Posted on Apr 2, 2016
How would you react to a soldier who responds negatively to a uniform correction?
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How would you respond to a lower enlisted responding negatively to you trying to correct their uniform mistake?
There are plenty of posts I'm seeing on facebook where someone says they tried to make a uniform correction to a soldier, and this soldier talked back to them saying they weren't going to change anything.
How would you handle this situation as an NCO?
There are plenty of posts I'm seeing on facebook where someone says they tried to make a uniform correction to a soldier, and this soldier talked back to them saying they weren't going to change anything.
How would you handle this situation as an NCO?
Uniforms
NCOs
Discipline
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 19
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If the Soldier belonged to me, they would have a long day with uniform drills and counselings. If they belonged to another NCO, I would have a discussion with that NCO about it. If that failed, I would talk to their 1SG about it. The latter happened with a female Soldier on their hair. And she apparently had a history of issues with her mouth and attitude with other NCOs and Soldiers. She was counseled for patterns of misbehavior and threatened with a chapter for it. I saw her in the PX a few days later and she apologized for her behavior. Sometimes it just takes letting them know the consequences for their actions to straighten them out.
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SFC Randy Purham
Same thing. They belong to somebody. You get a name - even just rank and last name search them on global email and usually you can narrow it down from there. The other thing is follow the patch.
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LTC (Join to see)
Perhaps, she had issues in her life that upset her that had improved. You must always consider such things. Of course, not an excuse for poor behavior, but mitigating circumstances must be considered and appropriate referrals made for assistance.
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MSgt (Join to see)
Being an NCO, you can give orders. I'm sorry, maybe you've had a bad day, but you need to button that top correctly; thank you. If there is a negative response. Soldier, Airmen, Marine, Seaman what ever, that was not a request it was an order. If still a negative response. What unit are you in? Who is your Commander? Produce your Military ID. If still a negative response. I call MPs and report a possible security breach.
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PO3 Kyle Zendarski
I as a E2 corrected a master cheif surrounded by other top brass in the chow line and he thanked me for it. Also been yelled at for not wearing a cover within building zones
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I was in this situation. But I had an unfair advantage, I was working as a gate guard checking IDs for entry to the base and I would have people come in all the time wearing their hats like ball caps or wearing do rags in duty uniform so I would just hold her ID until they fix themselves then I'll give them their ID back!
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I've been in the Army for 13 years, and I've never had this issue.
1. In my mind, I would body slam them.
2. In reality, I would ensure that their unit gave them a DA FORM 4856 for failure to follow instruction, disrespect, etc. I would recommend that the Soldier receive an Article 15 for their actions and follow up on the process. If no process was made to correct the Soldier by the "counseling tool" of th DA FORM and Article 15, that higher expects us to use, I would contact the units next higher leader with in the NCO support channel until I reached a level high enough to make it happen. Yeah, I would do that over a disrespectful Soldier. It's not going to happen while I'm still in the Army.
1. In my mind, I would body slam them.
2. In reality, I would ensure that their unit gave them a DA FORM 4856 for failure to follow instruction, disrespect, etc. I would recommend that the Soldier receive an Article 15 for their actions and follow up on the process. If no process was made to correct the Soldier by the "counseling tool" of th DA FORM and Article 15, that higher expects us to use, I would contact the units next higher leader with in the NCO support channel until I reached a level high enough to make it happen. Yeah, I would do that over a disrespectful Soldier. It's not going to happen while I'm still in the Army.
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SSG(P) (Join to see)
SFC I understand and respect what you said as it is in the regulations; however it surprises me that you would jump straight to an Article 15. I say this for a couple reasons.
1 everyone is human we train soldiers not program robots. So that soldier may be having a bad day.
2 Are you in the soldiers unit. Poor mentoring creates poor performance. So if they aren't in your unit maybe what they need is your guidance.
3 although the regulations state that everyone is spoken to tactfully we all know that doesn't happen. So did you correct them tactfully or did you make them feel like absolute trash.
