Posted on Jun 12, 2019
I am being told to go to PT by the command on only 4-5 hours of sleep. As a junior enlisted, how do I solve this problem?
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We have a new 1SG and new commander. The 1SG noticed one day that only 5 people in the whole company showed up to PT. Now he put out to all the platoon Sergeants that everyone must show up to PT at either the 0530 formation or the 1600 formation.
However, my section is the only one in the hospital that has a 1600-0000 shift. I am being told by my first line that the 1SG says that I have to be at the morning formation, no exceptions.
I don’t want to sound like I’m whining but at the same time it’s unfortunate that I have to explain to myself as to why this isn’t right.
As a junior enlisted I do feel stuck.
How do I bring this issue up and solve this effectively and professionally?
Also: Do you know of any Army Regulations that can support anything?
However, my section is the only one in the hospital that has a 1600-0000 shift. I am being told by my first line that the 1SG says that I have to be at the morning formation, no exceptions.
I don’t want to sound like I’m whining but at the same time it’s unfortunate that I have to explain to myself as to why this isn’t right.
As a junior enlisted I do feel stuck.
How do I bring this issue up and solve this effectively and professionally?
Also: Do you know of any Army Regulations that can support anything?
Company Commander
Physical Training
Army Regulations
Policy
Edited 6 y ago
Posted 6 y ago
Responses: 1688
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I can remember coming home from a club just in time to change into PT uniform and go to PT. We held each other up and maybe one or two puked but we made it through. If you can't work on only four to five hours of sleep, you may want to pick up a new career. If you get deployed you will get less sleep than that. Plus you have two different time to go. I believe command is being very accommodating. You may need to do some time management.
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SPC Dennis Morey
I remember chasing down a bus in downtown Waikiki to get back to Schofield Barracks just to make it for PT.
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SGT Lorenzo Nieto
Back in my time 1967 you went to PT even if you had one leg, if you tripped and fell while running you better not stop and help.
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SPC Darrell Woodard
No He does not have 2 different times to go. And it is not because he is out partying the night before. And it is not a one time thing but will be every day for him. He works from 1600 to midnight so the afternoon (1600) PT is out for him. He gets to bed about 0100 and then has to be at PT at 0530. So only 4 hours sleep max. I don't think he is being a buttercup. Sometimes the different parts of the army do not work together to make life reasonable. If his unit has a 1600-0000 work shift then they should offer those soldiers an alternative PT time like 0800 or 1000. Or if the soldier is doing well on his PT tests then let him do PT on his own.
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854
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FM 6-22.5 and FM 22-51 Are good reference points to start.
However, I’d ask, how are you only getting 4-5 hours sleep? If you work 1600-0000, and now the 1SG makes a 0530 PT sesh mandatory, there’s plenty of time for sleep. It seems as though you have a time management issue with a now inconvenient PT formation.
Alter your pattern to adjust working the night shift. For example.
1430: wake up, personal hygiene
1500: first meal
1600: work starts
0000: work ends
0000-0530: personal time (to include naps if you want)
0530-0730: PT
0730-0830: last meal, personal hygiene
0830-1430: sleep
I get it. It sucks. It might not be the best leadership decision, but it’s not an illegal leadership decision. However professional your approach might be, the most effective approach (for everyone) is to just show up, sound off like Forrest Gump in basic training, and after the 1SG feels like his point has been made, things will go back to normal.
Best of luck
However, I’d ask, how are you only getting 4-5 hours sleep? If you work 1600-0000, and now the 1SG makes a 0530 PT sesh mandatory, there’s plenty of time for sleep. It seems as though you have a time management issue with a now inconvenient PT formation.
Alter your pattern to adjust working the night shift. For example.
1430: wake up, personal hygiene
1500: first meal
1600: work starts
0000: work ends
0000-0530: personal time (to include naps if you want)
0530-0730: PT
0730-0830: last meal, personal hygiene
0830-1430: sleep
I get it. It sucks. It might not be the best leadership decision, but it’s not an illegal leadership decision. However professional your approach might be, the most effective approach (for everyone) is to just show up, sound off like Forrest Gump in basic training, and after the 1SG feels like his point has been made, things will go back to normal.
