bring them into the fold."
I apologize to all of those individuals that I stood firm on with, that it was young Marine Private (based on all the information I received), but the discussion, question, and feedback on how the situation was handled by the Junior Officer, Sgt Mgr, and Mother have been outstanding - that I don't apologize for - thanks
If anything, I thoroughly enjoyed the story and my wife called me at home immediately following the incident - she knew I would enjoy hearing about it. I just said, "that SgtMaj owns that young Marine!"
RP Members this one comes from the wife that works at Camp Pendleton, CA Marine Base in the MCX.
A young "Youth" Marine was in the check-out line with his mother and "CORRECTION" (put his cover on inside!) He was approached by a AD Marine (Junior Officer) and asked to remove the cover. Immediately the young "Youth" Marine took up the defensive and asked the junior officer "who the F*** are you?" The Junior Officer then got into the young "Youth" Marine's face and told him to have some respect and remove the cover - it escalated into a shouting match in the check-out line in the MCX. Coming from the back of the store there was a loud roar from a Sergeant Major in the Marines (built like a tank according to my wife). He bellowed, "both of you shut your mouth there are families in here!" The MCX went silent and several employees and Marines hit the deck (no kidding). The SgtMaj came to the front and grabbed the young "Youth" Marine the by collar escorting him and the Junior Officer out of the MCX with the Young "Youth" Marine's mother yelling, "don't touch my boy!"
NEITHER MYSELF OR MY WIFE ARE IN THE HABIT OF TELLING A LIE OR MAKING UP A STORY - IT HAPPENED! FOCUS ON THE QUESTION - NOT WETHER YOU BELIEVE THE INCIDENT HAPPENED OR NOT!
RP Members was this handled properly by the Junior Officer, SgtMaj, or the mother? What would you have done?
THIS WAS A REAL SITUATION THAT TOOK PLACE YESTERDAY 12/30/2015
CORRECTION: I've receive collaboration from another lady who also had firsthand knowledge of this incident in the MCX - "The "youth" was not an AD USMC, but part of a group of Young Marines. Her description of this group is that it is one for troubled youth to attempt to instill discipline and maybe bring them into the fold."
I apologize to all of those individuals that I stood firm on with, that it was young Marine Private (based on all the information I received), but the discussion, question, and feedback on how the situation was handled by the Junior Officer, Sgt Mgr, and Mother have been outstanding - that I don't apologize for - thanks
If anything, I thoroughly enjoyed the story and my wife called me at home immediately following the incident - she knew I would enjoy hearing about it. I just said, "that SgtMaj owns that young Marine!"
RP Members this one comes from the wife that works at Camp Pendleton, CA Marine Base in the MCX.
A young "Youth" Marine was in the check-out line with his mother and "CORRECTION" (put his cover on inside!) He was approached by a AD Marine (Junior Officer) and asked to remove the cover. Immediately the young "Youth" Marine took up the defensive and asked the junior officer "who the F*** are you?" The Junior Officer then got into the young "Youth" Marine's face and told him to have some respect and remove the cover - it escalated into a shouting match in the check-out line in the MCX. Coming from the back of the store there was a loud roar from a Sergeant Major in the Marines (built like a tank according to my wife). He bellowed, "both of you shut your mouth there are families in here!" The MCX went silent and several employees and Marines hit the deck (no kidding). The SgtMaj came to the front and grabbed the young "Youth" Marine the by collar escorting him and the Junior Officer out of the MCX with the Young "Youth" Marine's mother yelling, "don't touch my boy!"
Marines
Discipline
Regulation
Military bearing
What Would You Do
Edited >1 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 937
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If true, it saddens me to see such disrespect for the corps and it's rules/traditions.
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs
Cpl Tim Linville It was a true incident, but it would sadden me to see any service member of any branch handle the situation this way! Unfortunately, it does happen, but it's not a common occurance!
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I'll get back on this subject matter as an Ol'School Vietnam Era Vet. I have a realistic and down to earth comment. Let me shorten my book I wrote.
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I think The young Marine should have been corrected and reprimanded for his disrespect to a Junior Officer. I think the CSM was correct to escort the Marine out of the Facility. However, The situation was handled incorrectly. The proper way to handle this situation would have been to pull the Marine aside (his mother was there to hold the spot in line) and discreetly point out the deficiency, and correct him accordingly. Should the Marine have been disrespectful at that point, escorting him from the building and correcting him in a more severe way would have been appropriate. However, the CSM (especially from the back of the store) did not need not be involved, and nor was there a need for a shouting match. My questions, being unspecified in the retelling, are this: 1. Was the Marine under Arms (headgear is authorized in this instance)? and 2. Did the Junior Officer identify himself upon the confrontation? and finally, 3.: What gives a CSM the right to put his hands on another person who, while being belligerent, was not a violent threat, and who taught that Junior officer that immediately jumping into someone's face to scream at them is an appropriate response? The whole situation was handled unprofessionally, and in the presence of civilians, no less.
