Posted on Oct 18, 2020
How Should I Go About Confronting My BN (Cadet) Top Three?
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First off, I'd like to state that I'm a cadet NCO and I know that the actual military is quite different from the cadet side of things. That being said, I'm in a bit of a predicament. I'm currently our BN S-3. Our BN's top three (BN CO, BN XO, and BN CSM), I feel, aren't holding the BN Staff, themselves, and their subordinate cadet officers/NCOs accountable. Since our unit is supposed to be cadet-run, I do not want to approach our instructor (retired US Army SFC) with my grievances about the top three. If it helps any (which I don't think it will), I'm a C/MSG (the CO is a C/MAJ, the XO is a C/CPT, and the CSM is a C/SGM). My BN XO cannot even do a proper uniform inspection nor does he know the rules and regulations for many basic drills/ceremonies and protocols. I was wondering how I should go about confronting the CO, XO, and CSM in regard to their conduct and the contempt that I have for them in relation to them fulfilling their respective duties and responsibilities?
Edited 4 y ago
Posted 4 y ago
Responses: 4
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First, I would suggest that you do mention this to your 1SG advisor. As it is or should be his job to mentor everyone and guide them in the right direction, he might appreciate your feedback. Also, he might illustrate that while they aren’t perfect in their current roles, they have identified strengths/ weaknesses elsewhere, just like you and I do. Perhaps you are more fit for the job, and I encourage you to be a silent professional and learn from their mistakes with tact. Just remember that when you’re in charge someone below you will one up you. Positional leadership doesn’t guarantee influence or wisdom within the role. Pinnacle leaders are preceded by their reputation and don’t rely on their title to do the work. In short, worry less about your cadet COC. It’s a learning experience and you should be grateful to experience this in a pre-military environment just as I did and many others have.
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LTC Jason Mackay
Steven Grant to add on here, and what SGT Javier Silva and CPT Griff Tatum said, think about the following:
- how do you know that the "top 3" aren't also about to be canned?
- the Commander is supposed to visualize the operating environment, direct, motivate, and use their tacit knowledge to command the unit. They are also responsible for everything that happens and fails to happen in their command. They mentor the officers.
- XO runs a staff executing commanders intent. The XO should be directing the staff. They also train, coach and mentor the staff.
- the S3 is FAR from a hapless victim. The top three in an AD BN is the BC, XO, and S3. If you are planning, coordinating, and helping lead MDMP to produce orders, you are in a position of significant influence. You're driving what the BN does to accomplish the directed missions and achieve commander's intent. Which all staff primaries are supposed to do, but your lane is critical and everyone usually has to follow your lead.
- the BC is in the lead. You can love him or hate him. It's his BN until it isn't. The same goes for an XO. If they lag in an area, a good leader shores them up. They should be backing you up in areas you lag in.
- The CSM advises the commander on soldier development, good order and discipline, talent management, and what ever the Commander delegates to them. The S3 doesn't answer to the CSM, but they have to collaborate and coordinate....they are in training, you are in training as a duty. The CSM is the top of the NCO Support Channel and not the chain of command. The CSM is an extension of the Commander.
-I know you are JROTC, but Company level NCOs should be inspecting uniforms and haircuts. They lead the soldiers assigned to them and run Day to day operations. I suppose this is muddled in a JROTC setting as there is little in the way of mission when you do this as an elective.
- the Battalion Staff should be planning future operations and tracking current operations. companies execute. The staff should figure out everything for the companies as they do not have staff. The companies should be focused on their assigned missions, standard operating procedures, and readiness of soldiers and equipment.
- I think you need to have the tactful conversation with the AI / SAI. Not about what others are not doing or doing badly, and focus on how you can do better to support the mission. If you see it, the SAI sees it.
