Posted on Feb 3, 2015
I am considering a Congressional inquiry...what advice do you have?
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I am reaching out to the RP community about a subject that is near and dear to my heart. My daughter is being threatened with OTH discharge from the USN.
My daughter is in the USN, she is a Seabee, and got herself into a pickle.
I do not like how the command is handling the situation...(my opinion only). There are some discrepancies that I would like investigated...I do not honestly think they will affect the outcome, but there are principles I would like addressed.
If you have any experience with writing or submitting a Congressional Inquiry, I would appreciate your input. Personal experience would take more precedence over hear-say. PM me if you have something private to share, I will keep all stories confidential...you have my word.
Specific questions I have:
I have two weeks until a scheduled Summary Court-Martial....is that enough time?
Should I send letters and requests Registered mail (requiring a signature)?
Do I write my Senators and Representatives as well as the Governor of the state she entered from as well as the current politicians in the county she is serving in?
Is there any backlash she can expect from my inquiry?
Is there any backlash I can expect as I still wear the uniform?
Is it possible I make this worse by getting involved?
Is it possible an IG Complaint (or USN equivalent) is more appropriate?
Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated?
My daughter is in the USN, she is a Seabee, and got herself into a pickle.
I do not like how the command is handling the situation...(my opinion only). There are some discrepancies that I would like investigated...I do not honestly think they will affect the outcome, but there are principles I would like addressed.
If you have any experience with writing or submitting a Congressional Inquiry, I would appreciate your input. Personal experience would take more precedence over hear-say. PM me if you have something private to share, I will keep all stories confidential...you have my word.
Specific questions I have:
I have two weeks until a scheduled Summary Court-Martial....is that enough time?
Should I send letters and requests Registered mail (requiring a signature)?
Do I write my Senators and Representatives as well as the Governor of the state she entered from as well as the current politicians in the county she is serving in?
Is there any backlash she can expect from my inquiry?
Is there any backlash I can expect as I still wear the uniform?
Is it possible I make this worse by getting involved?
Is it possible an IG Complaint (or USN equivalent) is more appropriate?
Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated?
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 20
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Time is your biggest enemy but as a fellow warrior, there is and must be a way. Who do you know that knows someone and who do they know? Start there.
Second; the detailed explanation of why the CM should not take place must be beyond reproach, most if not all Politicians will seldom speak out against a military office or in a singular situation unless a direct personal reason is present. (I.e. Governors Son gets stuck in boot camp reception station and calls on behalf of his son and all the others...this happened to me)
It may be wise to speak to her commander directly before taking it up the rope, they will most likely ask if you tried that, if you do indeed reach a Senator or Congressman. May I inquire which State?
Where a will, there is a way...
Steady on,
Steven
Second; the detailed explanation of why the CM should not take place must be beyond reproach, most if not all Politicians will seldom speak out against a military office or in a singular situation unless a direct personal reason is present. (I.e. Governors Son gets stuck in boot camp reception station and calls on behalf of his son and all the others...this happened to me)
It may be wise to speak to her commander directly before taking it up the rope, they will most likely ask if you tried that, if you do indeed reach a Senator or Congressman. May I inquire which State?
Where a will, there is a way...
Steady on,
Steven
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SSG(P) (Join to see)
Oregon is her home state...I will recruit the help of my fellow Congressman and women, as well as our Representatives and Governor Kitzhaber.
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SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA
So you do have a handle on some great contacts, if anything it would be important to delay the process to gain time to prepare a bit more. Good luck.
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Thoughts/Recommendations:
- COAs. There are several tools or COAs available to you/your daughter. I recommend picking the best tool or tools for the job. Possible COAs include: TDS (Trial Defense Services), direct engagement of her chain of command, indirect engagement of her chain of command, IG, and Congressional.
- Know the COAs. In order to determine the best COA, you must understand each one. For example, a congressional inquiry does not mean that your congressman will investigate the issue. A congressional inquiry means you send a note to your congressman (staffer really), the staffer sends the note and a cover letter to DoD, DoD passes it down the chain of command to your daughter's commander, your daughter's commander prepares and submits a response, the process is reserved until it gets back to you. Most congressional inquiries that I have seen, the Congressman only cares that they get a response and they pass the response on to you. Not really sure if they care what is in the response.