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My brain shorted out after reading this. Maybe this guy was on his way out the Corps and thus mom being there to help her little baby during his transition. Sounds like it may have been embellished as the story made its journey, starting at patient zero. I can see it happening but the CSM part, especially from someone working there gave me pause. She should know that CSMs don't exist in the Corps and the obligatory "built like a tank". I don't doubt said event occurred, but there might be a little mustard put on the MRE: Hot Dog. I can't believe no NCOs or SNCOs or Officers lost their minds while this was happening, I'm sure one of my eyeballs would popped out as I drew my knife hand.
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Has anyone thought the young marine could have just been wearing the uniform and not actually a marine? We see enough stolen Valor things, but people like to wear uniforms. Might make sense as to why the reaction by the young marine
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs
MSgt (Join to see) He was definitely a Marine (all three of them were Marines).
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Definitely not the way its handled in the picture! LoL. The best way is to pull the person aside, and mention to them that they have their "cover" on. The person may have forgotten. NOW. If the person responded the way this young Marine did, and we were in a public place, I would wait for him to exit, pull to the side, quietly say in his ear where the bear sh@@s in the woods. Then I would get his name and unit and call their 1Sgt (sorry if I got it wrong)!
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I was with D-10-2 Harmony Church, Fort Benning, Ga. (the old John Wayne Barracks) It was srilled into my mind on a daily basis if I were to go to the PX (which was very rare) I wore my cover outside and removed it once I was inside and immediate recovered juat after exiting the building. My DIs were fair, but they could be a hard ass if they caught ya doing what you ought not to be doing and for heavens sake, stay off the CSM's grass. (We didn't have grass in our company AO, but the CSM liked everything high and tight. Or else I would be pushing a hand mower around the quad full of dirt LOL)
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There is no such rank as Command Sergeant Major in the Marines. There are Sergeants Major (SgtMaj) or the Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps (SgtMajMarCor). That's it. As an Army Command Sergeant Major deployed to Iraq in 2006 I reported to a Marine Sergeant Major who was assigned to the joint billet position at MNSTC-I under then LTG Martin Dempsey. He had real heartburn over myself and my other CSMs deployed to Iraq. He wanted us all to be reverted to Sergeants Major during our deployment. He lost that battle.
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SSgt (Join to see)
The equivalent to Command Sergeant Major in the Marine Corps is Sergeant Major, but the equivalent to the Army's Sergeant Major (SGM) is Master Gunnery Sergeant in the Marine Corps. However, the MGySgt cannot be made into a SgtMaj and vice versa unlike the CSM and SGM; this is due to MOS specialization and billeting. Why would this SgtMaj want you and your peers' position and title taken away?
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CSM William Payne
He just had heartburn over the term "Command". As a Marine he couldn't get his mind around the difference between the duties of a Sergeant Major and a Command Sergeant Major and didn't like the fact that five of the Sergeants Major I had including myself that were under him were Command Sergeants Major. He was always telling me well in the Marines . . . If you took out the coalition Soldiers within the command, 85% of us were Army, the rest were comprised of Air Force, Marines and Navy in that order. I would tell him no disrespect Sergeant Major, but I'm a Navy brat and my oldest brother was in the Corps. If I had wanted to be a Marine I would have joined the Marines. I was the senior NCO advisor to a Brigadier General and the other four were the same to Colonels and Lieutenant Colonels. These were not operational positions. I did also had three Sergeants Majors, three Australian Regimental Sergeants Major and two Navy Master Chiefs under me. My billet was NOT a Sergeant Major position.
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If this really happened then I hope someone advised "Mommy" that she was a guest at the facility and could be tossed out at any time. The Marine with the cover should now be still cleaning the head with his toothbrush.
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs
CPO Randy Francis They were all asked to leave at the same time the Sergeant Major was escorting the private by the collar out of the store. Management in "Red Shirts" did ask here to leave immediately when she started yelling! Yes, the toothbrush would have worked wonders!
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I would have to say, that, if the young Marine had to ask who the officer was, the officer was not in uniform. If that was in deed the case, the officer should have produced his ID card and identified himself, then proceed to make any corrections that needed to be addressed. As for the officer getting into a shouting match with the young Marine, that just blows my mind that a young service member would dare to challenge an officer after being informed that it was an officer. Not saying it don't happen, but I just have to question if that person's elevator goes all the way to the top when they behave like that. Sounds like to me, neither Marine handled the situation properly, and it got blown way out of control.
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