Posted on Dec 31, 2015
How should a situation in the MCX about wearing a cover in the building be handled properly?
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How should a situation in the MCX about wearing a cover in the building be handled properly?
NEITHER MYSELF OR MY WIFE ARE IN THE HABIT OF TELLING A LIE OR MAKING UP A STORY - IT HAPPENED! FOCUS ON THE QUESTION - NOT WETHER YOU BELIEVE THE INCIDENT HAPPENED OR NOT!
RP Members was this handled properly by the Junior Officer, SgtMaj, or the mother? What would you have done?
THIS WAS A REAL SITUATION THAT TOOK PLACE YESTERDAY 12/30/2015
CORRECTION: I've receive collaboration from another lady who also had firsthand knowledge of this incident in the MCX - "The "youth" was not an AD USMC, but part of a group of Young Marines. Her description of this group is that it is one for troubled youth to attempt to instill discipline and maybe bring them into the fold."
I apologize to all of those individuals that I stood firm on with, that it was young Marine Private (based on all the information I received), but the discussion, question, and feedback on how the situation was handled by the Junior Officer, Sgt Mgr, and Mother have been outstanding - that I don't apologize for - thanks
If anything, I thoroughly enjoyed the story and my wife called me at home immediately following the incident - she knew I would enjoy hearing about it. I just said, "that SgtMaj owns that young Marine!"
RP Members this one comes from the wife that works at Camp Pendleton, CA Marine Base in the MCX.
A young "Youth" Marine was in the check-out line with his mother and "CORRECTION" (put his cover on inside!) He was approached by a AD Marine (Junior Officer) and asked to remove the cover. Immediately the young "Youth" Marine took up the defensive and asked the junior officer "who the F*** are you?" The Junior Officer then got into the young "Youth" Marine's face and told him to have some respect and remove the cover - it escalated into a shouting match in the check-out line in the MCX. Coming from the back of the store there was a loud roar from a Sergeant Major in the Marines (built like a tank according to my wife). He bellowed, "both of you shut your mouth there are families in here!" The MCX went silent and several employees and Marines hit the deck (no kidding). The SgtMaj came to the front and grabbed the young "Youth" Marine the by collar escorting him and the Junior Officer out of the MCX with the Young "Youth" Marine's mother yelling, "don't touch my boy!"
NEITHER MYSELF OR MY WIFE ARE IN THE HABIT OF TELLING A LIE OR MAKING UP A STORY - IT HAPPENED! FOCUS ON THE QUESTION - NOT WETHER YOU BELIEVE THE INCIDENT HAPPENED OR NOT!
RP Members was this handled properly by the Junior Officer, SgtMaj, or the mother? What would you have done?
THIS WAS A REAL SITUATION THAT TOOK PLACE YESTERDAY 12/30/2015
CORRECTION: I've receive collaboration from another lady who also had firsthand knowledge of this incident in the MCX - "The "youth" was not an AD USMC, but part of a group of Young Marines. Her description of this group is that it is one for troubled youth to attempt to instill discipline and maybe bring them into the fold."
I apologize to all of those individuals that I stood firm on with, that it was young Marine Private (based on all the information I received), but the discussion, question, and feedback on how the situation was handled by the Junior Officer, Sgt Mgr, and Mother have been outstanding - that I don't apologize for - thanks
If anything, I thoroughly enjoyed the story and my wife called me at home immediately following the incident - she knew I would enjoy hearing about it. I just said, "that SgtMaj owns that young Marine!"
RP Members this one comes from the wife that works at Camp Pendleton, CA Marine Base in the MCX.
A young "Youth" Marine was in the check-out line with his mother and "CORRECTION" (put his cover on inside!) He was approached by a AD Marine (Junior Officer) and asked to remove the cover. Immediately the young "Youth" Marine took up the defensive and asked the junior officer "who the F*** are you?" The Junior Officer then got into the young "Youth" Marine's face and told him to have some respect and remove the cover - it escalated into a shouting match in the check-out line in the MCX. Coming from the back of the store there was a loud roar from a Sergeant Major in the Marines (built like a tank according to my wife). He bellowed, "both of you shut your mouth there are families in here!" The MCX went silent and several employees and Marines hit the deck (no kidding). The SgtMaj came to the front and grabbed the young "Youth" Marine the by collar escorting him and the Junior Officer out of the MCX with the Young "Youth" Marine's mother yelling, "don't touch my boy!"
