Posted on Dec 31, 2015
How should a situation in the MCX about wearing a cover in the building be handled properly?
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How should a situation in the MCX about wearing a cover in the building be handled properly?
NEITHER MYSELF OR MY WIFE ARE IN THE HABIT OF TELLING A LIE OR MAKING UP A STORY - IT HAPPENED! FOCUS ON THE QUESTION - NOT WETHER YOU BELIEVE THE INCIDENT HAPPENED OR NOT!
RP Members was this handled properly by the Junior Officer, SgtMaj, or the mother? What would you have done?
THIS WAS A REAL SITUATION THAT TOOK PLACE YESTERDAY 12/30/2015
CORRECTION: I've receive collaboration from another lady who also had firsthand knowledge of this incident in the MCX - "The "youth" was not an AD USMC, but part of a group of Young Marines. Her description of this group is that it is one for troubled youth to attempt to instill discipline and maybe bring them into the fold."
I apologize to all of those individuals that I stood firm on with, that it was young Marine Private (based on all the information I received), but the discussion, question, and feedback on how the situation was handled by the Junior Officer, Sgt Mgr, and Mother have been outstanding - that I don't apologize for - thanks
If anything, I thoroughly enjoyed the story and my wife called me at home immediately following the incident - she knew I would enjoy hearing about it. I just said, "that SgtMaj owns that young Marine!"
RP Members this one comes from the wife that works at Camp Pendleton, CA Marine Base in the MCX.
A young "Youth" Marine was in the check-out line with his mother and "CORRECTION" (put his cover on inside!) He was approached by a AD Marine (Junior Officer) and asked to remove the cover. Immediately the young "Youth" Marine took up the defensive and asked the junior officer "who the F*** are you?" The Junior Officer then got into the young "Youth" Marine's face and told him to have some respect and remove the cover - it escalated into a shouting match in the check-out line in the MCX. Coming from the back of the store there was a loud roar from a Sergeant Major in the Marines (built like a tank according to my wife). He bellowed, "both of you shut your mouth there are families in here!" The MCX went silent and several employees and Marines hit the deck (no kidding). The SgtMaj came to the front and grabbed the young "Youth" Marine the by collar escorting him and the Junior Officer out of the MCX with the Young "Youth" Marine's mother yelling, "don't touch my boy!"
NEITHER MYSELF OR MY WIFE ARE IN THE HABIT OF TELLING A LIE OR MAKING UP A STORY - IT HAPPENED! FOCUS ON THE QUESTION - NOT WETHER YOU BELIEVE THE INCIDENT HAPPENED OR NOT!
RP Members was this handled properly by the Junior Officer, SgtMaj, or the mother? What would you have done?
THIS WAS A REAL SITUATION THAT TOOK PLACE YESTERDAY 12/30/2015
CORRECTION: I've receive collaboration from another lady who also had firsthand knowledge of this incident in the MCX - "The "youth" was not an AD USMC, but part of a group of Young Marines. Her description of this group is that it is one for troubled youth to attempt to instill discipline and maybe bring them into the fold."
I apologize to all of those individuals that I stood firm on with, that it was young Marine Private (based on all the information I received), but the discussion, question, and feedback on how the situation was handled by the Junior Officer, Sgt Mgr, and Mother have been outstanding - that I don't apologize for - thanks
If anything, I thoroughly enjoyed the story and my wife called me at home immediately following the incident - she knew I would enjoy hearing about it. I just said, "that SgtMaj owns that young Marine!"
RP Members this one comes from the wife that works at Camp Pendleton, CA Marine Base in the MCX.
A young "Youth" Marine was in the check-out line with his mother and "CORRECTION" (put his cover on inside!) He was approached by a AD Marine (Junior Officer) and asked to remove the cover. Immediately the young "Youth" Marine took up the defensive and asked the junior officer "who the F*** are you?" The Junior Officer then got into the young "Youth" Marine's face and told him to have some respect and remove the cover - it escalated into a shouting match in the check-out line in the MCX. Coming from the back of the store there was a loud roar from a Sergeant Major in the Marines (built like a tank according to my wife). He bellowed, "both of you shut your mouth there are families in here!" The MCX went silent and several employees and Marines hit the deck (no kidding). The SgtMaj came to the front and grabbed the young "Youth" Marine the by collar escorting him and the Junior Officer out of the MCX with the Young "Youth" Marine's mother yelling, "don't touch my boy!"
