How will the Army transition with transgender in open showers?

The current administration and high command elements have decided to make the military one grand social experiment, so I imagine they will figure it out. I am so grateful I served when I did. I used to promote joining the military. Towards the end of my career, I volunteer coached high school baseball, and I had several of my players join. I ensured they dealt with honest recruiters, and went over the paperwork. NOW? If somebody asked me what I thought, I could not, with proper conviction encourage it. My nephew was the last one I had join, and he joined with every intention of making it a career. After he told me things that were going on, he did his tour and got out, and I wasn't about to even attempt to talk him into staying. So nope, the military lost a decent off the side recruiter. The military should teach how to destroy and effectively kill the enemy, destroy their targets, and toughen them up mentally and physically enough to endure the rigors of combat operations. Under the Biden administration, they have brought their divisiveness into the ranks of the military. Example, what are your pronouns? The only pronouns should be, Private, Private First Class, Specialist, Corporal, Sergeant, Seaman, Airman, Petty Officer, Gunny, Chief, etc. etc. Those are the ONLY PRONOUNS that should be used. Hockey Pucks to the garbage going on.

First, there have always been homosexuals in the military.

Second, what the hell has the Army come to that something like this even needs to be discussed?

......all the combat arms units need to focus on hand to hand combat and staying alive ....the rear units have the luxury to shower......

That’s nonsense …

I find it fascinating how little regard we seem willing to give to women troops in these situations. We're falling all over ourselves to be concerned with the trans service members' feelings but don't seem to accord women in the same showers the same degree of consideration.

Things may not have reached this level of drama in the military as they have in other environments, like gyms and jails where open showers are more common and there have been many recorded incidents of trans individuals taking the fullest possible of the relatively impossible position they have put the authorities in, to the detriment of women's' feelings of safety and security while they are stark naked and relatively defenseless in the presence of genetic men who are typically physically larger and stronger. I'm sure the DOD will do its level best to suppress news of any such incidence in the modern military, but as the number of trans troops increase, so will these unfortunate incidents.

(I call them "unfortunate incidents" because the press releases rarely describe them as sexual assault, or rape, even when that is just exactly what they are.)

I have a daughter in the military, and I hope she never has to worry about being accosted by someone who has exploited the regs to gain access the women's' showers for their own evil intentions, but that happens all too frequently in the civilian world.

If we're going to be considerate of people's feelings, let's try and find a balance that's workable so we never arrive at that awful moment, so we can avoid having the investment this country has made in this military and its personnel go to waste. Women who feel unsafe will simply take the training we provided them, and leave. We have trouble enough meeting recruiting goals without young women being told to get accustomed to the presence of genetic men in their showers and other living spaces.

And for anyone who'd like to give me a little quiz on biology and suggest I'm not welcome in the conversation without a PhD in morphology, just know that such arguments are the same special pleadings, ad hominems (arguments against the man instead of the argument he raises) and ad verecundiam (arguments from authority), all classic logical fallacies that routinely fail to resolve problems everywhere else, like telling a man he can't have an opinion on abortion because he lacks a uterus, or telling a women she can possibly understand what it's like to go to war because she never served.

All people are very capable of imagining and reasoning, and don't have to pass your test to do so. And anyone insisting that we need to, say, pass a pop quiz on amino acids in order to contribute to one of the most tenuous issues of the day is flattering themselves and demeaning others with irrelevant nonsense.

There is a strange suggestion inherent to all of these pro-trans positions that trans people have no responsibility at all for the impact that their presence has on others, and that the physical anomaly they present to people who are not suffering from the same disorder is irrelevant and of no consequence, but that's the same awful structure as the soft racism of low expectations is when we think some minority Marine from a tough neighborhood who had to struggle to earn the GED and qualify for the Marine Corps isn't apt to be just as capable and teeming with potential as a privileged white kid from the OC. Trans women are perfectly capable of understanding that their presence is, among other things, not as easily explained in a shower full of naked women where no one is wearing name tags. How do women know this isn't just a naked guy who helped himself to their space for the kicks? What if their hair style isn't able to suggest that quite so easily? What if, in the most neurological sense, the shock of a naked, genetically male individual among the women in the shower space is experienced far sooner than the purportedly rational explanation that the male genitalia they're seeing is just the physical feature of a person who'd rather be thought of as a woman?

Or is that entire line of argument not valid because I didn't get a PhD in human morphology and genetics, and why is it again that only those people are entitled to understand our experiences for us?

You see? While we're busy pretending this is the Whig-Cliosophic Society (my nephew debates at Princeton) real women are having traumatic experience both in the military and in civilian life, and the only ones whose feelings are given much consideration are the trans folks, but not the women.

When did it become okay for us to disregard women on behalf of anyone? And when did some women's need trump other women's needs?

The ultimate answer is that there is no pat solution to the problem, but the safest one would be to make shower spaces more individualized and private, but we can barely provide our lower enlisted safe and healthy barracks spaces free of mold and mildew without blaming them for their problem and branding it a discipline thing.

I see a pattern developing. Cowardly management avoid the responsibility of making potentially unpopular decisions by blaming those least able to affect the needed change.

How American of us.

My daughter is leaving the service. I did some of the hardest and best years of my life in uniform, but if I had to enlist today, I doubt I'd have chosen to serve. The military is bleeding credibility and respect among the people we serve and from among whom we recruit. How wise is it to cater to a handful of inflexible people with medical issues if it results in falling readiness and it turns us into a punchline?

If it results in one woman's abuse, it was not worth it. And it may already have.

