Posted on Jun 12, 2019
I am being told to go to PT by the command on only 4-5 hours of sleep. As a junior enlisted, how do I solve this problem?
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We have a new 1SG and new commander. The 1SG noticed one day that only 5 people in the whole company showed up to PT. Now he put out to all the platoon Sergeants that everyone must show up to PT at either the 0530 formation or the 1600 formation.
However, my section is the only one in the hospital that has a 1600-0000 shift. I am being told by my first line that the 1SG says that I have to be at the morning formation, no exceptions.
I don’t want to sound like I’m whining but at the same time it’s unfortunate that I have to explain to myself as to why this isn’t right.
As a junior enlisted I do feel stuck.
How do I bring this issue up and solve this effectively and professionally?
Also: Do you know of any Army Regulations that can support anything?
However, my section is the only one in the hospital that has a 1600-0000 shift. I am being told by my first line that the 1SG says that I have to be at the morning formation, no exceptions.
I don’t want to sound like I’m whining but at the same time it’s unfortunate that I have to explain to myself as to why this isn’t right.
As a junior enlisted I do feel stuck.
How do I bring this issue up and solve this effectively and professionally?
Also: Do you know of any Army Regulations that can support anything?
Company Commander
Physical Training
Army Regulations
Policy
Edited 6 y ago
Posted 6 y ago
Responses: 1688
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Your best option is to learn your installations policies. Fort Carson and 4th ID i had a similar situation happen to me well 4ID policy stated that no formations were to be held in garrison before 0630. Hope you were able to get the help you needed. But you can never go wrong with going to IG and at least asking questions. There are open door policies all the way up the chain of command.
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I was wondering if you went to combat, what Army regulations could you site to keep the enemy from cutting your head off? Embrace the Suck!!!!!!!
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CMSgt John Owens
I don't agree that Garrison life needs to suck as much as Combat.. Garrison is the time to have breaks and get rest.. She has options, they include minimum 5 hrs sleep right after shift, then pt, then do whatever or go back to sleep till she has to get up for work.. her choice..
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BTW, how long have you been in and how did you make it through bootcamp? I was a hospital man until 1966 when I went to FMF school and became a Marine Corpsman. I spent a year in VietNam with the 1st Marine Division, then I was stationed with the 2nd Marines until I got out. I am sorry you can't do PT because of lack of sleep, so as a Marine I do not understand the problem. I am sure that your Sargent will inspire you to "Be all you can be".
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Get up, go to PT then go back to bed, or go to bed AFTER PT. I know when I was in and had the late shift, I didn't go home or to my rack and go to bed right after shift. I stayed up to wind down, just like those on day shift did. When getting off at 0000, bed time for me was usually around 0300 or 0400, and I am pretty sure it is for you as well. So, change your sleep patterns so you go to bed after PT which will still give you ample time (7-8 hours) to sleep before reporting for your duty shift.
For those who are concerned about him being sleep deprived....he isn't complaining about going to work without sleep...just going to PT with "not enough sleep". I wonder what he is doing for the 8 hours or so AFTER PT. And I doubt very much that he is going to bed as soon as he gets off duty, I knew very few, if any, personnel who went directly to the rack after getting off work.....unless they partied all night the night before shift, which I think most of us did at one time or another.
Whether a JR enlisted or not, You are Stuck, deal with it. You joined the military not a civilian club or fraternity. If you are ever deployed in combat, as many have mentioned, you would be glad to have even a couple of hours between "shifts".
For those who are concerned about him being sleep deprived....he isn't complaining about going to work without sleep...just going to PT with "not enough sleep". I wonder what he is doing for the 8 hours or so AFTER PT. And I doubt very much that he is going to bed as soon as he gets off duty, I knew very few, if any, personnel who went directly to the rack after getting off work.....unless they partied all night the night before shift, which I think most of us did at one time or another.
Whether a JR enlisted or not, You are Stuck, deal with it. You joined the military not a civilian club or fraternity. If you are ever deployed in combat, as many have mentioned, you would be glad to have even a couple of hours between "shifts".
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Man there sure are a bunch of clowns on this page. First of all, functioning on a maximum of 6 hours of sleep is medically unhealthy, which a leader in a hospital should know. ("I function on way less sleep and do just fine" -stop it. There are scientific studies on this, and your anomalous, anecdotal data is unhelpful.)