- To answer your specific questions in sequence:
1. Two weeks is generally not enough time.
2. Registered mail. Recommended yes.
3. Recommend your two Senators and your Rep. Governor and local politicians will not produce any more than you would get from Congress. Your call.
4. Backlash? Possible not probable but if your daughter is already facing a SCM, how much worse could it get?
5. Any backlash to you? Possible but unlikely. Doubt you chain of command will even be informed that you submitted a congression especially if you do not use your rank or unit.
6. Make things worse? Possible but unlikely. If your daughter's current chain of command is treating your daughter fairly then they should not be concerned about external eyes.
7. IG complaint? Yes more appropriate.
8. Advice. Looking at this from a commander's perspective, your daughter may not be telling you the entire story (worst case) or is merely telling you the story from her perspective (best case). You can not make an educated and informed decision unless you are aware of other points of view. Your issue is how to obtain those other points of view.
- COAs. There are several tools or COAs available to you/your daughter. I recommend picking the best tool or tools for the job. Possible COAs include: TDS (Trial Defense Services), direct engagement of her chain of command, indirect engagement of her chain of command, IG, and Congressional.
- Know the COAs. In order to determine the best COA, you must understand each one. For example, a congressional inquiry does not mean that your congressman will investigate the issue. A congressional inquiry means you send a note to your congressman (staffer really), the staffer sends the note and a cover letter to DoD, DoD passes it down the chain of command to your daughter's commander, your daughter's commander prepares and submits a response, the process is reserved until it gets back to you. Most congressional inquiries that I have seen, the Congressman only cares that they get a response and they pass the response on to you. Not really sure if they care what is in the response.
- To answer your specific questions in sequence:
1. Two weeks is generally not enough time.
2. Registered mail. Recommended yes.
3. Recommend your two Senators and your Rep. Governor and local politicians will not produce any more than you would get from Congress. Your call.
4. Backlash? Possible not probable but if your daughter is already facing a SCM, how much worse could it get?
5. Any backlash to you? Possible but unlikely. Doubt you chain of command will even be informed that you submitted a congression especially if you do not use your rank or unit.
6. Make things worse? Possible but unlikely. If your daughter's current chain of command is treating your daughter fairly then they should not be concerned about external eyes.
7. IG complaint? Yes more appropriate.
8. Advice. Looking at this from a commander's perspective, your daughter may not be telling you the entire story (worst case) or is merely telling you the story from her perspective (best case). You can not make an educated and informed decision unless you are aware of other points of view. Your issue is how to obtain those other points of view.
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Congressional Inquiry, while I have never written one, I have responded to them on more than one occasion. Not once were they founded, not once did they change anything.
The CI will pass through channels down to the unit level where a response will be written, that response will provide details in response, justifications and policy, regulation, law that supports.
Im sure there are CI that are valid and require an action by the command other than just wasting time to respond.. IOW need changes are made. I've just not been in a unit where that was the case.
Bottom line, the same leaders that are dealing with your daughters situation are the ones that will write the response to the CI. If they think they are just in the actions, the CI will be returned with justifications and policy that support those actions.
So ask questions in the CI which specifcally address your concerns, to which you believe answers will cause change
The CI will pass through channels down to the unit level where a response will be written, that response will provide details in response, justifications and policy, regulation, law that supports.
Im sure there are CI that are valid and require an action by the command other than just wasting time to respond.. IOW need changes are made. I've just not been in a unit where that was the case.
Bottom line, the same leaders that are dealing with your daughters situation are the ones that will write the response to the CI. If they think they are just in the actions, the CI will be returned with justifications and policy that support those actions.
So ask questions in the CI which specifcally address your concerns, to which you believe answers will cause change
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COL Vincent Stoneking
SGM Erik Marquez
I cut this from an already too long reply elsewhere, but I have a template that I use for CI responses. It reads as follows:
The Hon. NAME
RE: Inquiry regarding SOLDIER
1. Thank you for your inquiry of DATE, regarding SOLDIER.
2. This is the background regarding SOLDIER and Issues....
3. These are the actions I have taken to date and the reasons why....
4. These are the options open to me, the path I intend to follow and the reasons....
5. These are the options to the Soldier, should he/she disagree or be dissatisfied...
6. With regard to your specific questions: (only if needed)
Question1:
Answer1:
Question2....
