Posted on Dec 31, 2015
How should a situation in the MCX about wearing a cover in the building be handled properly?
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How should a situation in the MCX about wearing a cover in the building be handled properly?
NEITHER MYSELF OR MY WIFE ARE IN THE HABIT OF TELLING A LIE OR MAKING UP A STORY - IT HAPPENED! FOCUS ON THE QUESTION - NOT WETHER YOU BELIEVE THE INCIDENT HAPPENED OR NOT!
RP Members was this handled properly by the Junior Officer, SgtMaj, or the mother? What would you have done?
THIS WAS A REAL SITUATION THAT TOOK PLACE YESTERDAY 12/30/2015
CORRECTION: I've receive collaboration from another lady who also had firsthand knowledge of this incident in the MCX - "The "youth" was not an AD USMC, but part of a group of Young Marines. Her description of this group is that it is one for troubled youth to attempt to instill discipline and maybe bring them into the fold."
I apologize to all of those individuals that I stood firm on with, that it was young Marine Private (based on all the information I received), but the discussion, question, and feedback on how the situation was handled by the Junior Officer, Sgt Mgr, and Mother have been outstanding - that I don't apologize for - thanks
If anything, I thoroughly enjoyed the story and my wife called me at home immediately following the incident - she knew I would enjoy hearing about it. I just said, "that SgtMaj owns that young Marine!"
RP Members this one comes from the wife that works at Camp Pendleton, CA Marine Base in the MCX.
A young "Youth" Marine was in the check-out line with his mother and "CORRECTION" (put his cover on inside!) He was approached by a AD Marine (Junior Officer) and asked to remove the cover. Immediately the young "Youth" Marine took up the defensive and asked the junior officer "who the F*** are you?" The Junior Officer then got into the young "Youth" Marine's face and told him to have some respect and remove the cover - it escalated into a shouting match in the check-out line in the MCX. Coming from the back of the store there was a loud roar from a Sergeant Major in the Marines (built like a tank according to my wife). He bellowed, "both of you shut your mouth there are families in here!" The MCX went silent and several employees and Marines hit the deck (no kidding). The SgtMaj came to the front and grabbed the young "Youth" Marine the by collar escorting him and the Junior Officer out of the MCX with the Young "Youth" Marine's mother yelling, "don't touch my boy!"
NEITHER MYSELF OR MY WIFE ARE IN THE HABIT OF TELLING A LIE OR MAKING UP A STORY - IT HAPPENED! FOCUS ON THE QUESTION - NOT WETHER YOU BELIEVE THE INCIDENT HAPPENED OR NOT!
RP Members was this handled properly by the Junior Officer, SgtMaj, or the mother? What would you have done?
THIS WAS A REAL SITUATION THAT TOOK PLACE YESTERDAY 12/30/2015
CORRECTION: I've receive collaboration from another lady who also had firsthand knowledge of this incident in the MCX - "The "youth" was not an AD USMC, but part of a group of Young Marines. Her description of this group is that it is one for troubled youth to attempt to instill discipline and maybe bring them into the fold."
I apologize to all of those individuals that I stood firm on with, that it was young Marine Private (based on all the information I received), but the discussion, question, and feedback on how the situation was handled by the Junior Officer, Sgt Mgr, and Mother have been outstanding - that I don't apologize for - thanks
If anything, I thoroughly enjoyed the story and my wife called me at home immediately following the incident - she knew I would enjoy hearing about it. I just said, "that SgtMaj owns that young Marine!"
RP Members this one comes from the wife that works at Camp Pendleton, CA Marine Base in the MCX.
A young "Youth" Marine was in the check-out line with his mother and "CORRECTION" (put his cover on inside!) He was approached by a AD Marine (Junior Officer) and asked to remove the cover. Immediately the young "Youth" Marine took up the defensive and asked the junior officer "who the F*** are you?" The Junior Officer then got into the young "Youth" Marine's face and told him to have some respect and remove the cover - it escalated into a shouting match in the check-out line in the MCX. Coming from the back of the store there was a loud roar from a Sergeant Major in the Marines (built like a tank according to my wife). He bellowed, "both of you shut your mouth there are families in here!" The MCX went silent and several employees and Marines hit the deck (no kidding). The SgtMaj came to the front and grabbed the young "Youth" Marine the by collar escorting him and the Junior Officer out of the MCX with the Young "Youth" Marine's mother yelling, "don't touch my boy!"