Marines
Discipline
Regulation
Military bearing
What Would You Do
Edited >1 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 937
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Once you become a miltary member your superior owns you , until you out rank him he or she owns you , I never served but my grandfathers , uncles , cousins and friends did and do serve , I hear a lot of stories but at the end of the day they loved their job and their time in the military , with that being said these rules are put into place because you represent our country and countrymen , to disrespect your superior, to me is a high offense and should not be taken lightly , if that offends you or your mommy the Marines was probably a bad choice , just think if this soilder disobeyed a direct order on the field he would cost someone their life , if you are asked to do something in the military , especially by a officer , do it and really fast too
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The junior officer selected the wrong location and time to make a correction. I understand the theory of not "walking past a mistake," but tact and judgement sometimes require an infraction be addressed later. The reaction of the young enlisted was equally incorrect. He should have removed his cover (hat for the AF people) with a "yes, sir. sorry, sir." It would have been over. (Despite the Marine probably being red-faced at being corrected in front of his family, nothing more need happen. His Mom probably knew her son was young and apt to do stupid stuff sometimes.)
The young officer might have ordered the junior Marine to see him at his office or place of duty at a specified date and time. This being a direct order, the young Marine should comply. At that place and time the officer could council the junior enlisted on uniform standards and behavioral expectations.
The Sgt Maj was being a Sgt Maj. He was solving the problem in the most constructive way he knew how. Removing the young Marine from the public area to discuss the uniform infraction was appropriate. I hope the officer learned something.
The young officer might have ordered the junior Marine to see him at his office or place of duty at a specified date and time. This being a direct order, the young Marine should comply. At that place and time the officer could council the junior enlisted on uniform standards and behavioral expectations.
The Sgt Maj was being a Sgt Maj. He was solving the problem in the most constructive way he knew how. Removing the young Marine from the public area to discuss the uniform infraction was appropriate. I hope the officer learned something.
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I believe the officer was right by correcting the junior marine but in front of family you don't get aggressive, you simply remind. The junior marine then responds with a attitude at this point you inform the marine, I am a officer and I ask for your respect and again let the marine know that it's against marine tradition to where a cover inside. If the junior gets big balls and wants to act tough at that point I'm glad a sgtmajor was there to correct the marine in the manner he needed to be. Regardless if the officer is a puny dusch you still show respect, follow tradition and if you don't a salty sgt maj will make you look like a ass in front of whoever bc you deserve it! You're a marine act like one and respect the. Pros and it's tradition
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The article fails to state whether the Junior Officer was in uniform or not. If the Junior Officer was not in uniform, he / she should have identified himself / herself by rank and name. Nonetheless, if this is true (and I'm not convinced it is), upon the disrespectful action by the young Marine when told to remove his cover inside the MCX, the Junior Officer should not have engaged in any "shouting match" and should have ordered the young Marine to turn over his ID card, had him identify his unit Commanding Officer and SgtMaj/1stSgt, and informed him he was being detained. The officer should have then contacted the Marine's command (i.e. Duty NCO / Officer) and had them come over and take him into custody for violating Article 89, Disrespect of a Superior Officer. If the Marine's parent command was not on base, the MP's should have been called in and have him taken into custody by them. The SgtMaj in the MCX should have come to the Junior Officer's aid in administering these actions, as should any other superior (NCO) within the building.
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs
1stSgt Gregory Weir I've been getting a lot of that "if this is true". Yes it was and I confirmed it through my wife's employees and the cashier at the MCX that same day before posting it. Yes, the Junior Officer was in uniform. I agree with your comments on not engaging in shouting match. The SgtMaj did his job in my opinion, just scared a few patrons when he yelled very loud, but that is what SgtMaj's do best from experience with the Marines. Thanks for your comments!
