Posted on Oct 16, 2016
How would you react to an E2 who "smart mouths" you in formation?
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Here's the background. You're a senior E5. Your troops are in formation and you're handing out work for the day. You hand out an assignment to a fresh E2 with less than a year in and only a few months at your command. They blatantly complain and tell you to choose someone else. You calmly tell them they will do this task and they tell you to shove it and give it to someone else. How do you react?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 3697
Been there, this happened, and when you get promoted to an E5 faster than your coworkers, AND you have to set the detail for the day, I had one say that, like the E2 and I stated, you have a choice to do it, or be written up, I have no issues with doing that today, make it happen and get to work. The other one was much sneakier, the E3 who wasn't promoted, he said, ok, got it, and disappeared on me, after I found him in the barber shop of our boat, I stated get back to work and he was a bigger guy than me, and he started to point his finger at me, and get in my face, and he was upset, I was telling him what to do, I stated, the next thing that comes out of your mouth is sorry and I will get to work, or I will escort you to our division officer and we can have you at xo mast tomorrow. If you ever point your finger at me again and do this crap, I won't even talk to you about it. He transferred off our boat the next month. It wasn't boot camp where you can yell and get into their face, it was a ship that wasn't that big but buttheads did exist. The E2 scenario is pretty easy to deal with, there are more challenging scenarios out there where people push the limits, but you have to deal with it immediately. I was pretty young, 20, and still learning, but I got a quick indoc on slackers and the games they play.
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Also you could give members that do respect you some type of incentive for doing the right thing. Every time they turn down a task whoever steps up and take it for example, Gets a longer lunch break,a morning to skip PT, a day off, or whatever is feasible in your situation. Just do not announce the incentive until after someone step ups!
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They obviously do not understand how frustrating it is to be the person in charge, Therefore overwhelm them with responsibility and delegate things to them that require them to act as a team leader and get their fellow members to listen and follow their instructions. Thats how you get respect and build a respectable member at the same time! It also shows that you work well with adversity.
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I agree this needs to be handled immediately. But I would factor in that this is a boot camp. I would tell the apprentice to stand by after the formation is dismissed and counsel with Extra Military Instruction and document with a Counseling Chit. And make it known that the insubordination will not be tolerated and continuing insubordination will lead to further administrative action which could lead to XOI, Mast, other NJP or OTH.
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I don't care if that E-2 had less than a year or not, he'd need a new face and it would take a combat engineer to dig my boot out of his rear end.
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I had this very thing happen. I told her I'd give her one chance to obey my order OR be standing in the Commander's office at 1700 getting disciplinary action. She squeaks back "I'll take my chances with the commander." So I order her to go stand over out of the way at parade rest until we were finished (washing vehicles from the field). I did that so she couldn't change her mind 10 minutes before we were done, jump in and help at the last second and say I lied on her and that she really did obey. Within 48 hours she lost a stripe. Done deal! 14 days restriction (which she broke and got her civilian clothes confiscated), lost of a pay grade, and I believe loss of some of her paycheck.
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UCMJ...ensure your counseling is current; proper documentation showing what is expected of the Soldier upon their entry to the unit. Then recommend UCMJ for failure to obey an order!
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Back during the Nam, l would have put my foot in his, well new Military sucks, Sempi Fi.
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GET IN THAT PUNKS FACE and tell the little turd, life as he knows it has just ended.
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Lock their heals, make them stand fast, dismiss all other's. Then spend the day with my jump boot up their ass making them miserable.
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I just noticed the juvenile marks on the Marines hands in the picture. Wonder what brought on this altercation?
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This is an easy fix , I saw they got five nights of extra duty in the engine or boiler room chipping paint with a knuckle buster and it always changed the attitude
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The military is a war machine. The correct response is a punch in the mouth. It will also correct anyone else in the platoon thinking of being a smart ass.
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As we all know there are three sides to a story, and a story inside a story. I'm a Vietnam vet and been in the Navy for 3 years and Air Force for 20 yrs. I've seen so much conflict between high ranks and lower ranks. More than enough lowest rank is always at fault. Its proof right here in this blog. All these higher ranks that are responding to this question immediately are on the E5 side. First of all , being CALMLY too one person may not be calmly to others. How did the E5 calmly speak to his troops. Was he calmly saying " Hey, do you think your bright enough to do this task"? Or was he very diplomatic when he asked this young troop to do this task. The E2 also could be a spoiled little brat.
I have seen so many E4 and above just let their ranks get to their head. It's like giving a MONkEY A LOADED GUN.
There was a CWO I knew who hated enlisted personnel, thought every one of them were stupid and didn't know their jobs, and talked down to them. He has been spoken to by other higher ranking officers to lighten up on he enlisted, but since he was an officer he didn't have to. This is just one example, of so many I've seen. On the other hand Ive' seen a lot of PUNK ASS Kids that are just out of control, and there is no discipline that well straighten them out.