Marines
Discipline
Regulation
Military bearing
What Would You Do
Edited >1 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 937
On its face the story is off.. If it were not for a respected RP member attesting to its truth or at least he believes it to be both accurate and reasonably close to what happened all I can say is... I'm not surprised at all.
End of the day the Marines (yes even the marines) are made up of humans, and humans do stupid things.. Young privet , new to the Marines, on Xmas Exodus, perhaps not even yet done with boot camp.. Young dude fresh off the street and with his mom... Reacted like he would on the block.... Was it smart..I’m guessing by now he has his answer.
I’m more discouraged that the officer allowed it to devolve to a screaming match. Ids hope they are teaching young Marine officers better leadership skills than that.
I can think of a dozen ways to get that side show out of the checkout line and handled if not in privet, at least out of sight.
Heck I might even have considered offering the young man a special prize and his mom was allowed to see him receive the “gift”.. Just follow me over Here>>>>>> At which time Id remind his mom it's her fault, then correct the young man in front of her..
End of the day the Marines (yes even the marines) are made up of humans, and humans do stupid things.. Young privet , new to the Marines, on Xmas Exodus, perhaps not even yet done with boot camp.. Young dude fresh off the street and with his mom... Reacted like he would on the block.... Was it smart..I’m guessing by now he has his answer.
I’m more discouraged that the officer allowed it to devolve to a screaming match. Ids hope they are teaching young Marine officers better leadership skills than that.
I can think of a dozen ways to get that side show out of the checkout line and handled if not in privet, at least out of sight.
Heck I might even have considered offering the young man a special prize and his mom was allowed to see him receive the “gift”.. Just follow me over Here>>>>>> At which time Id remind his mom it's her fault, then correct the young man in front of her..
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Cpl Cary Cartter
All due respect to both Col. Burroughs and SGM Marquez - I don't doubt the integrity of the story teller, nor do I doubt the story itself. The Colonel's wife, even being on a Marine base, is still an Army spouse and could very well relate the ranking involved to what her experience is - Army ranks.
That being said, I can guarantee that the Marines do not allow young Marines out into the wild until after boot camp has been completed - not even for Christmas - so the possibility of this being a not-fully-trained-Marine is zero. Not fully vested? Pretty high, considering the response to a simple correction.
The lieutenant acted correctly, assuming a quick compliance by an outranked enlisted man; the escalation by the enlisted man was unwarranted. The Sgt. Major acted well within his duties/responsibilities and got the factions out of civvy earshot. Foreseeable future actions: Office Hours for the enlisted; counseling, discussion and direction for the officer. As it should be, the officer will know of the enlisted's consequences but the enlisted will remain forever ignorant of the officer's consequences.
Please extend my apologies to your wife, from a Marine, for the disturbance witnessed.
That being said, I can guarantee that the Marines do not allow young Marines out into the wild until after boot camp has been completed - not even for Christmas - so the possibility of this being a not-fully-trained-Marine is zero. Not fully vested? Pretty high, considering the response to a simple correction.
The lieutenant acted correctly, assuming a quick compliance by an outranked enlisted man; the escalation by the enlisted man was unwarranted. The Sgt. Major acted well within his duties/responsibilities and got the factions out of civvy earshot. Foreseeable future actions: Office Hours for the enlisted; counseling, discussion and direction for the officer. As it should be, the officer will know of the enlisted's consequences but the enlisted will remain forever ignorant of the officer's consequences.
Please extend my apologies to your wife, from a Marine, for the disturbance witnessed.
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Sgt Matt Dean
Cpl cartter, 100% agree not one marine, even a turd, would be out in the civilian world until completion of boot camp. He should know, understand and respect the marine corps standards as well as rank structure! He should have never disrespected a senior even if he had a bad day and had the honor and courage to be a good marine and do the right thing and at which then offered a thank you to the officer for reminding him. I believe his mother would have been proud to see the tradition and had respect for the corps! Having said that I do hope the Lt did not abuse his power and come out the young marine with an attitude! I hope he respectfully corrected the marine and then wished him well! We are all brothers and should never disrespect one another but be grown men to one another and be proud of who we are. We all know there is a lot of testosterone but that gives us zero reason to treat a fellow. Either with disrespect! I pray that young marine was taught right and hopefully they were able to solve it like men! Armored in the sgt maj for showing how a war hammer can take charge and loves the corps enough to correct anyone who is disrespectful! Demote do marines and rah to my 03s
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SGM Erik Marquez
Cpl Cary Cartter -
The point regardless of the how a young soup sandwich marine (which exists in moderate quantity ) came to be and was found in the BX being stupid the corrective action taken as reported was beneath the leadership expectations of both the officer and the senior NCO
I know far too many marines professional persuasive intelligent to think that the best those two leaders could come up with was a shouting match in public.
