Posted on Jul 20, 2023
How would you solve the military recruiting challenges currently facing DOD?
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The recruiting struggles continue across all branches. What is causing it and how should it be addressed?
https://www.wsj.com/story/the-us-army-expects-to-end-up-15000-recruits-short-this-year-b5e9de86
https://www.wsj.com/story/the-us-army-expects-to-end-up-15000-recruits-short-this-year-b5e9de86
Posted in these groups: 
Recruiting
Readiness
79V: Retention and Transition NCO (USAR)
79R: Recruiter
8411: Basic Recruiter
Recruiting Readiness 79V: Retention and Transition NCO (USAR) 79R: Recruiter 8411: Basic Recruiter
Posted 2 y ago
Responses: 436
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So I noticed (interestingly enough) that no Warrants have commented on this thread. So I'll chime in here, since we're opinionated as all hell. Plus we don't have any feelings, so smile on and pile on brothers and sisters!
So first off, I think SFC O'Mally has some great ideas, and one (or all) of them executed correctly could help stem the tide. I joined back in the mid-Eighties partially because I needed a job and the college money, but also because I had family members that had served. Well, the economy is great right now, plenty of jobs, and there are lots of pathways to college (or even success without college) so those aren't big incentives anymore. Also, older family members that have served are becoming increasingly rare.
At the end of my first few hitches (just shy of the critical ten year, career make or break) I got out. It was the mid-Nineties, benefits (college and re-enlistment bonuses) were lousy, and I couldn't get promoted. Adios Uncle Sam!
Fast forward to the early 2000's. 9/11 happened and I got a bump on the head, so I decided to re-up. I wanted to go to Afghanistan and get in the fight. I hadn't been that patriotic since joining during the Cold War, when the USSR was the enemy. And, if you look back, right, wrong, or indifferent, during OEF, OIF, and OIR, none of the Services had any trouble meeting recruiting goals. There were real-world missions, adventures, benefits - all of it! I've never been sorry I came back (OK, maybe a few days in Iraq lol).
Now, I'm not suggesting we go start another misguided war with no exit strategy (far from it!). However, Russia never was anything better than a frenemy, China has joined the list of competitors, and let's not forget North Korea. So I do believe that inspiring a sense of mission would greatly help improve the numbers. We have very real enemies threatening our way of life and we need to show young people how a life of service could help protect it.
So first off, I think SFC O'Mally has some great ideas, and one (or all) of them executed correctly could help stem the tide. I joined back in the mid-Eighties partially because I needed a job and the college money, but also because I had family members that had served. Well, the economy is great right now, plenty of jobs, and there are lots of pathways to college (or even success without college) so those aren't big incentives anymore. Also, older family members that have served are becoming increasingly rare.
At the end of my first few hitches (just shy of the critical ten year, career make or break) I got out. It was the mid-Nineties, benefits (college and re-enlistment bonuses) were lousy, and I couldn't get promoted. Adios Uncle Sam!
Fast forward to the early 2000's. 9/11 happened and I got a bump on the head, so I decided to re-up. I wanted to go to Afghanistan and get in the fight. I hadn't been that patriotic since joining during the Cold War, when the USSR was the enemy. And, if you look back, right, wrong, or indifferent, during OEF, OIF, and OIR, none of the Services had any trouble meeting recruiting goals. There were real-world missions, adventures, benefits - all of it! I've never been sorry I came back (OK, maybe a few days in Iraq lol).
Now, I'm not suggesting we go start another misguided war with no exit strategy (far from it!). However, Russia never was anything better than a frenemy, China has joined the list of competitors, and let's not forget North Korea. So I do believe that inspiring a sense of mission would greatly help improve the numbers. We have very real enemies threatening our way of life and we need to show young people how a life of service could help protect it.
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Back to basics. Go and ask the active force "why did you join?" Then come up with a recruiting strategy that targets those motivators. There's a lot to learn when we listen to the consumers, because at the end what a recruiter sells is a personalized future. But first, you need to know who's buying. Been there, done that.
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Stop teachng gang members to use weapons, raise recurring standards and pay.