Second, comparing a deployed schedule to that of in-garrison work days is nonsense. There's a reason you don't spend a career deployed. When you're in garrison, you have more to take care of than work duties. Family, household responsibilities, simply needing to disconnect from military life for a few hours are all critical components of having a healthy force. I would argue just as important as PT.
Finally, for all of you saying, "I had it worse in my day," you're part of the problem. We've had a history of not caring for our service members' mental health, and look where that has gotten us. Quit acting like everything has always worked perfectly and try to affect some positive change every once in a while.
OP: I doubt very much that your 1st Sgt is out to make your life unbearable. Odds are that he identified a problem, and found the quickest fit for the it. He probably isn't aware of how this is affecting your shift, and needs to be educated. Your responsibility in supporting your leaders is to show them when they are making a decision that negatively impacts their troops. You do this respectfully, and by using your chain of command. If the personnel above you will not address your concerns, when laid out in a respectful manner, you have other avenues, like the line above them in the CoC, going directly to your shirt, or, in extreme cases, the IG. Also, I find that it helps to present the problem in terms of a problem for the Army, not a personal issue ("Not getting enough sleep will prevent me from being effective at my job in the medical field, possibly leading to injuries, even death of other soldiers" vs "I'm sleepy and want a nap,") and to come ready with a proposed solution ("my shift could do a unified PT session as a shift at 1430, x-days per week, led by so-and-so.")
Again, for those of you trying to shut down the OP, try asking yourself if you'd rather get blood drawn or have a procedure done on you by someone sleep-deprived, or well rested.
Second, comparing a deployed schedule to that of in-garrison work days is nonsense. There's a reason you don't spend a career deployed. When you're in garrison, you have more to take care of than work duties. Family, household responsibilities, simply needing to disconnect from military life for a few hours are all critical components of having a healthy force. I would argue just as important as PT.
Finally, for all of you saying, "I had it worse in my day," you're part of the problem. We've had a history of not caring for our service members' mental health, and look where that has gotten us. Quit acting like everything has always worked perfectly and try to affect some positive change every once in a while.
OP: I doubt very much that your 1st Sgt is out to make your life unbearable. Odds are that he identified a problem, and found the quickest fit for the it. He probably isn't aware of how this is affecting your shift, and needs to be educated. Your responsibility in supporting your leaders is to show them when they are making a decision that negatively impacts their troops. You do this respectfully, and by using your chain of command. If the personnel above you will not address your concerns, when laid out in a respectful manner, you have other avenues, like the line above them in the CoC, going directly to your shirt, or, in extreme cases, the IG. Also, I find that it helps to present the problem in terms of a problem for the Army, not a personal issue ("Not getting enough sleep will prevent me from being effective at my job in the medical field, possibly leading to injuries, even death of other soldiers" vs "I'm sleepy and want a nap,") and to come ready with a proposed solution ("my shift could do a unified PT session as a shift at 1430, x-days per week, led by so-and-so.")
Again, for those of you trying to shut down the OP, try asking yourself if you'd rather get blood drawn or have a procedure done on you by someone sleep-deprived, or well rested.
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CMSgt John Owens
Army is alot different.. I do not agree with the Reg on only having to have 4 hrs of sleep a day.. AF also had people on shift work, we did things incorrectly INO also.. like switching shifts every 6 or 8 weeks, studies show it take 6 weeks for your body to adjust to a shift. So in our wisdom, change shifts every 5 weeks, because the O's did not want to be on nights for any longer than they had to be.. RPA squadrons are working approx. 13 hr shifts for 4 shifts then off 3 days, then working 13 hr days for 3 shifts then off 2 days.. this is the norm, everyday, for every year.. AF has gone down the tubes, toward the Army doings... Hell, have one RPA squadron in AFSOC working in NW Florida, working 12 hr shifts, 6 days a week, just because when they PCS to the other AFSOC RPA squadron they will be acclimated, which is Bullshit too. Hell, I loved the Active duty approaches, because we as a Reserve Unit, got some really Great people, and no training bill, We used less manpower and had more time off in the Reserve Units flying the same amount of the 24/7 missions..
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CMSgt John Owens
This is some of the problems in Service. You don't want opinions from the younger kids, she may can come up with a better plan, use the chain of command, and have a solution. Never knock a Junior rank down and just say shut up and go...Oh that is right, you are a Marine and all you do is what is ordered, In the other services we learn to think.
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