The point regardless of the how a young soup sandwich marine (which exists in moderate quantity ) came to be and was found in the BX being stupid the corrective action taken as reported was beneath the leadership expectations of both the officer and the senior NCO
I know far too many marines professional persuasive intelligent to think that the best those two leaders could come up with was a shouting match in public.
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The Sergeant Major was correct, (as always). The young officer tried. Why in the world would he need a mother if he has a Sergeant Major
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First off its against military regulation to wear your cover indoors.Although the officer should have been asked,not yelled at,he still desrves respect !!! As for the Sgt.Major,discilinary action for putting his hands on a civilian dependant.
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SGT Chester Beedle
The Sgt.Maj didn't put his hands on a dependent. He put hands on a subordinate Marine. A world of difference.
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SPC Edwin Savoy
Any one that has served in the military knows that the only time you are allowed to wear a cover indoors is when you are under arms and only when you are under arms!!
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There's a lot of uncertainty in this situation. I've seen Marines at the PX place their covers on their heads while still inside because they've got so many bags to carry, so they throw their covers on and beeline out the PX. In any case, both parties made mistakes in this scenario, the SgtMaj did what a SgtMaj does, nothing wrong.
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I dont really believe a marine would make that mistake but he would never disrespect the officer
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs
Cpl Tommy Cater Unfortunately, it did happen. I've seen it before as well throughout my career by other Marines, and other branches. Sometimes individuals have "bad hair days", but it does happen - Cpl Cater if confronted with the episode I described above how should've each individual responded? I'd like to get your leadership take on it. Thanks.
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LCpl Christopher Dillon
Agree completely. Boots are afraid of CPLs and anyone that thinks they'd go off on an officer is nuts.
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MSgt Alan Arnold
Finally! Others believe that a young Marine would do and say that is absolutely unbelievable!
Number 1: A 'young officer' implies a 2ndLt or 1stLt. ALL young enlisted Marines are TERRIFIED of Officers and would stammer and stutter and say "Yes sir"! Even senior enlisted walk lighter around young Lts then around Colonels and Generals.
Number 2: An officer may have immediately called the MPs not squabble with a Pvt. He will be judged by those above him (whether they be there or later) by his actions.
Number 3: No Sergeants Major would bellow out to an officer; "both of you shut your mouth, there are families in here!" Sergeants Majors haven't reached their esteemed rank by stupidity, but tried in the fire of common sense. He would have approached the two, addressed the Lt. respectfully and ask if he could 'handle this' and remove the private. The officer would approve and thank the SgtMaj for his assistance, and smartly depart the area, KNOWING the SgtMaj WILL handle the situation. No officer needs this BS, period. The SgtMaj would apologize to all for the commotion, call the MPs and possibly drag the Marine out. Please believe me; All Marines having any number of stripes or bars would never do the things mentioned. We just aren't trained that way. I know things change, but hopefully, not the Marine Corps I have loved since the early 60's.
One last thing: No Marine (not under arms) would ever think of going 'covered' indoors, and if he was, someone would have grabbed him within 10 seconds of entering the facility. That's my 2 cents.
Number 1: A 'young officer' implies a 2ndLt or 1stLt. ALL young enlisted Marines are TERRIFIED of Officers and would stammer and stutter and say "Yes sir"! Even senior enlisted walk lighter around young Lts then around Colonels and Generals.
Number 2: An officer may have immediately called the MPs not squabble with a Pvt. He will be judged by those above him (whether they be there or later) by his actions.
Number 3: No Sergeants Major would bellow out to an officer; "both of you shut your mouth, there are families in here!" Sergeants Majors haven't reached their esteemed rank by stupidity, but tried in the fire of common sense. He would have approached the two, addressed the Lt. respectfully and ask if he could 'handle this' and remove the private. The officer would approve and thank the SgtMaj for his assistance, and smartly depart the area, KNOWING the SgtMaj WILL handle the situation. No officer needs this BS, period. The SgtMaj would apologize to all for the commotion, call the MPs and possibly drag the Marine out. Please believe me; All Marines having any number of stripes or bars would never do the things mentioned. We just aren't trained that way. I know things change, but hopefully, not the Marine Corps I have loved since the early 60's.