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Win wars. How? Congressional members in office during a lost military conflict are banned from running for Congress. General Officers are discharged for the same and lose their retirement. This will fix retention. Anyone who has a problem with this didn't die in a lost conflict.
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SPC Athelred Davis
SFC (Join to see) You don’t understand mitigating risk by holding leadership accountable or incentivizing politicians to refrain from involving themselves in military decisions? They’ll either refrain from starting conflicts or if unavoidable make better decisions on what is necessary to achieve victory. Unless your missing the point that few people want to waste the time in a fruitless endeavor. If the latter is what you’re struggling with…I doubt any explanation will suffice.
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SPC Athelred Davis
SFC (Verify To See) - Amendments have happened, there will be more. You seemed resigned to just giving up. Am I sure this is a way to stop politics from interfering in what is necessary to win a conflict? Yes. We went from stuffing guys into ball turrets on aircraft as being entirely acceptable, to not being able to accept losses at all. We have adopted this silly notion that the enemy can do whatever they want, but us playing by the rules somehow makes the situation better and that ended with civilians we disarmed clinging to the side of aircraft.
"A statement from U.S. ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad called the enactment of the constitution a 'turning point for the Afghan nation. We are witness to a major milestone in putting behind the era of the rule of the gun in Afghanistan,' it said. Khalilzad said the United States would stand by Afghanistan as it put the constitution into practice and prepared for the presidential and parliamentary elections." - CNN January 26, 2004
We committed to DDR in Afghanistan, effectively disarming the population requiring either a security force that would defend the new government or some semblance of a military coalition. We have about 600 military bases around the world, but couldn't put one in Afghanistan for some reason. We ignored the Afghanistan MOI either failing to issue weapon permits or charging $10K USD per permit, which is to say only certain groups could afford that. We permitted the Taliban to exist, and then doubled down on that by legitimizing them when we permitted them to have a say in diplomacy. Then there's the ridiculous ROEs, and the shoddy upstream of programs like the JEFF program and CEXC failing to produce PELs. Never mind the futility in reconstruction efforts laden with corruption, waste....resources which could have been used to secure the government in place. What do you think is going to stop things like that, how do you fix that? What, maybe we can entice people to enlist with college money....that's the solution? Give me a break. Where the rubber meets the road is big k little c, that's what gets shit done, not some noodle that has hopes to make money working some cushy job as a cubicle rat. I see people babbling about woke, and that drivel, but where does it come from, who is responsible for that, how does that translate to the battlespace and if indeed it fails to deliver results, proven results from passed military operations....who is ultimately held accountable for what is likely weakening our defense mentality? How do you stop that? You don't know....you're over there throwing your hands up because you probably don't even see the real problems with our military.
"A statement from U.S. ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad called the enactment of the constitution a 'turning point for the Afghan nation. We are witness to a major milestone in putting behind the era of the rule of the gun in Afghanistan,' it said. Khalilzad said the United States would stand by Afghanistan as it put the constitution into practice and prepared for the presidential and parliamentary elections." - CNN January 26, 2004
We committed to DDR in Afghanistan, effectively disarming the population requiring either a security force that would defend the new government or some semblance of a military coalition. We have about 600 military bases around the world, but couldn't put one in Afghanistan for some reason. We ignored the Afghanistan MOI either failing to issue weapon permits or charging $10K USD per permit, which is to say only certain groups could afford that. We permitted the Taliban to exist, and then doubled down on that by legitimizing them when we permitted them to have a say in diplomacy. Then there's the ridiculous ROEs, and the shoddy upstream of programs like the JEFF program and CEXC failing to produce PELs. Never mind the futility in reconstruction efforts laden with corruption, waste....resources which could have been used to secure the government in place. What do you think is going to stop things like that, how do you fix that? What, maybe we can entice people to enlist with college money....that's the solution? Give me a break. Where the rubber meets the road is big k little c, that's what gets shit done, not some noodle that has hopes to make money working some cushy job as a cubicle rat. I see people babbling about woke, and that drivel, but where does it come from, who is responsible for that, how does that translate to the battlespace and if indeed it fails to deliver results, proven results from passed military operations....who is ultimately held accountable for what is likely weakening our defense mentality? How do you stop that? You don't know....you're over there throwing your hands up because you probably don't even see the real problems with our military.
