Posted on Oct 16, 2016
How would you react to an E2 who "smart mouths" you in formation?
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Here's the background. You're a senior E5. Your troops are in formation and you're handing out work for the day. You hand out an assignment to a fresh E2 with less than a year in and only a few months at your command. They blatantly complain and tell you to choose someone else. You calmly tell them they will do this task and they tell you to shove it and give it to someone else. How do you react?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 3697
Well first I have to say, I was always the Soldier to disagree with Madan task. Never in front of other soldiers but off to the side. I was very fortunate to have a squad leader who understood my disagreement. I never questioned a direct order. But we have all had the daily task of BS. I never tried to get out of doing work but if I could make it easier to complete the task with less men ,so others could have down time I did.
So when I became a Sgt. No one questioned me because they knew I had already broken down the task and what was left had to be done. I believe if I ever had a solider disrespect me my other soldiers would have had a little talk with them.
So when I became a Sgt. No one questioned me because they knew I had already broken down the task and what was left had to be done. I believe if I ever had a solider disrespect me my other soldiers would have had a little talk with them.
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I've dealt with this and I'm a Specialist not an NCO. I calmly remind them that I told them to do it and that things could be worse. Now I have it a little bit easier though all my orders are backed up by my squad leader and my platoon sgt. Usually when I have to delegate details or jobs it's because my squad leader is away. So if it continues it goes straight to a SFC. I have no pitty for those who get on his bad side.
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I'm old school Navy so he wouldn't of been standing in formation for long and would of been picking his ass off the ground. Today's Navy would of been counseling.
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Take them to the side and tell them that if they don't fucking do it they'll be cleaning heads for the next 6 months...with their toothbrush.
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Punching them squarely in the face would get the best long term results. Others would think twice before doing something so stupid. The downside is the jail sentence. Might be worth it, though.
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wait for all to leave then ask why this E-2 was being lippy give him every opportunity to explain
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Are you the LPO? If so, Counseling Chit. Written out ready to submit. Have a meeting saying this is going in unless you can tell me what is up with your public pronouncements? If they continue with the complaining submit the chit. It appears that your E2 feels like they made a bad decision joining the Navy, or perhaps there are other unknown issues. It requires some research prior to dropping the hammer. You should seek the advice of your LPO or Chief. This on-line stuff is nice, but your LPO/chief can probably provide better advice.
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After reading through the comments a bit I noticed something of a trend. Why do Army Personnel go straight for the Article 15. I was trained throughout the Navy that sending them to Captains Mast (article 15) means that I the supervisor could not handle the situation at my level. Depending on the severity of the disrespect, i would tell said individual, to standby by after Quarters ( formation) for a "Discussion"and get the LPO (senior E6) to observe my counseling . If the offence is severe enough, I would have to make an example in front of the work center ( squad ).
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SPC Don Wynn
Well, AR15 in Army could be company level, meaning no permanent record of incident, while still losing pay and/or time. And there most definitely would be some type of counseling session; either privately in top's office or with E-6 present, with bare minimum of ascertaining E-2's mental state (have you lost what little mind you have?) as well as all the physical activity this little welp could handle for about 1 hour.
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Write up and counseling. If it happens again another write-up, more counseling, and possibly an Art.15-company level(2wk/2wk). 3rd time deserves a write up and art15-Co.lvl. no matter what. 4 th time go Field grade and out they go.
As to "counseling" - a problem private is your problem. You are required to fix. So be prepared to spend some time finding out what the real problem is and doing some correction, not just the paperwork and explaining why.
As to "counseling" - a problem private is your problem. You are required to fix. So be prepared to spend some time finding out what the real problem is and doing some correction, not just the paperwork and explaining why.
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SPC Christopher Perrien
The above was NCO boilerplate , as I knew it when I was in 85-89,90-91. However at E-4 , we had easier ways. We could just report them to whoever ordered us to get something done and bam hit them with the "in effect I was acting at the rank of E-5 to O-6 telling your sorry E-2 ass what to do". There was also the "other-side", since I was a member of what is now known as the E-4 mafia, even though we never knew that in the "woodland camo gang", The Lord would not have helped an E-2 if he got on the bad side of us, and usually a mouthing off private found that out super quick either from the immediate "acts of god " that soon happened or the panicky warnings of his fellow (usually basic/AIT buddies) privates about what would happen to a private who crossed a member of the now invented "E-4 mafia". Get with the program or you will be getting out, one way or another. Our code was our bond, power, and authority, we made the army and kept it running right back then, no NCO babying, write-ups, or Article 15's required.