One last thing: No Marine (not under arms) would ever think of going 'covered' indoors, and if he was, someone would have grabbed him within 10 seconds of entering the facility. That's my 2 cents.
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First response was the last question. As far as how should it be handled; if JO was loud and forceful, wrong. That said, young Marine needs to show respect and do as told. That JO escalated the encounter, further in the wrong. SGM was correct at that point as it sounds like 2 young Marines were showing their asses and being an embarrassment to the Corps.
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1. I'm not marine but a medically discharged medic, army, two deployments Iraq and Afghanistan both combat arms.
2. The 8ish yrs I was in it started out with "I might not like, you might be a s**t bag of a leader, but dagum it I have to respect your rank" now it's not like that in the army anymore it's "oh I dont like you because you make me work, you can't do s**t to me because we have so many things in place you will get in trouble before I do, and I have no respect for anyone to include myself but I'm going to act everyone in charge is a douchecanoe and be a pain in their a $$"
3. As soon as the mom said don't touch my boy, the CSM should have turned to her politely and said well it's either I talk with him now, because you obviously haven't taught him respect, or I can detain him let have his own people come get him and get him in more trouble. Then it's situational dependent. Definitely some extra duty.
3. The officer needs a talking to too. He should act more professional but yet all older enlisted know the newbies act just like privates most of the time.
Also I was an nco before the surgeries started should have had my SSG/e6 but wasn't promotable due to being a broke dick. Still kept an 8pk and in a best shape I could by working out however I could without risking injury. It's not about whether or not you like the rules or the people around or in charge of you, it's about your discipline, work ethic, and determination to get the job done.
2. The 8ish yrs I was in it started out with "I might not like, you might be a s**t bag of a leader, but dagum it I have to respect your rank" now it's not like that in the army anymore it's "oh I dont like you because you make me work, you can't do s**t to me because we have so many things in place you will get in trouble before I do, and I have no respect for anyone to include myself but I'm going to act everyone in charge is a douchecanoe and be a pain in their a $$"
3. As soon as the mom said don't touch my boy, the CSM should have turned to her politely and said well it's either I talk with him now, because you obviously haven't taught him respect, or I can detain him let have his own people come get him and get him in more trouble. Then it's situational dependent. Definitely some extra duty.
3. The officer needs a talking to too. He should act more professional but yet all older enlisted know the newbies act just like privates most of the time.
Also I was an nco before the surgeries started should have had my SSG/e6 but wasn't promotable due to being a broke dick. Still kept an 8pk and in a best shape I could by working out however I could without risking injury. It's not about whether or not you like the rules or the people around or in charge of you, it's about your discipline, work ethic, and determination to get the job done.
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Junior enlisted showing his a** in public? I can believe that, especially if the Officer in question happened to be in civilians.
[Junior] Officer, not that grade or time in service matters, taking the bait and pulling out their measuring stick in response? I can believe that.
SGM silencing an entire building with thunderous fury? Check and check.
Sounds like the junior enlisted Marine needs some serious extra-duty if not some wall to wall counseling. The Officer is wrong but... only in a very loose sense of the word and the SGM is the SGM sounds like he did the right thing.
The people I'd be the most disappointed in are the other service members present who did nothing to intervene or de-escalate the situation. Particularly if the Officer was in civilians. Pull the guy aside and fix his attitude at the lowest level.
[Junior] Officer, not that grade or time in service matters, taking the bait and pulling out their measuring stick in response? I can believe that.
SGM silencing an entire building with thunderous fury? Check and check.
Sounds like the junior enlisted Marine needs some serious extra-duty if not some wall to wall counseling. The Officer is wrong but... only in a very loose sense of the word and the SGM is the SGM sounds like he did the right thing.
The people I'd be the most disappointed in are the other service members present who did nothing to intervene or de-escalate the situation. Particularly if the Officer was in civilians. Pull the guy aside and fix his attitude at the lowest level.
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SFC James Nallin
1973 -1976 we used wall to wall counseling. Then the All Volunteer Army and the Kids gloves came out I seen a Lot of Change 1973 -1983 then 2002 2012
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