Posted on Oct 21, 2016
“I'm going to fail height-weight on purpose and get booted” – how would you handle this?
144K
1.21K
412
135
135
0
This actually happened to me while I was a battery XO in Hawaii. My brigade had just gotten back from OIF and we were in that weird period of tons of people leaving the unit, and tons of new people coming in. I was in the motor pool like a good XO and one of the guys came up to me and asked to chat in private – he was a SPC (E-4) who was on soft shoe profile and had been for a few months. He was also on some PT profile, which many were skeptical of but that’s not the point. He was also quite overweight and in bad physical shape.
“I don’t want to be in the Army anymore,” he told me. “I’m just planning to keep failing height-weight over and over until I get booted out.” So I talked with him and we went back and forth about what’s really going on with him, etc. But he just stayed firm on: (1) wanting to get out of the Army ASAP; and (2) planning to put no effort into passing height-weight, to get booted.
Obviously I know what actions I took here but I don’t want to spoil it for everyone. How would you have responded in this situation?
“I don’t want to be in the Army anymore,” he told me. “I’m just planning to keep failing height-weight over and over until I get booted out.” So I talked with him and we went back and forth about what’s really going on with him, etc. But he just stayed firm on: (1) wanting to get out of the Army ASAP; and (2) planning to put no effort into passing height-weight, to get booted.
Obviously I know what actions I took here but I don’t want to spoil it for everyone. How would you have responded in this situation?
Height and Weight
Army Regulations
UCMJ
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 259
3
3
0
So I was asked by a soldier, so if your flagged for weight, no favorable action can be done for you. However, removing a soldier that wants out is in one way a favorable action, as he wants out. Amazing thing is he maxes the APFT, and hardly breaks a sweat doing so. He had under a year to go, he just wanted out sooner. Informing him that it won't be pretty and it could get to not be under honorable conditions, and the things that can go wrong in your future like employment etc. Well the next tape he was under the tape, and he actually got down to within the weight standards without tape. When I counseled him again all he said was I thought about what you said, I'm still getting out but I want to leave under a clean slate. HE did..
He also owns a couple fitness stores now.
He also owns a couple fitness stores now.
(3)
(0)
2
2
0
Years ago, I knew a PFC in my unit who could not control his weight. He was a big guy before coming in the Army who played football in high school and college. The sad thing is is that he wanted to re-enlist and stay in the Army. Maybe steps were taken that I'm not aware of but it seems to me that some people in our chain of command failed to help him. In the end, the man wasn't chaptered out. He was allowed to finish out his 3 years and ETS.
(2)
(0)
2
2
0
Having been an XO - BCD, no tolerance. (of course this was the Marine Corps/Navy so a little different)
(2)
(0)
2
2
0
I think the real question to ask,
Is this a soldier worth keeping. I have known many good soldiers, who just could not keep the weight off.
If this is a good soldier, then put in the effort to motivate him and change his mind.
Get to the root of the problem. It is clear there are other issues at hand. Mass exodus, Low morale, Injuries. There are obvious signs that there is more going on here.
This kind of problem is a flag to more serious problems. As a leader, you might want to get in there and find out.
You can always point out the cost (Bonus repayment, Flag to reenlistment, GI bill etc) of getting out that way. An of course you can Article 15 or court Marshal for intentionally doing it, but then you have to prove that it is intentional, vs the frustration of not being able to lose weight.
If not, there are ways to process him out faster, so you can open that slot up for a new solder.
Good luck, either way.
Is this a soldier worth keeping. I have known many good soldiers, who just could not keep the weight off.
If this is a good soldier, then put in the effort to motivate him and change his mind.
Get to the root of the problem. It is clear there are other issues at hand. Mass exodus, Low morale, Injuries. There are obvious signs that there is more going on here.
This kind of problem is a flag to more serious problems. As a leader, you might want to get in there and find out.