7. If you have any additional questions, please contact me at CONTACT INFO.
So far, none have had further questions.
It is a PITA,and gets a lot of scrutiny, but doesn't necessitate change, assuming that you were coloring within the lines to start with.
I do know of ONE situation where an IG complaint led to needed action taking place. Zero for congressionals.
I cut this from an already too long reply elsewhere, but I have a template that I use for CI responses. It reads as follows:
The Hon. NAME
RE: Inquiry regarding SOLDIER
1. Thank you for your inquiry of DATE, regarding SOLDIER.
2. This is the background regarding SOLDIER and Issues....
3. These are the actions I have taken to date and the reasons why....
4. These are the options open to me, the path I intend to follow and the reasons....
5. These are the options to the Soldier, should he/she disagree or be dissatisfied...
6. With regard to your specific questions: (only if needed)
Question1:
Answer1:
Question2....
7. If you have any additional questions, please contact me at CONTACT INFO.
So far, none have had further questions.
It is a PITA,and gets a lot of scrutiny, but doesn't necessitate change, assuming that you were coloring within the lines to start with.
I do know of ONE situation where an IG complaint led to needed action taking place. Zero for congressionals.
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SSG(P) (Join to see)
Thanks to both of you for a timely reply, I have a letter that needs some final edits, I'd like to run it by you before I drop it in the inbox of the CDR. Would you take a once over at it?
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I've dealt with about 4 Congressional and about double that many IG complaints and I've also advised some Soldier's to ask for a Congressional on their behalf. Short and to the point since you ask for our experience:
No - nothing moves fast on either one. There is a short suspense (used to be about five days, not counting mailing time) for the inquiry to be answered once it's issued, but there is a time it will sit in the Congressman's office being considered and/or getting put together for an official inquiry and then there is the time it will sit in the Congressman's office once it gets back. There is also mailing time and requests for delays/additional time to 'gather information'.
Yes/No - put in writing and keep copies. Registered isn't required - do confirm receipt if anything. A staffer will sign for it and that doesn't mean much. The letters should be coming from your daughter also - she is the one with the issue/problem.
Yes/Yes/No/Don't know - write the Senators and Representatives - that is why they call it a Congressional. Governor can't help/do anything unless she is National Guard. Foreign politicians - don't know the circumstances but can't imagine how they can help.
Doubtful - given the time frame. Not supposed to happen. If the situation is this dire, what does she have to lose?
Very Doubtful - again, don't know the circumstances. Doubt anything could blowback on you - different branch. Will be between you, the Congressman and the Navy.
Probably not - again, sounds pretty bad now if she is facing a summary court and OTH discharge.
No - The IG (equivalent) process is to advise the Commander/give the Commander.
Your daughter should be getting advice from counsel provided to her who is working for her/in her interest. Not knowing the circumstances I would advise talking with her council and get their perspective on everything if you haven't already. Starting the request for a Congressional Inquiry may be the only recourse she has. Typically, when a military member makes a complaint to their congressman, the congressman's staff will read it, determine what agency needs to respond and then forwards the complaint to the agency, in this case the Navy, attached to a letter signed by the congressman. The congressman rarely, if ever, takes sides. In other words, he or she will not become your advocate. Rather, they simply ask the agency to forward a reply to the complaint to their office. Once received, the congressman will write you a nice letter thanking you for your service and telling you that the agency response to your complaint is attached. Unless there is some political reason for the congressman to get involved, your complaint will be handled by staffers and responded to with form letters. Every time we had a Congressional, we got a photo copy of the request for assistance/complaint forwarded down through channels to the persons command or whatever level the perceived injustice occurred. We then would send a reply back addressing the issues, through the same channels. One thing a Congressional does do is brings whatever the issue is to the attention of higher commands who get to see the complaint and the response. Some commands don't want that attention or spotlight shining on them asking what the hell happened to cause a Congressional.
No - nothing moves fast on either one. There is a short suspense (used to be about five days, not counting mailing time) for the inquiry to be answered once it's issued, but there is a time it will sit in the Congressman's office being considered and/or getting put together for an official inquiry and then there is the time it will sit in the Congressman's office once it gets back. There is also mailing time and requests for delays/additional time to 'gather information'.