Personally though I feel like we need to go back to the good old wood line days. Although I was already in when the change happened I did not always have NCO's who followed the simple counseling methods. Which ones do I have more respect for? The one who smoked me. (I'm not talking about this ten repetition stuff either) after being smoked we where done. I respect them more because when I came to my first unit I learned a lot however I didn't usually mess up more than once and the one time that I was multiple we discovered was possibly due to the medication that I was on. (The issue stopped shortly after getting off the medication) Now had I been counseled on those mistakes I could make a fortune by selling my old counseling packet as a guide for writing counselings. However just because I messed up didn't mean that I was a bad soldier I learned from those lessons and we were done. I think that the military has gotten to quick to take rank and pay from those under us. A great mentor that I have told me that when he was in he never recommended rank being taken away. Time and money sure but what does taking the rank show. What he would recommend is the rank be suspended. That way the it gave a boost for the soldier to not mess up. If you know that if you get one negative counseling, if you are late one time that you are going to loose your rank you are going to make sure that you are 30 minutes prior your going to triple check during pmcs and you will be walking on egg shells creating a habit for yourself.
1 everyone is human we train soldiers not program robots. So that soldier may be having a bad day.
2 Are you in the soldiers unit. Poor mentoring creates poor performance. So if they aren't in your unit maybe what they need is your guidance.
3 although the regulations state that everyone is spoken to tactfully we all know that doesn't happen. So did you correct them tactfully or did you make them feel like absolute trash.
Personally though I feel like we need to go back to the good old wood line days. Although I was already in when the change happened I did not always have NCO's who followed the simple counseling methods. Which ones do I have more respect for? The one who smoked me. (I'm not talking about this ten repetition stuff either) after being smoked we where done. I respect them more because when I came to my first unit I learned a lot however I didn't usually mess up more than once and the one time that I was multiple we discovered was possibly due to the medication that I was on. (The issue stopped shortly after getting off the medication) Now had I been counseled on those mistakes I could make a fortune by selling my old counseling packet as a guide for writing counselings. However just because I messed up didn't mean that I was a bad soldier I learned from those lessons and we were done. I think that the military has gotten to quick to take rank and pay from those under us. A great mentor that I have told me that when he was in he never recommended rank being taken away. Time and money sure but what does taking the rank show. What he would recommend is the rank be suspended. That way the it gave a boost for the soldier to not mess up. If you know that if you get one negative counseling, if you are late one time that you are going to loose your rank you are going to make sure that you are 30 minutes prior your going to triple check during pmcs and you will be walking on egg shells creating a habit for yourself.
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SFC (Join to see)
SSG(P) (Join to see), I agree with the mentor that you mentioned, when it comes to recommending rank reduction and forfeiture of pay. I have actually only recommended that once, and it was for a SPC that got a DUI! I saved his career because he has overcame that and been promoted since that very poor decision.
That being said, adding that just because someone is given an article 15, doesn't mean that they are getting demoted or losing money from their paycheck. Most of the time, Soldiers are given a suspended sentence of just extra duty. This is because those individuals leaders are looking out for them even though they made poor choices. We are quite aware that Soldiers need their money and we really don't want to recommend that it be taken away from them. However, the reason that Soldiers are more disrespectful and less discipline, is because leaders today have quit using the article 15 and counseling process because it requires time and work.
I verbally counsel Soldiers more often than formally counseling them because I'm pretty effective at it. As I mentioned, and these types of behaviors have never happened to me. I believe this is because I take care of my Soldiers and show them respect, and all other Soldiers within all of my units know this. So I'm respected from the top and the bottom.
I do however require that Soldiers adhere to the high standards that I require.
If Soldiers are not held to a high standard, and punished when they make choice to do the wrong thing, then the Army will only get worse with the discipline issues.
Not in an unit that I'm in.
Thanks for commenting.
That being said, adding that just because someone is given an article 15, doesn't mean that they are getting demoted or losing money from their paycheck. Most of the time, Soldiers are given a suspended sentence of just extra duty. This is because those individuals leaders are looking out for them even though they made poor choices. We are quite aware that Soldiers need their money and we really don't want to recommend that it be taken away from them. However, the reason that Soldiers are more disrespectful and less discipline, is because leaders today have quit using the article 15 and counseling process because it requires time and work.
I verbally counsel Soldiers more often than formally counseling them because I'm pretty effective at it. As I mentioned, and these types of behaviors have never happened to me. I believe this is because I take care of my Soldiers and show them respect, and all other Soldiers within all of my units know this. So I'm respected from the top and the bottom.
I do however require that Soldiers adhere to the high standards that I require.
If Soldiers are not held to a high standard, and punished when they make choice to do the wrong thing, then the Army will only get worse with the discipline issues.
Not in an unit that I'm in.
Thanks for commenting.
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LTC (Join to see)
A good leader must do all these thing, Showing respect to your soldiers does not compromise high standards, it actually enhances the high standards by the leader modeling what is expected of the soldiers.
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