- The S3 should be able to have a peer to peer conversation with the XO. In a BN they are the two most senior Field grades after the BC. Usually the S3 becomes the XO. But you can't just walk up and hit him with a bag of hot nickels. After you chat with the SAI, figure out a way for you and the XO to have a one on one conversation. Face to face. I'd approach it from this angle. We have some problems in the Battalion. I have some ideas of how we can fix them together. Give them a chance to get on board. Maybe they have just been hanging back because it is daunting to go it alone. Knowing that you want to team up, could be more doable. Especially if they don't know what to do. S3s and XOs can and have run BNs with and without a Commander. You can't run an insurgency against the BC, but you can fix things, solve problems, and use your positions to improve the BN.
- what is missing here is the personalities involved, what has led up to this point, and what is driving the SAI and the AI to handle things the way they have.
- walking in to the BC and CSM and telling them they are all screwed up is a bullet train to getting fired. As long as something isn't illegal, immoral, reckless or just plain stupid, you do it. If they are screwed up, their boss will take action. IRL that is the BDE Commander or even the Division Commander. In your world, it's the AI/SAI.
- at the end of this, you are a Cadet, learning to lead. Don't get too wound up,over this. Do your job, do it well. Inspire others. take care of people with dignity and respect. Lead by example and others will follow.
- how do you know that the "top 3" aren't also about to be canned?
- the Commander is supposed to visualize the operating environment, direct, motivate, and use their tacit knowledge to command the unit. They are also responsible for everything that happens and fails to happen in their command. They mentor the officers.
- XO runs a staff executing commanders intent. The XO should be directing the staff. They also train, coach and mentor the staff.
- the S3 is FAR from a hapless victim. The top three in an AD BN is the BC, XO, and S3. If you are planning, coordinating, and helping lead MDMP to produce orders, you are in a position of significant influence. You're driving what the BN does to accomplish the directed missions and achieve commander's intent. Which all staff primaries are supposed to do, but your lane is critical and everyone usually has to follow your lead.
- the BC is in the lead. You can love him or hate him. It's his BN until it isn't. The same goes for an XO. If they lag in an area, a good leader shores them up. They should be backing you up in areas you lag in.
- The CSM advises the commander on soldier development, good order and discipline, talent management, and what ever the Commander delegates to them. The S3 doesn't answer to the CSM, but they have to collaborate and coordinate....they are in training, you are in training as a duty. The CSM is the top of the NCO Support Channel and not the chain of command. The CSM is an extension of the Commander.
-I know you are JROTC, but Company level NCOs should be inspecting uniforms and haircuts. They lead the soldiers assigned to them and run Day to day operations. I suppose this is muddled in a JROTC setting as there is little in the way of mission when you do this as an elective.
- the Battalion Staff should be planning future operations and tracking current operations. companies execute. The staff should figure out everything for the companies as they do not have staff. The companies should be focused on their assigned missions, standard operating procedures, and readiness of soldiers and equipment.
- I think you need to have the tactful conversation with the AI / SAI. Not about what others are not doing or doing badly, and focus on how you can do better to support the mission. If you see it, the SAI sees it.
- The S3 should be able to have a peer to peer conversation with the XO. In a BN they are the two most senior Field grades after the BC. Usually the S3 becomes the XO. But you can't just walk up and hit him with a bag of hot nickels. After you chat with the SAI, figure out a way for you and the XO to have a one on one conversation. Face to face. I'd approach it from this angle. We have some problems in the Battalion. I have some ideas of how we can fix them together. Give them a chance to get on board. Maybe they have just been hanging back because it is daunting to go it alone. Knowing that you want to team up, could be more doable. Especially if they don't know what to do. S3s and XOs can and have run BNs with and without a Commander. You can't run an insurgency against the BC, but you can fix things, solve problems, and use your positions to improve the BN.
- what is missing here is the personalities involved, what has led up to this point, and what is driving the SAI and the AI to handle things the way they have.
- walking in to the BC and CSM and telling them they are all screwed up is a bullet train to getting fired. As long as something isn't illegal, immoral, reckless or just plain stupid, you do it. If they are screwed up, their boss will take action. IRL that is the BDE Commander or even the Division Commander. In your world, it's the AI/SAI.
