Posted on Jun 12, 2019
I am being told to go to PT by the command on only 4-5 hours of sleep. As a junior enlisted, how do I solve this problem?
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We have a new 1SG and new commander. The 1SG noticed one day that only 5 people in the whole company showed up to PT. Now he put out to all the platoon Sergeants that everyone must show up to PT at either the 0530 formation or the 1600 formation.
However, my section is the only one in the hospital that has a 1600-0000 shift. I am being told by my first line that the 1SG says that I have to be at the morning formation, no exceptions.
I don’t want to sound like I’m whining but at the same time it’s unfortunate that I have to explain to myself as to why this isn’t right.
As a junior enlisted I do feel stuck.
How do I bring this issue up and solve this effectively and professionally?
Also: Do you know of any Army Regulations that can support anything?
However, my section is the only one in the hospital that has a 1600-0000 shift. I am being told by my first line that the 1SG says that I have to be at the morning formation, no exceptions.
I don’t want to sound like I’m whining but at the same time it’s unfortunate that I have to explain to myself as to why this isn’t right.
As a junior enlisted I do feel stuck.
How do I bring this issue up and solve this effectively and professionally?
Also: Do you know of any Army Regulations that can support anything?
Company Commander
Physical Training
Policy
Army Regulations
Edited 4 y ago
Posted 4 y ago
Responses: 1542
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I can remember coming home from a club just in time to change into PT uniform and go to PT. We held each other up and maybe one or two puked but we made it through. If you can't work on only four to five hours of sleep, you may want to pick up a new career. If you get deployed you will get less sleep than that. Plus you have two different time to go. I believe command is being very accommodating. You may need to do some time management.
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SSG Deron Santiny
PO2 (Join to see) - I can tell you that there is a difference between Navy PT and Army PT. You may think it's toxic leadership but, that is the type of thinking that gets people killed in combat. If you aren't physically or mentally prepared for combat, people will either die or be injured, that is a fact. Yeah going to the club was a personal choice but so was joining the military. The problem today is that weakness is being instilled by giving a choice between times, we didn't have choices in the past, you did it whether you liked it or not. You have the luxury of being out to sea or on a base somewhere that you don't ever have to look the enemy in the face and personally, i'd prefer to have someone who isn't crying about only a few hours of sleep instead of just sucking it up and driving on covering my ass when the shit hits the fan. As a Combat Veteran, I can tell you that we went with little to know sleep more often than not and we knew it was like it or not it was what it was. No disrespect but if he can't handle working with only a few hours of sleep, maybe he should have joined another branch besides the Army.
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SSgt Michael Bowen
Having served in both the Marines and Army I can assure you sleep was not in my top 5 priorities 1. mission 2. mission readiness 3.troops 4. Family 5.self so I could take care of. The first 4 . Sleep came only after the others were fully cared for . Manage your time sleep when you have the time not because you want to and you will get more sleep
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FM 6-22.5 and FM 22-51 Are good reference points to start.
However, I’d ask, how are you only getting 4-5 hours sleep? If you work 1600-0000, and now the 1SG makes a 0530 PT sesh mandatory, there’s plenty of time for sleep. It seems as though you have a time management issue with a now inconvenient PT formation.
Alter your pattern to adjust working the night shift. For example.
1430: wake up, personal hygiene
1500: first meal
1600: work starts
0000: work ends
0000-0530: personal time (to include naps if you want)
0530-0730: PT
0730-0830: last meal, personal hygiene
0830-1430: sleep
I get it. It sucks. It might not be the best leadership decision, but it’s not an illegal leadership decision. However professional your approach might be, the most effective approach (for everyone) is to just show up, sound off like Forrest Gump in basic training, and after the 1SG feels like his point has been made, things will go back to normal.
Best of luck
However, I’d ask, how are you only getting 4-5 hours sleep? If you work 1600-0000, and now the 1SG makes a 0530 PT sesh mandatory, there’s plenty of time for sleep. It seems as though you have a time management issue with a now inconvenient PT formation.
Alter your pattern to adjust working the night shift. For example.
1430: wake up, personal hygiene
1500: first meal
1600: work starts
0000: work ends
0000-0530: personal time (to include naps if you want)
0530-0730: PT
0730-0830: last meal, personal hygiene
0830-1430: sleep
I get it. It sucks. It might not be the best leadership decision, but it’s not an illegal leadership decision. However professional your approach might be, the most effective approach (for everyone) is to just show up, sound off like Forrest Gump in basic training, and after the 1SG feels like his point has been made, things will go back to normal.
Best of luck
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PFC Angela Van Horn
A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney - Ain't that the truth. At least OP is/was getting more than about an hour of sleep a night. I personally had to pull some crazy shit to get every mission's equipment moving into country on the prescribed timetable... for roughly a week, I literally lived at the company and slept on a cot next to my locker. Only got to hit up the barracks once that entire time during lunch sometime midweek to grab a change of clothes and my spare set of work gloves because smelling like burnt hydraulic fluid for the back half of the week was NOT an option.
TL;DR- The mission comes first, and by god it absolutely must continue no matter what
TL;DR- The mission comes first, and by god it absolutely must continue no matter what
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SGT Greg Weaver
A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney - You read it backward. Their shift is 1600-0000. Which means he either stays up to 0500 to head off to PT, or only gets 4-5 hours (at best) of sleep per night.
Hell, I staggered in plenty of mornings to go do a lake run without having slept the night before, but this is regular and recurring, not a short-term situation. What *should* be done is that his section either performs 1330-1430 PT, or 0030-0130 PT, if you want to match up to the normal "Do PT, shower, grab breakfast, go on duty" day.