You can always point out the cost (Bonus repayment, Flag to reenlistment, GI bill etc) of getting out that way. An of course you can Article 15 or court Marshal for intentionally doing it, but then you have to prove that it is intentional, vs the frustration of not being able to lose weight.
If not, there are ways to process him out faster, so you can open that slot up for a new solder.
Good luck, either way.
(2)
(0)
CPO Keith Morgan
Staff I agree , but the example given displayed a lack of any good qualities when the individual stated he was determined to get out.
(0)
(0)
2
2
0
Letter of counseling for first failure to met standards to document the intent and the root cause and see if we can fix it. If he still wants out then I would elevate it to the next level. I would charge him with dereliction of duty and failure to obey lawful orders and regulations...ESPECIALLY if he told me he was doing it on purpose...that is willfully going against regs and orders. Once he was getting separated, I would ensure his DD 214 had the proper codes for no possible way to reenlist. Send him on his way. I you moddycoddle him others will see it and then you have a disease spreading through your ranks that you will never recover from. get rid of him, shake the dust off your boots and move on to taking care of the ones that want to be there...don't have enough time to babysit a grown man.
(2)
(0)
2
2
0
Have a nice day? You'll be missed? Bye Felicia? If they don't want to be there, you don't want them there.
(2)
(0)
2
2
0
Drill down to find the underlying reason. Could be a family emergency that we can help with. Could be an emotional problem that mental health or the chaplain can help with.
But if he simply is tired of the service, I would not be sympathetic.
First, I would ask him to consider what would be his mother and father's reaction to the fact that he can't hack it in the service? He's a coward that won't stick it out with the rest of his unit that relies on him. Millions of men have served honorably, so what makes him such a pathetic exception?
His plan is to shirk his duty, malinger from doctor's orders, and disobey the commander's written order to cooperate with the weight-loss program. So I would send him to the shrink, the chaplain, and the law office. Document it. Press the charges. Graduate the punishments. If he doesn't improve then use him as an example to deter others. We must show that the command will not tolerate shirking, malingering cowards who disobey orders.
But if he simply is tired of the service, I would not be sympathetic.
First, I would ask him to consider what would be his mother and father's reaction to the fact that he can't hack it in the service? He's a coward that won't stick it out with the rest of his unit that relies on him. Millions of men have served honorably, so what makes him such a pathetic exception?
His plan is to shirk his duty, malinger from doctor's orders, and disobey the commander's written order to cooperate with the weight-loss program. So I would send him to the shrink, the chaplain, and the law office. Document it. Press the charges. Graduate the punishments. If he doesn't improve then use him as an example to deter others. We must show that the command will not tolerate shirking, malingering cowards who disobey orders.
(2)
(0)
CWO2 Richard Rose
I had a young sailor go to my SCPO of the division stating that he was fed up and wanted out. The SCPO sent the sailor to me. He said, I just want out and don't care how. He was a sharp PO3 and from a small town in my home state. Bad discharges do not go over well in this part of the South. I reviewed his division officer's file and we took a walk away from the facility for a talk. His Dad is roughly my age and a Vietnam veteran. I asked him how he would feel if I called his Dad. He did not want me making that call. He turned around and promoted to PO2 the next promotion cycle and re-enlisted. He had a problem back home after getting a "Dear John" letter thanks to Jody.
I have lost several outstanding petty officers over the years for failing the PRT and height & weight standards. Being in a rating where 18 hours of 24/7/365 with the only break is to go to chow and eat as fast as possible to get back on watch. Doesn't leave much time for PT. Additionally, doing Remedial PT on a steel flight deck every day for a four year tour plays hell with knees, feet, hips and backs.