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The military doesn’t pay enough, recruiters are expected to get high numbers but the military would rather offer new recruits high incentives rather than retain the ones currently serving. A lot of the new generation kids are the ones that are entitled and lack the discipline to actually listen to their chain of command. When I went through boot camp, more people dropped out than graduated. If we can’t keep the ones that are invested in serving, that’s the real problem. Not necessarily recruiting new people. If you have guys and girls serving for 5 years, don’t you think it’s important to incentivize them to serve a full 20? There’s tons of money already invested in them as it is, now you’d rather worry about investing that new money in new recruits.
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If they want student debt forgiveness, let them serve honorably for six years.
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SSgt Milo Ratbottom
I also like the idea of giving them small business startup funds and counseling, if they don't want educational benefits.
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decommission the old dreadnoughts.... what needs to happen is obvious.... its who is in the way, that is the issue....
"do you want to be a bad ass? then join us"... is the only acceptable message.. and it will work.... redefine the enemy as a "culture of weakness".... use chinese and russian recruiting posters.... seeing that stuff always fires up the good ones...... and our boys can beat their boys at their own games..... so start there.... "look what the chinese are up to... YOU gonna stand for that?"
its the folks pushing soft stances on china............
"do you want to be a bad ass? then join us"... is the only acceptable message.. and it will work.... redefine the enemy as a "culture of weakness".... use chinese and russian recruiting posters.... seeing that stuff always fires up the good ones...... and our boys can beat their boys at their own games..... so start there.... "look what the chinese are up to... YOU gonna stand for that?"
its the folks pushing soft stances on china............
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SPC Barry Bartelt II
jumped around a bit there..... we need to advertise being a tough group...
we could redefine the enemy as a culture of weakness... or course we know who the enemies are externally but we have been significantly infiltrated here.... to fail to acknowledge that seems silly.... to help reverse some damage..... how did the infiltration affect you? has this cultural push towards marxist, society weakening, ideology affected your life or your familys or friends?
one thing that motivates me is seeing what my opponent considers inspirational....
put together some accurate factual footage of whatever the chinese are up to in wuhan or the uyghurs.... rebranding as a bad ass organization once again..... and showing the young men and women what they are fighting for......
tried to fill iin the gaps for you.
we could redefine the enemy as a culture of weakness... or course we know who the enemies are externally but we have been significantly infiltrated here.... to fail to acknowledge that seems silly.... to help reverse some damage..... how did the infiltration affect you? has this cultural push towards marxist, society weakening, ideology affected your life or your familys or friends?
one thing that motivates me is seeing what my opponent considers inspirational....
put together some accurate factual footage of whatever the chinese are up to in wuhan or the uyghurs.... rebranding as a bad ass organization once again..... and showing the young men and women what they are fighting for......
tried to fill iin the gaps for you.
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SPC Barry Bartelt II
SFC Kelly Fuerhoff - no but thank you for reading the words...
i guess i wrote those words thinking ppl would be able to interpret them...
i was just kind of throwing out ideas there.... rereading it i can see how i lost some ppl.... but it also still makes sense in the context of current events.....
the infiltration is pretty obvious culturally. the chinese government has invested time effort and apparently money, to influence the united states culturally. and it has absolutely infiltrated the military, as evidenced by low recruiting numbers and drag shows in military settings.
the marxist push is also pretty apparent.
the culture of weakness is being pushed across many different platforms and subjects.... its a clear attempt to undermine the united states from within....
if we want ppl to join the service.... it needs to be marketed to the right group..... young ,generally male, generally patriotic, generally adventure seeking.... at the moment we seem to be more concerned with inclusion when we should be advertising patriotism and the bad ass nature of the United States Military.
have you noticed a culture war going on? some in government seem compromised?
i guess i wrote those words thinking ppl would be able to interpret them...
i was just kind of throwing out ideas there.... rereading it i can see how i lost some ppl.... but it also still makes sense in the context of current events.....
the infiltration is pretty obvious culturally. the chinese government has invested time effort and apparently money, to influence the united states culturally. and it has absolutely infiltrated the military, as evidenced by low recruiting numbers and drag shows in military settings.
the marxist push is also pretty apparent.
the culture of weakness is being pushed across many different platforms and subjects.... its a clear attempt to undermine the united states from within....
if we want ppl to join the service.... it needs to be marketed to the right group..... young ,generally male, generally patriotic, generally adventure seeking.... at the moment we seem to be more concerned with inclusion when we should be advertising patriotism and the bad ass nature of the United States Military.
have you noticed a culture war going on? some in government seem compromised?