This isn't "staying up to 0300 dry-sweeping the motorpool because some moron opened a fuel tank drain", this is their normal, every day schedule, essentially stretching their normal duty day to 14 and a half hours. That's dumb as hell, and then they'll wonder why people put in for a transfer and laugh in their face when they bring up reenlistment.
Hell, I staggered in plenty of mornings to go do a lake run without having slept the night before, but this is regular and recurring, not a short-term situation. What *should* be done is that his section either performs 1330-1430 PT, or 0030-0130 PT, if you want to match up to the normal "Do PT, shower, grab breakfast, go on duty" day.
This isn't "staying up to 0300 dry-sweeping the motorpool because some moron opened a fuel tank drain", this is their normal, every day schedule, essentially stretching their normal duty day to 14 and a half hours. That's dumb as hell, and then they'll wonder why people put in for a transfer and laugh in their face when they bring up reenlistment.
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
SGT Greg Weaver - ....During The Cuban Crisis, Everyone On Base Worked 12 Hour Shifts... NO Days Off.....I Don't Recall How Long This Went On, But It Seemed Like An Eternity. Granted, We Were Tired; B-52's Were Being Loaded With Nukes 24 Hours Per Day, Every Day. But The Job Had To Be Done, And We Did What Was Expected Of Us, But I Don't Recall Actually Being Exhausted. Maybe We Were To Busy To Notice As We Were ALL Facing The Same Situation Together. And Can You Imagine What Was Going Through Out Minds....A Nuke Has FAR More Power That The Atom Of WW II And We Also Had Far More Of Them... I Think We All Realized, If War Actually Broke Out...
There Wouldn't Be A Single Human Being Left Around To Even Bother Being Concerned About....... How's That For "Zero Population Growth"?
There Wouldn't Be A Single Human Being Left Around To Even Bother Being Concerned About....... How's That For "Zero Population Growth"?
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Some of you are going to have your ego hurt by what I am writing, but read this this all the way through and think long and hard on this before you hit that dislike/vote down button.
I have read some of the most bizarre, asinine, dare I say fool hardy comments, I have ever seen on Rally Point on this thread. Leaders, get a fracking clue, we are talking about soldiers who work in hospitals, not CQ, not Duty NCO, but soldiers who are treating YOUR soldiers! Would you want a civilian hospital to do the same thing as your loved one is laying in the ICU, NICU, or ER? How would you feel if you knew the staff only got 4-5 hours of sleep for weeks to months on end, and now your child is in their care? Feel good about yourself now? Feel like this is the way it should be for those who work these shifts? Feel like their soldier who got medevacked in deserves the best care we can give them, or some sub-standard level of care because we need to have full PT formations?
If you have never worked in health care, never had to work second or third shifts for prolonged time periods, had to work a person dying in front of you, well I got news for you: you haven't a clue! Ever watch a cardiac monitor for hours on end, try doing that in a sleep deprived environment, see how well you work out, or how well you like telling the survivors that their loved one passed away last night. With all the shortages in medical staff in the civilian world you don't think this kid is going to walk when his/her time is up? This is a case of Ego's, not leadership, or a lack of it. " I need to see a big unit in front of me." Hey Top, you run a hospital, that kid in ICU with the traumatic brain injury is far more important then your sniveling PT formation. That Kid in ICU is some ones loved one, if your second and third shift people are passing their PT tests lay off, or you will lose them, and won't be able to replace them, then you have bigger problems.
I have read some of the most bizarre, asinine, dare I say fool hardy comments, I have ever seen on Rally Point on this thread. Leaders, get a fracking clue, we are talking about soldiers who work in hospitals, not CQ, not Duty NCO, but soldiers who are treating YOUR soldiers! Would you want a civilian hospital to do the same thing as your loved one is laying in the ICU, NICU, or ER? How would you feel if you knew the staff only got 4-5 hours of sleep for weeks to months on end, and now your child is in their care? Feel good about yourself now? Feel like this is the way it should be for those who work these shifts? Feel like their soldier who got medevacked in deserves the best care we can give them, or some sub-standard level of care because we need to have full PT formations?
If you have never worked in health care, never had to work second or third shifts for prolonged time periods, had to work a person dying in front of you, well I got news for you: you haven't a clue! Ever watch a cardiac monitor for hours on end, try doing that in a sleep deprived environment, see how well you work out, or how well you like telling the survivors that their loved one passed away last night. With all the shortages in medical staff in the civilian world you don't think this kid is going to walk when his/her time is up? This is a case of Ego's, not leadership, or a lack of it. " I need to see a big unit in front of me." Hey Top, you run a hospital, that kid in ICU with the traumatic brain injury is far more important then your sniveling PT formation. That Kid in ICU is some ones loved one, if your second and third shift people are passing their PT tests lay off, or you will lose them, and won't be able to replace them, then you have bigger problems.
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Sgt Joy Cameron
LTC Raymond Buenteo as a person who worked in the medical field and law enforcement, why not let the troops who work different shifts do pt at a different time, then there won't be any argument. My flight chief and commander never made us do formation pt. They understood that schedules conflict. The medical field is in high demand for good ppl and pt. Is important however there can be an understanding given that night crew needs pt at a different time to get that much needed rest that is crucial to their work.
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Sgt Joy Cameron
CPO Jeffrey Bohemier I agree. This is why many people are leaving the army. They treat their people terribly.
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CW3 Kevin Storm
I find it comical 3 people don't like my post, well we never all agree on any given subject.
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