In Viet Nam we had our hooch maids come into the shower room where we were taking showers, and they weren't bothered. Military are usually able to adjust to just about anything, or any condition. When we had to use the showers where we used the Laudry and bath showers, everyone had their showers by gender and pay grade, with the officers seperate. There hould be no difference for Transgender.

Obsession with other people’s bodies, be they cis or trans has no place. If someone wears the uniform, they deserve respect and dignity without exception. Honestly this question made me recall the shower scene in the movie “Starship Troopers” where males, females and J would assume trans soldiers showered together and it just wasn’t an issue. I know that that was a Hollywood movie, but based on the experience of repealing DADT where almost none of the fears people had about gay and lesbian soldiers showering with straight soldiers came to pass, I believe this would be the same.

Nobody should care what kind of primary or secondary sex characteristics a soldier has, and hopefully someday all of this prudish restroom obsession will be as much of a non-issue as racially integrated units (and by extension restrooms and showers) are today.

I would prefer that the Army not allow transgender in the service, but that is my opinion. But since they do- I think they should go to private latrines such as at home, a single person with a lock on the door. If not then they need to just remove the signs and let everything go free. Maybe label the latrines, Penis, or Vagina, and if you have that body part you use that latrine.

This comment will cause some heartache... people espousing transgender ideology should not be in the military. The separation of soldiers into their respective transgender beliefs is a barrier to unit cohesion. The accommodation of respective medical processes to maintain transgender choices makes medical care less available to non-trans warfighters. The associated psychological problems. requires, again, command attention that will be diverted from warfighters. People desiring a transgender lifestyle as civilians isn't a problem. The U. S. military should not be a large, captive social experiment pool.

Imagine, if you will, that ALL SHOWERS are open. and ALL PERSONNEL REGARDLESS OF GENDER use them at any and all times. Male and female members are in "the full Monty" (as it were), for as long as it takes for each member to accomplish their bodily washing tasks. It is not sexual; it is simply the necessary configuration for that kind of hygiene.

That is how it is, even today, with openly gay personnel in the military. I am not expressing criticism; I am simply stating the facts. The sexual tension that would exist with traditional mixed-gender (M/F) showering exists TODAY with openly gay personnel in open showers with personnel who are not gay.

If this gets your attention, then note that trans-genderism will sharply accelerate this.

BTW: If you would like to see a taste of this, go see the movie "Starship Troopers." (Also, BTW, I am in it: Third blur from the top, "Football" scene). (Another BTW: I am NOT recommending that movie.)

Well, Field Showers have limited water. Missions still have to get done. Rotational times with a set time limit could be one solution. But, no matter the solution, there is no fix currently that will satisfy everyone. There's always going to be one person that's unhappy. I'd just be happy to get a shower, especially if I've been without one for 30+ days.

I think all of military installations should do away with communal or open showers. That would solve any issues.

Are the branches of the U.S. military now "accepting" transgendered soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines? What about those who are transitioning? At what point are these transgendered?

This is simple-install a shower curtain.

If we'd just Starship Troopers and do co-ed showers, this would be a non-issue, except troops cannot even behave with separate showers and living quarters.

Huh. If people are driven to the military for this surgery - perhaps the military (which, after all, supposedly protects and serves all Americans) would become involved in making sure any American who needs this surgery doesn't face prejudice or financial burden. While we're at it, assist health care, housing, and education for all Americans. So only those who truly want to join, do. And then if ALL Americans have this, so will veterans. And thumbs up to those saying "Suck it up soldier." Well, not that way. At least not in an occupied shower.

Now you are bringing social test tube issues into the military. There are a couple of ways this can be treated. Basically a man or woman is exactly that. They can identify however they like. If they joined the military as a man or woman then they are treated as such until they have completed the transition to become what they identify as. If they don't like it, that is just this side of tough.

The second way is simple as well. You go into a shower etc to shower.. why are you bothering to look at what another person has or doesn't have under their clothing? Focus on the task which is you taking care of YOUR hygiene. Until such time as an issue ie harassment in the shower etc... it's not an issue.

The third is to treat it much like co-ed showering and either assign times or other such measures to segregate the "sexes" and again this will depend on if there is an actual problem.

Personally and professionally my job, my duty does not involve what a person has or doesn't have when they are showering. Why are you eyeballing someone else when you should be in there getting clean and getting out. I'll adapt what a Senior Drill told us a few hundred times. "If you can taste it you are taking too long." -> "If you have time to look around, you are taking too long." Get in, shower, rinse off, get out, Simple and as complex as that. If its anything more... the problem is you and not the person you are looking at.

I am about to reenlist for the first time, and I frequently have conversations with civilians and family members who are curious how the military handles this issue. I always respond: a democratic nation’s military must be a representation of the nation’s society. No class or demographic should be excluded, and by allowing all to serve it helps military members better understand the citizens they protect. Even if they don’t make the cut for combat arms or deployment, their presence in the ranks and service in whatever capacity they are able adds value to the force by representing citizens like them.

I wrestle with the question. I believe every American should have the opportunity to serve, if qualified.

Let me first say This is a opinionated question remember that before you start down voting and calling names. They will make it work always have always will. How they do it? I or no one else know that answer. However if it was up to me the answer would be you use the bathroom/ shower the identifies
with your Birth Certificate unless you have a Full Transition completed. I DO NOT care what you identify as but only what your body parts say you are. 2nd your not in there for a sight seeing tour you are there for personal Hygiene get it done and move on. If that doesn't work for you get to buckets and find some bushes.