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SPC Barry Bartelt II
SFC Kelly Fuerhoff - hmmm this is an interesting moment here
absolutely i support women serving.... i support womens suffrage, and all of feminism until the third wave hit....
and i was pointing out that the target audience for the military IS males.... not all i care about... those were your words.... i simply stated the fact that, to increase military recruiting most easily, i would target males.. just looking for success.....
i understand you didnt join for adventure, and job skills are a HUGE part of the military "deal".... but those jobs are known.... everybody knows they are out there for the taking... and still ppl arent joining..... it is bc the mission has been muddied by all this infiltrationing..... and id even cite your pushback and highly gender sensitive frame of reference as a sign of the ongoing psyop being run by our foes....
please dont take offense... the military is mostly male and will most likely continue to be mostly male as long as there are genders of any sort..... ignoring that fact and gearing our fighting force to inclusivity rather than EXCLUSIVITY is part of the problem....
how do you read the disparity between military recruitment in china and russia as juxtaposed against ours? in those militaries they are heavy on action... adventure... calling to duty... those two militaries are gearing up for war..... we are worried about inclusivity...
its by design.......
absolutely i support women serving.... i support womens suffrage, and all of feminism until the third wave hit....
and i was pointing out that the target audience for the military IS males.... not all i care about... those were your words.... i simply stated the fact that, to increase military recruiting most easily, i would target males.. just looking for success.....
i understand you didnt join for adventure, and job skills are a HUGE part of the military "deal".... but those jobs are known.... everybody knows they are out there for the taking... and still ppl arent joining..... it is bc the mission has been muddied by all this infiltrationing..... and id even cite your pushback and highly gender sensitive frame of reference as a sign of the ongoing psyop being run by our foes....
please dont take offense... the military is mostly male and will most likely continue to be mostly male as long as there are genders of any sort..... ignoring that fact and gearing our fighting force to inclusivity rather than EXCLUSIVITY is part of the problem....
how do you read the disparity between military recruitment in china and russia as juxtaposed against ours? in those militaries they are heavy on action... adventure... calling to duty... those two militaries are gearing up for war..... we are worried about inclusivity...
its by design.......
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Weak leadership doesn’t bring forth people to serve the country, the best way I can see is to give signing bonuses, maybe guarantee E-2 out of boot camp, possibly add higher education incentives, it wouldn’t hurt to start up a patriotic ad campaign showing the youth of America the benefits they would receive for serving but it’s going to be a up hill battle until we get strong leadership back in the higher offices, all our youth is seeing is America being put down by other Americans I personally don’t blame them for keeping their distance from serving I wouldn’t want to serve under this administration! And using trans people to promote the branches of service isn’t helping.
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Increase the pay, especially for E-4 and below. Pay for their moves, don’t keep them so poor they qualify for food stamps. That is ABSOLUTELY ABSURD to pay any military member so little they qualify for food stamps. Promote GI BILL as an alternative to huge debt in student loans and give better incentives for retaining those already trained. Be fair and treat all equally no natter what but DON’T GO OVER THE TOP TO NOT HURT FEELINGS. TREAT and RESPECT EVERYONE AS AN EQUAL ADULT and promote family friendly atmosphere through policies and actions.
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SSgt Richard Austin
Don’t be too touchy feely and cowtow to every individual political advocacy group on the planet TREAT EVERYONE EQUALLY and LIKE GROWN ADULTS and make pseudo offended feelings as a non issue. Train everyone how to grow up and act like a mature adult and not be mentally disabled by hurt feelings and develop a mentally tough attitude.
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Eliminate the teachers union so the kids learn that America is a great and flawed country worth fighting for.
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