- at the end of this, you are a Cadet, learning to lead. Don't get too wound up,over this. Do your job, do it well. Inspire others. take care of people with dignity and respect. Lead by example and others will follow.
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CPT (Join to see)
Per LTC Jason Mackay -
***** at the end of this, you are a Cadet, learning to lead. Don't get too wound up,over this. Do your job, do it well. Inspire others. take care of people with dignity and respect. Lead by example and others will follow.
*****
This cannot be overstated. Many classmates wont even Enlist/Commission. It's just another high school class to some, so who cares.
Seriously, I can't explain it, but when I went through Basic Training I was 39 years old, and my "peers" were only a few years older than you are right now. So the entire experience for me was watching one train wreck after another, and not being able to do anything about it. All I could do was join them in the rewards of learning in the form of push ups.
You are there to "learn" and there are going to be classmates that aren't motivated to do anything. Whether they do or not doesn't really matter either.
An important take away from this experience is to learn to work through group problems with others, and failing that figuring out how to be successful when others are un-removable roadblocks.
***** at the end of this, you are a Cadet, learning to lead. Don't get too wound up,over this. Do your job, do it well. Inspire others. take care of people with dignity and respect. Lead by example and others will follow.
*****
This cannot be overstated. Many classmates wont even Enlist/Commission. It's just another high school class to some, so who cares.
Seriously, I can't explain it, but when I went through Basic Training I was 39 years old, and my "peers" were only a few years older than you are right now. So the entire experience for me was watching one train wreck after another, and not being able to do anything about it. All I could do was join them in the rewards of learning in the form of push ups.
You are there to "learn" and there are going to be classmates that aren't motivated to do anything. Whether they do or not doesn't really matter either.
An important take away from this experience is to learn to work through group problems with others, and failing that figuring out how to be successful when others are un-removable roadblocks.
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Steven Grant First off. There is no "top three" when it comes to the cadet officers in a unit. You don't report to a BN CSM, who is an enlisted member. If you believe that you cannot have a proper discussion with your CO/XO, you need to bring it up to your AI, or SAI. That is what they are there for. They can make a decision to replace whomever they seem fit to replace. You can have a discussion with your CO/XO, but if they're not willing to listen, you may be out of a staff job. The other option is to just leave it be.
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MAJ Ronnie Reams
AFAIK, top three are the E 7 8 9 in the USAF, In fact, they had to take a stripe away from MSG and give it a roof to come up with Top Three.
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Steven Grant
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to include the CSM as a cadet officer. In our BN, the top three are seniors, so they have more privileges than I, a junior, do.
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SGT Javier Silva
Steven Grant Although rank has to do with some privileges, positions do as well. However, a CSM doesn't have more privilege than an officer does. You still outrank that CSM. Talk to the leadership, or talk to the instructors.
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Steven, you are in a clown show. You sound like you're trying to do the right thing. Let the others do as they see fit. Offer to help as best you can. Don't worry too much about what the others are doing. You just continue to march, discharge your responsibilities to the best of your ability, try to be helpful and refrain from being publicly judgemental. This will pay big dividends in the future. If the others are as ate up as you've led me to believe they will likely figuratively hang themselves, given enough time. The cadre is likely very aware of the shortcomings of those you describe. Once you are commissioned no one will care what you did or didn't do as a cadet. You will be free of them and can go on to meet different clowns (but also some of the brightest, most organized and responsible people you will ever know). Tough it out for now and don't take the bait. It would be momentarily gratifying to point out how unsuited so-and-so is for a particular position but you're not the only one to notice this. Don't let them cause you to react. Just maintain a steady course of doing your job. If the others are somehow successful its no skin off your nose. Be the best S-3 you can. If you're shouldering additional responsibility someone will probably notice but that's tangent to the actual value of you becoming used to doing more than your share. This will develop both you and your reputation.
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