Yes/No - put in writing and keep copies. Registered isn't required - do confirm receipt if anything. A staffer will sign for it and that doesn't mean much. The letters should be coming from your daughter also - she is the one with the issue/problem.
Yes/Yes/No/Don't know - write the Senators and Representatives - that is why they call it a Congressional. Governor can't help/do anything unless she is National Guard. Foreign politicians - don't know the circumstances but can't imagine how they can help.
Doubtful - given the time frame. Not supposed to happen. If the situation is this dire, what does she have to lose?
Very Doubtful - again, don't know the circumstances. Doubt anything could blowback on you - different branch. Will be between you, the Congressman and the Navy.
Probably not - again, sounds pretty bad now if she is facing a summary court and OTH discharge.
No - The IG (equivalent) process is to advise the Commander/give the Commander.
Your daughter should be getting advice from counsel provided to her who is working for her/in her interest. Not knowing the circumstances I would advise talking with her council and get their perspective on everything if you haven't already. Starting the request for a Congressional Inquiry may be the only recourse she has. Typically, when a military member makes a complaint to their congressman, the congressman's staff will read it, determine what agency needs to respond and then forwards the complaint to the agency, in this case the Navy, attached to a letter signed by the congressman. The congressman rarely, if ever, takes sides. In other words, he or she will not become your advocate. Rather, they simply ask the agency to forward a reply to the complaint to their office. Once received, the congressman will write you a nice letter thanking you for your service and telling you that the agency response to your complaint is attached. Unless there is some political reason for the congressman to get involved, your complaint will be handled by staffers and responded to with form letters. Every time we had a Congressional, we got a photo copy of the request for assistance/complaint forwarded down through channels to the persons command or whatever level the perceived injustice occurred. We then would send a reply back addressing the issues, through the same channels. One thing a Congressional does do is brings whatever the issue is to the attention of higher commands who get to see the complaint and the response. Some commands don't want that attention or spotlight shining on them asking what the hell happened to cause a Congressional.
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SSG(P) (Join to see)
I'll text offline add ' details and add whatever you can...believe it or not, it all helps. We are going to start a charter reference letter campaign to her Commander...care to jump in...details forthcoming.
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IMO, your best option at this point is to seek professional legal assistance. This will force some options in discovery and determine whether the Navy has a solid enough case to take it to the next level. Involvement of a civilian representative for your daughter will also give you time to look at other options.
There is a very real consideration that your daughter is indeed guilty of the indiscretions and should consider the separation from the service as a wake up call and correct those behavior patterns. You may want her to stay on, but that may not be the best for her or the service. You know that as well as any.
A a good military lawyer may be able to shift it from an OTH to a General if certain concessions are made.
These are options. Not all are going to be to your liking, that does not mean that they are bad.
There is a very real consideration that your daughter is indeed guilty of the indiscretions and should consider the separation from the service as a wake up call and correct those behavior patterns. You may want her to stay on, but that may not be the best for her or the service. You know that as well as any.
A a good military lawyer may be able to shift it from an OTH to a General if certain concessions are made.
These are options. Not all are going to be to your liking, that does not mean that they are bad.
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SSG(P) (Join to see)
With the help of many experts, we have a solid COA. Thanks for commenting, and thanks for caring.
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CW2 Joseph Evans
SSG(P) (Join to see)
Good luck and peace be upon you. Sometimes the challenges before us today are just harbingers of greater things to come. Remember to take time for yourself in this time of trouble and seek counsel so that you can see your way clearly.
Good luck and peace be upon you. Sometimes the challenges before us today are just harbingers of greater things to come. Remember to take time for yourself in this time of trouble and seek counsel so that you can see your way clearly.
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From my limited experience, I haven't seen congressional officials do many things quickly when they're notified of a perceived problem or injustice. Remember, you're likely to only speak with their military liaison and that person will decide what happens from there. If going that route, I'd contact the congressional official in the district where I'm registered to vote or where my adult child is registered.
The IG could provide a quicker response to the issues at hand.
If she's not been in consultation with a JAG defense attorney, you or she should explore why. You may be told you have no legal right to question or that they cannot disclose information to you.
Ask your daughter if she waived her right to representation. She may have waived and not realize it. If so, she should be able to alter that and now request legal representation. She should also inform her attorney that they are able to discuss the case with you.
Could you get an appointment with JAG at your location to see what her rights are or should be?