If this E2 is being a Punk, I agree , he should be pulled out of formation and perhaps talk to him to see whats bothering him and why he reacts this way. If getting no place with him then serious discipline actions need to be taken
According to this E5 question, it sounds to me that nothing happened (no discipline acct-ion} to the E2 because the E5 may not of been at his best behavior also. I say this is because he's asking this question to see how many people will agree with him, and nobody knows the real story. Also the picture shows that this E5 is not calm and he is amplifying his authority.
I have seen so many E4 and above just let their ranks get to their head. It's like giving a MONkEY A LOADED GUN.
There was a CWO I knew who hated enlisted personnel, thought every one of them were stupid and didn't know their jobs, and talked down to them. He has been spoken to by other higher ranking officers to lighten up on he enlisted, but since he was an officer he didn't have to. This is just one example, of so many I've seen. On the other hand Ive' seen a lot of PUNK ASS Kids that are just out of control, and there is no discipline that well straighten them out.
If this E2 is being a Punk, I agree , he should be pulled out of formation and perhaps talk to him to see whats bothering him and why he reacts this way. If getting no place with him then serious discipline actions need to be taken
According to this E5 question, it sounds to me that nothing happened (no discipline acct-ion} to the E2 because the E5 may not of been at his best behavior also. I say this is because he's asking this question to see how many people will agree with him, and nobody knows the real story. Also the picture shows that this E5 is not calm and he is amplifying his authority.
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Had this happen once at Ft. Hood. Ever looked at a soldier after he dug a 6x6 and planted a paper he wrote stating "I am a member of the United States Army and will follow all orders my superiors give me. Fill it up and then tell him Dig it up --I think you mispelled a word.
Never had any more backtalk in formation.
Never had any more backtalk in formation.
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As we all know there are three sides to a story, and a story inside a story. I'm a Vietnam vet and been in the Navy for 3 years and Air Force for 20 yrs. I've seen so much conflict between high ranks and lower ranks. More than enough lowest rank is always at fault. Its proof right here in this blog. All these higher ranks that are responding to this question immediately are on the E5 side. First of all , being CALMLY too one person may not be calmly to others. How did the E5 calmly speak to his troops. Was he calmly saying " Hey, do you think your bright enough to do this task"? Or was he very diplomatic when he asked this young troop to do this task. The E2 also could be a spoiled little brat.
I have seen so many E4 and above just let their ranks get to their head. It's like giving a MONkEY A LOADED GUN.
There was a CWO I knew who hated enlisted personnel, thought every one of them were stupid and didn't know their jobs, and talked down to them. He has been spoken to by other higher ranking officers to lighten up on he enlisted, but since he was an officer he didn't have to. This is just one example, of so many I've seen. On the other hand Ive' seen a lot of PUNK ASS Kids that are just out of control, and there is no discipline that well straighten them out.
If this E2 is being a Punk, I agree , he should be pulled out of formation and perhaps talk to him to see whats bothering him and why he reacts this way. If getting no place with him then serious discipline actions need to be taken
According to this E5 question, it sounds to me that nothing happened (no discipline acct-ion} to the E2 because the E5 may not of been at his best behavior also. I say this is because he's asking this question to see how many people will agree with him, and nobody knows the real story. Also the picture shows that this E5 is not calm and he is amplifying his authority.
I have seen so many E4 and above just let their ranks get to their head. It's like giving a MONkEY A LOADED GUN.
There was a CWO I knew who hated enlisted personnel, thought every one of them were stupid and didn't know their jobs, and talked down to them. He has been spoken to by other higher ranking officers to lighten up on he enlisted, but since he was an officer he didn't have to. This is just one example, of so many I've seen. On the other hand Ive' seen a lot of PUNK ASS Kids that are just out of control, and there is no discipline that well straighten them out.
If this E2 is being a Punk, I agree , he should be pulled out of formation and perhaps talk to him to see whats bothering him and why he reacts this way. If getting no place with him then serious discipline actions need to be taken
According to this E5 question, it sounds to me that nothing happened (no discipline acct-ion} to the E2 because the E5 may not of been at his best behavior also. I say this is because he's asking this question to see how many people will agree with him, and nobody knows the real story. Also the picture shows that this E5 is not calm and he is amplifying his authority.
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In the Navy this would be a Seaman, Fireman, Airman, Construction or Hospital "Apprentice" rank E-2. The E-5 would be a Petty Officer 2nd class. Not many or very few formations are held where an E-5 would be the Senior Rank but their work center Petty Officer would likely be an the E-5 or E-6 rank. Should this happen, the response needs to be direct and instructive to all present. The junior rank is instructed (Told) that they will not talk in formation without permission. That they have been given a lawful assignment and it is to be followed. There will be no discussion of this order. If you refuse to follow a lawful directive, you will be placed on report. Hold anything else you may say until you meet with me and Chief Petty Officer ---- after you are dismissed. It is that clear ----- Apprentice? The ass chewing and a little "extra military instruction" takes place with the Chief present.
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