Marines
Discipline
Regulation
Military bearing
What Would You Do
Edited >1 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 937
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WOW! This is not the first time I have heard of something like this happening. If I recall correctly, we do NOT wear our cover indoors unless we are directed to do so for some official or ceremonial reason (color guard, etc.). Even if the junior officer was correct, he did it totally wrong. Is "conduct unbecoming" still a UCMJ offense? NOW the SgtMaj grabbing the Marine in a public place is wrong. He can yell all he wants, and even order the Marines out of the building. He can do whatever he wants if he and the Marine are in their official unit setting, but laying his hands on anyone, not just a Marine, in a public setting could be viewed as an assault if someone wanted to pursue it. That young Marine's mother has not witnessed something that will stay with her and affect her view of the military. In the end, though, all three of these guys were wrong.
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MAJ Karen Wall
PS.....true or not, I see this is a good scenario to use in any leadership or ethics training.
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs
MAJ Karen Wall - Very true and unfortunately this is the first incident that I've heard of or exeprience myself in the 37 years that I've served. Thanks for your feedback Karen!
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One thing i learned was its not always what you say its how you say it. That goes for both sides. Just cause you could yell don't mean you have to. And you always avoid smoking anyone in front of family if it can be avoided it should
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I was at Camp Humphreys in 05, I witnessed a CSM rip a PFC about being slow putting on his hat while coming out of BurgerKing, it was no big deal but there was several small children and he was using every word in the book. In the middle of his tyraid I walked up to him and asked him I could talk to him, he waved me off and continued yelling at PFC. I doubled down and then he started swearing at me. At that moment I noticed a odor of an alcoholic bevererage emanating from his person. At that time a small crowd had gathered and the MP were on scene. I told him I would apprehend him, he lost it. MPs were being pussies about it, not impressed. So I spent the next hour at the MP stationed being questioned, what a joke. The funny part about the whole thing was I am a USAF Cop from Osan Air Base 7th Air Force, I was just picking up weapons from a comm unit that was standing down. The CSM walked out of MP post, nothing? This was a Friday, on Monday I get called into directors office, read the riot act by a fu@king 1 star. After telling my side and the part about the CSM swearing infront of small children and being possibally drunk on post. The next day the CSM, a Lt and a Col from HHB (can't remember unit, I think it was 3/2 heavy lift something?). He appauligized and me being a true USAF SP/SF, I said you need to apologize to the family that you acted like a fool infront. That CSM wanted to reach out and kill me. I added "in the future CSM, when a Military Law Enforcement officer what's to talk to you don't disrespect them. The 1 star gave me a stern look, I knew that was about all my MSgt could get away with, I was retiring in a few months, so whatever.
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs
MSgt Mark Wood Awesome - You held your ground. That is super. That is why I retired as Colonel, because I always called it the way it was and I nver backed down! Respect Mark!
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The Lt should have waited until they left the check out line then pulled the Marine to the side for some quick counseling and reminder about military protocol. If then, the Marine became insubordinate you simply take his name and notify his chain of command for disciplinary action. While I always take a SGM's guidance to heart, the SGM should have approached both, said excuse me Ma'am to the mother then taken the discussion outside. Soldier's attitude still warrants extra duty of some sort. The military is changing. Once upon a time we couldn't gas our cars up at a civilian gas station in uniform and traveling in uniform required class A.
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This is the problem, mothers of America not teaching they're children about respect for authority. These days our children are becoming more disrespectful by the day by not being taught respect or accountability. Lesson to be taught to this young marine is respect for authority. End state, NJP him and if that doesn't solve the problem admin sep send him back to mommy to coddle.
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The problem is he has seen his seniors do it and others do it and not be corrected. I just retired after 20 year and I was having to correct my seniors, peers, and my subordinates. For on having a proper hair cut to fixing there uniforms etc. I was told by to very senior Marines that they didn't shave on the weekends but would still go out in town and do things. They said the only time they shaved is when they came to work or the base. So long store short if you see a Marine that is wrong correct him or her no matter what the rank is and do it professionally.
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I'm not in the Marines but, in assuming he was in the PX. IF he was ABOUT to walk out of the store, i.e. less than 10 seconds AFTER, putting it on, it should have been big deal. But, when the higher rank approached him, he SHOULD/COULD have pulled him to the side and explained proper PC. Its an ARMY THING
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Someone gets an ass chewing unless they are under arms. That is the only excuse. Marines god damn better know better.
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I would think the SgtMaj "owns" both the young, dumb, Marine AND the junior officer. The young marine has, at minimum, an Article 15 (or the USMC equivalent). The officer, "?," totally lost when he raised his (her?) voice in a public setting. All the SgtMaj need do is talk to the SgtMaj of the officers unit, and you darn well know they know each other. I would not want to be in the officers boots when his commander learns of this lack of leadership skills.
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