Best of luck
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SPC Matt Ovaska
A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney -I got out to find out the VA was not going to pay for my education on the GI Bill and Nam vets were not hired. So I boast about my self employment. I only have to work half the time and which 12 hrs. I work is up to me.
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
SPC Matt Ovaska - ...
Here's a Notice For ALL VETS, And The ONLY People I've Located Which DO Something For Us VETS :.... If You're Having ANY Issues With The VA Where You Live, Contact These Folks & Get Some Action:
WHITE HOUSE VA HOT LINE at [login to see] .SE VA, WASHINGTON D.C.. :
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~AND GOOD TO KNOW:~~~~~~~~~~~
..Subject: Is A Military Veteran Entitled To Care And Supplies, Through ANY Va Facility, Regardless Of Where He Resides?
~~ YES, A MILITARY VETERAN CAN RECEIVE MEDICAL PRODUCTS From OUT-OF-STATE VA FACILITIES, EVEN IF THEY ARE NOT LIVING THERE.~~~
However, the veteran must be eligible for VA care without needing to enroll or be enrolled in VA health care 1. The eligibility for community care is dependent upon a veteran’s individual health care needs or circumstances 1. In most cases, veterans must receive approval from VA prior to obtaining care from a community provider 1. VA staff members generally make all eligibility determinations 1. Please note that VA is not authorized to ship medications or medical/surgical supply items outside of the U.S. or its territories 2. If you’re a veteran who lives overseas, you remain entitled to the benefits and services you earned through your military service. Most VA benefits are payable regardless of your place of residence or nationality 3. If you’re moving outside the U.S., you’ll need to sign up for the Foreign Medical Program. Through this program, VA will pay for certain needed health care services received in foreign countries to treat a service-connected disability or a disability that’s making a service-connected condition worse 4.
I hope this helps!
Here's a Notice For ALL VETS, And The ONLY People I've Located Which DO Something For Us VETS :.... If You're Having ANY Issues With The VA Where You Live, Contact These Folks & Get Some Action:
WHITE HOUSE VA HOT LINE at [login to see] .SE VA, WASHINGTON D.C.. :
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~AND GOOD TO KNOW:~~~~~~~~~~~
..Subject: Is A Military Veteran Entitled To Care And Supplies, Through ANY Va Facility, Regardless Of Where He Resides?
~~ YES, A MILITARY VETERAN CAN RECEIVE MEDICAL PRODUCTS From OUT-OF-STATE VA FACILITIES, EVEN IF THEY ARE NOT LIVING THERE.~~~
However, the veteran must be eligible for VA care without needing to enroll or be enrolled in VA health care 1. The eligibility for community care is dependent upon a veteran’s individual health care needs or circumstances 1. In most cases, veterans must receive approval from VA prior to obtaining care from a community provider 1. VA staff members generally make all eligibility determinations 1. Please note that VA is not authorized to ship medications or medical/surgical supply items outside of the U.S. or its territories 2. If you’re a veteran who lives overseas, you remain entitled to the benefits and services you earned through your military service. Most VA benefits are payable regardless of your place of residence or nationality 3. If you’re moving outside the U.S., you’ll need to sign up for the Foreign Medical Program. Through this program, VA will pay for certain needed health care services received in foreign countries to treat a service-connected disability or a disability that’s making a service-connected condition worse 4.
I hope this helps!
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SSG Rob Lawrence
TSgt Beth Peterson Got to somewhat disagree with you assessment. One of the things I was taught in leadership classes was to involve the people in your command regarding the plans and ideas that run a unit. The final decision of course must rest with the leadership. I also realize it’s not possible to get different opinions and ideas. If there is a dangerous or immediate need, then leadership gives the orders and people follow the orders. Regarding other decisions that don’t need immediate reactions, the commands in which I served that got soldiers involved from the top to the bottom regarding SOP and trading, without exception had high moral. When a chance to bring something to the table, soldiers tend to have higher morale when they are invested in the decision. All this being, I do not argue that the final decision always rests with the commanding office.