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Did happen. I was happy to oblige. Instead of the four hour road trip that was under question, my annoying troop found himself waxing a school bus for two days. Never had another problem with him.
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It's simple. Address it immediately while in formation and then take the wayward lad somewhere private and tear him a new *******. Also, give written counseling so that you have proof if/when he/she does it again and in becomes necessary to take him/her to Captain's Mast (Article 15 or NJP).
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Rallybook should have something like GoToMeeting where we could all log in and role play stuff. Hope I am still alive when they figure out some type of large virtual reality thing where we can really get into it.
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Wow... when you said smart mouth, I assumed you were talking about cracking a joke and then I would have assumed you had a lax work environment. But that is blatant disrespect regardless how much time he has in or how long he's been under your charge. He needs to be taken to task immediately because that is a severe lack of respect for authority and can undermine your authority if he gets away with it.
Chances are he is someone who is literally trying to get kicked out. Maybe he is disillusioned with why he joined in the first place.
First, separate him from the rest of the platoon. Send the rest to do their work or whatever it is you were tasking them with. Talk to him on a one on one basis. Figure out what's going on. If the disrespect continues, then you bring it to the next chain higher whether it's your SNCO or workcenter supervisor or whomever. Brief them on the situation and then get to the bottom of it.
2 things are going to happen. You guys are going to break through to him and figure out where the lack of respect is coming and nip it in the bud. Or he's going to continue with his disrespect and then you'll probably be forced to do paperwork on him and punish him with cleaning the COs toilet after working hours. But if he's trying to get himself kicked out, make sure he knows that it's not going to work. We can make his life a whole lot more miserable if he thinks the military life sucks.
Either Fall In Line or Accept the Consequences
Chances are he is someone who is literally trying to get kicked out. Maybe he is disillusioned with why he joined in the first place.
First, separate him from the rest of the platoon. Send the rest to do their work or whatever it is you were tasking them with. Talk to him on a one on one basis. Figure out what's going on. If the disrespect continues, then you bring it to the next chain higher whether it's your SNCO or workcenter supervisor or whomever. Brief them on the situation and then get to the bottom of it.
2 things are going to happen. You guys are going to break through to him and figure out where the lack of respect is coming and nip it in the bud. Or he's going to continue with his disrespect and then you'll probably be forced to do paperwork on him and punish him with cleaning the COs toilet after working hours. But if he's trying to get himself kicked out, make sure he knows that it's not going to work. We can make his life a whole lot more miserable if he thinks the military life sucks.
Either Fall In Line or Accept the Consequences
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Bring him to a closed door session with another leader preferably your squad leader, with a counseling discussing the negative treatment. The way the army is now and they way that soldier is corrective training wouldn't work. remember now a days in the army corrective training isn't gonna sort out everything. He soldiers these days feel entitled and think they know everything. Look up article 91, easiest one to throw around and use against a bad mouthed soldier. Especially after a first offense you wouldn't need a paper trail for disrespecting a NCO. Do your homework and research that's basically 85% of your job.
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I would react with mild shock because I would be trying to figure out why an E2 was in my formation.
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Step back and call out his section leader and him
Dismiss the platoon to continue the work detail
find out what is going on and what's with the attitude/ while giving a formal written counseling
Send him back to work detail and have section leader report back if any other problems arise
Dismiss the platoon to continue the work detail
find out what is going on and what's with the attitude/ while giving a formal written counseling
Send him back to work detail and have section leader report back if any other problems arise
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HE OR SHE WOULD HAVE A ROUGH FOUR WEEKENDS OF MOTOR POOL, CLEANING HEADS, IF IT HAPPENS AGAIN THEN THEY WOULD TALK TO THE OLD MAN.
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You still have them do it and you wright them up and give them more things to do.
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