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1stSgt Gregory Weir
COL Mikel J. Burroughs - You're welcome, and thanks for clarifying. I agree with you on the SgtMaj's actions, even if he was assertive and boisterous. I think you'll agree I believe I was pretty accurate on what that Junior Officer should have done; he/she should have detained the insubordinate Marine, demanded he turn over his I.D. card, called his command's CO, SgtMaj, Staff Duty Officer / NCO, or possibly the MPs, then charged him for violating Article 89, Disrespect of a Superior Officer.
Also, I'm a bit dismayed that other Marines in the MCX didn't step in and put that young Marine in his place, something a good NCO (within earshot of the confrontation) would have done.
I am a biotech engineer in my civilian career, served almost 24 years, active duty and SMCR (broken time), mostly with AH-1W Cobra squadrons, and even though I'm retired still carry myself like a Marine. I live just outside the San Luis Rey gate of Camp Pendleton, and have a young son who's a 0352 with 1stMarDiv (1st LAR) over at Camp Horno; what a deal for him to be so close to home!
Semper Fidelis, out.
Also, I'm a bit dismayed that other Marines in the MCX didn't step in and put that young Marine in his place, something a good NCO (within earshot of the confrontation) would have done.
I am a biotech engineer in my civilian career, served almost 24 years, active duty and SMCR (broken time), mostly with AH-1W Cobra squadrons, and even though I'm retired still carry myself like a Marine. I live just outside the San Luis Rey gate of Camp Pendleton, and have a young son who's a 0352 with 1stMarDiv (1st LAR) over at Camp Horno; what a deal for him to be so close to home!
Semper Fidelis, out.
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Not a Marine, just a lowly Army Dogface from the 80s.
This is something that should have been handled as an 'on the spot correction'. Something calm and professional, unless the SM is a repeat offender of this, then something more verbose may be required.
This is something that should have been handled as an 'on the spot correction'. Something calm and professional, unless the SM is a repeat offender of this, then something more verbose may be required.
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If this happened and the Marine disrespected an officer he should face charges. The mother needs to shut her pie hole and understand that her son instantly obeying an officer may save his life someday. If this happened I hope there were major consequences for the Marine who disobeyed orders.
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs
Dottie Di Liddo I'm very sure that there was some action taken when the SgtMaj took them both outside. I know that if I was on Active Duty, I would have gotten the privates unit, first sergeant's name and commander, counseled the Junior Officer on the proper way to approach this type of incident, and I would have gone one step further to explain to the mother waht took place, what should have happened and that her son belongs to the Corp now! That's me and believe me in my 37 years of service I've been in this situation a number of times and handled it just like laid out! This crap happens in the institutions and Covers is just a small incident. I've dealt with insubornation that would make your hair turn gray, and not all in the Army (other branches during joint operations). That's why we have the UCMJ, discipline, and leadership that is involed daily down to the lowest levels and up the chain of command!
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Dottie Di Liddo
As the mother of two Marines I have the utmost respect for the Corps and for the men and women who serve. Even though both of my sons were in Iraq, I knew that their training was top notch and that they were going to be taken care of by their brothers in arms.
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oh yea if he is luckly!! I have been hearing the corps has been changing, but this sounds stupid. On both parties, 1st the young Marine should of showed the proper respect. 2nd the Jr officer should of used some tact, taken his ass outside then reamed him a new in private
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Has the military gone so namby pamby that there is a question about this? In the military you don't get to question authority like that. If the person senior to you tells you to follow the rules you follow them. If there is a question about his authority you take it up with your chain of command later.
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Minor infraction,wearing a cover indoors, while not under arms.
Call him aside remind him that Marines do not wear a cover indoors unless under arms.
Call him aside remind him that Marines do not wear a cover indoors unless under arms.
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SGT Chester Beedle
That's kind of how it started, but as soon as the Officer said something... not yelling or getting in the Marine's face, the Marine decided to get stupid. Even if the officer was in civilian clothing, he shouldn't have been spoken to that way. First, you never know who the person correcting you is. It could be a LT, or a younger looking Sergeant. Second, if the Marines are like the Army, anyone of any rank can make a correction to anyone else as long as it's done respectfully. You just have to be very tactful and make it more like a reminder.
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The way I understand , is the only time you wear your cover in a building is when you are under arms, carrying a weapon, and only then!
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