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SGT Lorenzo Nieto
While in viet nam I was lucky I got 4hours of sleep stop complaining do your job the best you can
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Some of you are going to have your ego hurt by what I am writing, but read this this all the way through and think long and hard on this before you hit that dislike/vote down button.
I have read some of the most bizarre, asinine, dare I say fool hardy comments, I have ever seen on Rally Point on this thread. Leaders, get a fracking clue, we are talking about soldiers who work in hospitals, not CQ, not Duty NCO, but soldiers who are treating YOUR soldiers! Would you want a civilian hospital to do the same thing as your loved one is laying in the ICU, NICU, or ER? How would you feel if you knew the staff only got 4-5 hours of sleep for weeks to months on end, and now your child is in their care? Feel good about yourself now? Feel like this is the way it should be for those who work these shifts? Feel like their soldier who got medevacked in deserves the best care we can give them, or some sub-standard level of care because we need to have full PT formations?
If you have never worked in health care, never had to work second or third shifts for prolonged time periods, had to work a person dying in front of you, well I got news for you: you haven't a clue! Ever watch a cardiac monitor for hours on end, try doing that in a sleep deprived environment, see how well you work out, or how well you like telling the survivors that their loved one passed away last night. With all the shortages in medical staff in the civilian world you don't think this kid is going to walk when his/her time is up? This is a case of Ego's, not leadership, or a lack of it. " I need to see a big unit in front of me." Hey Top, you run a hospital, that kid in ICU with the traumatic brain injury is far more important then your sniveling PT formation. That Kid in ICU is some ones loved one, if your second and third shift people are passing their PT tests lay off, or you will lose them, and won't be able to replace them, then you have bigger problems.
I have read some of the most bizarre, asinine, dare I say fool hardy comments, I have ever seen on Rally Point on this thread. Leaders, get a fracking clue, we are talking about soldiers who work in hospitals, not CQ, not Duty NCO, but soldiers who are treating YOUR soldiers! Would you want a civilian hospital to do the same thing as your loved one is laying in the ICU, NICU, or ER? How would you feel if you knew the staff only got 4-5 hours of sleep for weeks to months on end, and now your child is in their care? Feel good about yourself now? Feel like this is the way it should be for those who work these shifts? Feel like their soldier who got medevacked in deserves the best care we can give them, or some sub-standard level of care because we need to have full PT formations?
If you have never worked in health care, never had to work second or third shifts for prolonged time periods, had to work a person dying in front of you, well I got news for you: you haven't a clue! Ever watch a cardiac monitor for hours on end, try doing that in a sleep deprived environment, see how well you work out, or how well you like telling the survivors that their loved one passed away last night. With all the shortages in medical staff in the civilian world you don't think this kid is going to walk when his/her time is up? This is a case of Ego's, not leadership, or a lack of it. " I need to see a big unit in front of me." Hey Top, you run a hospital, that kid in ICU with the traumatic brain injury is far more important then your sniveling PT formation. That Kid in ICU is some ones loved one, if your second and third shift people are passing their PT tests lay off, or you will lose them, and won't be able to replace them, then you have bigger problems.
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SSG Peter Kriz
Man up, you want some fat puke working on your loved one, a lazy one? Or… a hard charging stud ready to get some… pussification of America
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SPC West Coleman
Med school interns get by on almost no sleep and constantly have people’s lives in their hands.
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SGT Robert Reid
I was an MP working midnight shift. It was not anything they didn’t ask us to do. We embraced the suck. PT 0600 after mids, 1500 after days. And a lot of us chose to do it before swings. Roughly around 1000-1100. It is still a requirement being in the army.
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