I'm sure you've had a "come to Jesus" meeting with her where she laid all the facts (good, bad, and the ugly) out before you. Remind her again that you love her and will stand by her regardless of what happens. Based on the outcome of the "come to Jesus" meeting, that may be the best option for both of you. There are some situations where you can fight and fight and fight and achieve nothing but a really bad memory of the damages done.
Don't make any promises you can't keep ("we'll fight and win this" type of stuff) and don't let the experience taint your image of the military. I've seen it happen to seasoned NCO's when their children entered the service and something like this happen.
God bless, brother! I hope this works out for you and your daughter.
The IG could provide a quicker response to the issues at hand.
If she's not been in consultation with a JAG defense attorney, you or she should explore why. You may be told you have no legal right to question or that they cannot disclose information to you.
Ask your daughter if she waived her right to representation. She may have waived and not realize it. If so, she should be able to alter that and now request legal representation. She should also inform her attorney that they are able to discuss the case with you.
Could you get an appointment with JAG at your location to see what her rights are or should be?
I'm sure you've had a "come to Jesus" meeting with her where she laid all the facts (good, bad, and the ugly) out before you. Remind her again that you love her and will stand by her regardless of what happens. Based on the outcome of the "come to Jesus" meeting, that may be the best option for both of you. There are some situations where you can fight and fight and fight and achieve nothing but a really bad memory of the damages done.
Don't make any promises you can't keep ("we'll fight and win this" type of stuff) and don't let the experience taint your image of the military. I've seen it happen to seasoned NCO's when their children entered the service and something like this happen.
God bless, brother! I hope this works out for you and your daughter.
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SSG(P) (Join to see)
Thanks...actions have consequences, I am just trying to make them less severe when considering all the information....thanks.
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If your daughter career is being threaten. I advice her not to discuss anything with her chain of command without an IG reprepresentative, record any conversations, also request that demands from her command be noted and signed by the IG. This will cut the he said, they said, I said.
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Good Afternoon!
My question is this. I have applied to the VA located in Lake Nona Florida, I am a cardiovascular RN, with 18 years experience. I have applied to well over 15 positions, having interviewed maybe twice, and each time looked over, and no-one can give me an explanation as to why? I know, a more qualified person was selected, that said, but 15 positions in which I am qualified for and the managers that interviewed me with out question wanted me for that position. Who do Talk to to get an honest answer or even start an investigation. I am a veteran with 15 years active duty, and an Honorable discharge.
My question is this. I have applied to the VA located in Lake Nona Florida, I am a cardiovascular RN, with 18 years experience. I have applied to well over 15 positions, having interviewed maybe twice, and each time looked over, and no-one can give me an explanation as to why? I know, a more qualified person was selected, that said, but 15 positions in which I am qualified for and the managers that interviewed me with out question wanted me for that position. Who do Talk to to get an honest answer or even start an investigation. I am a veteran with 15 years active duty, and an Honorable discharge.
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It really depends on the reason she is receiving a court martial. I wouldn't congressional inquiry because it will not stop the process. There shouldnt be any backlash but you will be probably have to answer a few questions on why you went around your entire chain of command to do this. You cant make it any worse because a court martial is already in process. An IG complaint is only going to look into how there came to be a court martial so unless her chain of command didnt take the proper steps an IG complaint will not help. Also your daughter is not being threatened with anything. An OTH discharge is one of the repercussions with a court martial. Also two weeks isnt enough time. IF anything she can have you come speak on her behalf as a character witness which may improve her discharge from OTH to general
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When I was in I was having no luck getting my signing bonus while going though my chain of command. After I had been in for almost 2 1/2 years I finally sat down with my congressman and had a conversation with him while on leave. Less than 2 weeks later I went back to Ft Carson and my CO asked what the hell I did as they had a congressional investigation into what was going on with my bonus, and I did receive it in full on my next LES. It made some of the higher ups not happy with how fast things went (and that I had gone that route after they had gotten no where) but everything did blow over after a couple of months.
SSG(P) (Join to see), if you feel that is what is best, then it is the route you need to take. It CAN happen quickly...but don't always expect it to happen like that.
SSG(P) (Join to see), if you feel that is what is best, then it is the route you need to take. It CAN happen quickly...but don't always expect it to happen like that.
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