Another one was the absolutely best Leading Petty Officer (PO1) I ever served with had a weight problem that in no small way was in my opinion originated with a large explosion onboard his previous ship and the extreme pressure from the investigators implying that he was likely to blame. This resulted in numerous sailors killed and a ship heavily damage. I had merged two divisions together relieving an LDO LT and a Marine Capt. Long story short this decorated sailor with 16 years of service with mostly sea duty was invited to leave the Navy without anyone discussing anything with me. I could have gotten him orders to my next duty station ashore overseas and could have gotten him back into standards. The Navy lost a future CPO and above. A MCPO made this happen without one word to me.The PO1 lost a career and retirement, because he was in his work center making sure things ran smoothly for our battle group and embarked Marines and air squadrons.
I have lost several outstanding petty officers over the years for failing the PRT and height & weight standards. Being in a rating where 18 hours of 24/7/365 with the only break is to go to chow and eat as fast as possible to get back on watch. Doesn't leave much time for PT. Additionally, doing Remedial PT on a steel flight deck every day for a four year tour plays hell with knees, feet, hips and backs.
Another one was the absolutely best Leading Petty Officer (PO1) I ever served with had a weight problem that in no small way was in my opinion originated with a large explosion onboard his previous ship and the extreme pressure from the investigators implying that he was likely to blame. This resulted in numerous sailors killed and a ship heavily damage. I had merged two divisions together relieving an LDO LT and a Marine Capt. Long story short this decorated sailor with 16 years of service with mostly sea duty was invited to leave the Navy without anyone discussing anything with me. I could have gotten him orders to my next duty station ashore overseas and could have gotten him back into standards. The Navy lost a future CPO and above. A MCPO made this happen without one word to me.The PO1 lost a career and retirement, because he was in his work center making sure things ran smoothly for our battle group and embarked Marines and air squadrons.
(0)
(0)
2
2
0
I had a Soldier that did something similar (APFT failure). He is very smart and articulate. When I asked him why he was doing this, he laid it all out very intelligently, the end result being that he no longer believed in what the Army and US Government stood for and didn't want any part of it.
The ironic thing is that, despite failing every APFT that he was given, JAG would kick back the company's Involuntary Separation paperwork for one thing or another. One of the reasons was that he was on a temporary profile when he took an APFT. He had to write a memo to JAG waiving his temp profile so his separation could continue to be processed.
At the end of the process, he got an Honorable discharge because anything less than that must be accompanied with proven evidence of misconduct. Since there was nothing more than the normal counselings for failing APFTs, there was nothing substantiating anything less than an Honorable.
The ironic thing is that, despite failing every APFT that he was given, JAG would kick back the company's Involuntary Separation paperwork for one thing or another. One of the reasons was that he was on a temporary profile when he took an APFT. He had to write a memo to JAG waiving his temp profile so his separation could continue to be processed.
At the end of the process, he got an Honorable discharge because anything less than that must be accompanied with proven evidence of misconduct. Since there was nothing more than the normal counselings for failing APFTs, there was nothing substantiating anything less than an Honorable.
(2)
(0)
2
2
0
What kind of DD214 does he get? How will this look on a resume when he goes looking for a civilian job? What will this do to his health? This is an attitude problem, yes, but also a self-worth issue. Are there other issues in his life that are impacting his self esteem? Is there any other way for him to separate that doesn't have ramifications for his health and personal life down the line? Just a woman's view...consider the person as well as the Army.
(2)
(0)
2
2
0
This makes me pretty mad considering there are some people who truly want to be a part of the military that are squared away individuals but have a hard time keeping up with the height and weight standards that get booted and then there are people like this who do it on purpose because they don't care. Bottom line is you signed a contract and so you do your best to fulfil that contract until it's up period! at least have some pride in serving your country.
(2)
(0)
PO1 Lawrence Lewis
That was me I had to bust my azz for 20 years to keep ahead of the height/weight standards. I stressed every time the PRT came around.
(1)
(0)
PO3 (Join to see)
Same with me! I've struggled to make weight but I bust my butt and I do my best to stay in shape! I've even gone a whole month eating nothing but salads and drinking nothing but water just to pass because I signed up for this so I'm going to do my best to meet that standard. PO1 Lawrence Lewis -
(1)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google