If a Soldier is up for a Qualitative Management Program (QMP) board for elimination from the Army, should they lose NCOES reservation?

I just got a message from my old unit (AMEDD NCOA) regarding a SSG who is up for QMP. The SSG's reservation was canceled due to his impending QMP and that the STEP program has established a new OML that concentrates on SGT(P) with highest promotion points taking precedence over all others.

You are correct. Shaming, hazing and negative motivators are shunned in the 'new' Army (of which I agree). However, the QMP specifically targets SM who have received specific reprimands, that do not have to be of serious criminal nature (i.e. any ART15 will get your file reviewed for SSG & above). The Army implemented a Select, Train, Educate, Promote (STEP) program last month that requires all SM of the rank beyond their NCOES education level to have completed that a particular level of school. For instance, if you are a Sergeant (E5), you must have completed WLC (formerly PLDC) to keep your stripes. The ALARACT gives you twelve months from date of promotion, however, the new Order of Merit for ATRRS reservation moved away from SGT's who hold the rank, without completing WLC, to SPC(P) who have the highest promotion points. Bottom line, you can be a SGT and not have WLC and NOT be given a course reservation. Interesting dilemma.

Wow!!... Things have changed! I would say that I believe that if your a NCO and its been more than a year since you were promoted... there is something Hinky about that and I would be concerned too! Either a COC is derelict in their duties or the SM is, in the Coc's eyes not ready for the school which would raise the question to me, why is that Person being retained, so yes, now that you explained it I would have to retract my initial vote from undecided to a firm yes. Back in the day (man I love that saying!!) you were looked at if you stayed a certain rank for x amount of years, a SGT who had held that rank for lets say 10 years was dropped. I am glad I showed enthusiasm to my COC and they sent me to PLDC and BNCOC pretty much back to back as regs allowed them too.

Nice. The one two punch and your out the Army!

Just because they are getting looked att doesn't mean they are actually getting kicked out.. that's what I don't understand, so your punishing the soldier?

SSG (Join to see) - The thing is we get looked at during the SFC, MSG, SGM boards. So in reality you won't know if you are being "looked at" or being selected at all. It's after you have been selected and notified is the main problem. In the end, you aren't punishing the soldier or anyone in that matter, you are just affording them time to prepare and transition out and preparing someone else to move up.

SSG (Join to see) - Also lets not forget there's a difference between QMP and QSP.

Unfortunately the "grandfathered clause" has expired in the Army's eyes. Considering your status, I strongly encourage to not miss your scheduled reservation (if you have one yet). Best of luck.

But SFC Sutherland, what if the SSG is always deployed or recovering from a surgery? I just don't think it is fair to generalize. There are so many different circumstances.

Of course each circumstance is assessed by it's own merits. I'm the OPS NCOIC now so I see every drop packet and unfortunately, deployment related injuries are few and rare. With the new e-profile system, it's easy to see any profile patterns that may paint a different picture. I know of one SGT who has missed WLC now five times, most of which were not profile related. Unfortunate...yes, but how many more chances can be given. Remember, you may have battle-buddies who are "P", but without ALC, they cannot pin. Should they not be given priority slots because the promoted SSGs without the school be given the slot? A tough dilemma indeed.

Yes you are right SFC I am one of those "P's". I totally see what you are saying. In that case I guess us Junior NCOs need to step it up.

Not sure what you are referencing. I'm not looking for guidance, but thank you for the help. I just happen to come by a situation that a SSG was canceled an ALC reservation to make room for a SGT(P) with high promotion points. I thought this was an interesting situation and wanted to see what your guys thoughts are on the subject. Thanks for responding.

Sorry, it's this damn phone app. I was answering a different post...this really is the worst phone app

I was wondering. I hate "auto-correct", but can't text without it. lol.

QMP doesn't mean they will be eliminated. Just going to be reviewed. With the new step program, they may lose their rank whether or not they are eliminated.

MSG (Join to see) this was my understating of AR 635-200 (QMP).
Army Regulation (AR) 635-200 sets forth the policies and procedures for the Army’s Qualitative Management Program (QMP). The objectives of the QMP are to enhance the quality of career enlisted Soldiers, retain the best qualified Soldiers, deny continued service to nonproductive Soldiers, and encourage Soldiers to maintain their eligibility for continued service. Under this program, an Army board periodically reviews the official files of noncommissioned officers in the rank of Staff Sergeant and above to determine if the Soldier’s performance, conduct, and/or potential for advancement meets the Army standards. Soldiers identified as not meeting these standards may be denied continued service and involuntarily discharged.
http://www.carson.army.mil/LEGAL/documents/separation-under-qmp.pdf

MSG (Join to see) I found the latest information paper

SUBJECT: Qualitative Management Program DAPE-MPE-PD 11 April 2014
1. Purpose: To provide information on the Quantitative Management Program (QMP).
2. Facts:
a. The Qualitative Management Program (QMP) denies Noncommissioned Officers (NCOs) continued service when their performance and or conduct are inconsistent with Army standards. The program, formerly designed as a subjective review process of NCOs eligible for promotion consideration on an annual basis, was suspended in 2002 as a result of the Army’s mobilization status.
b. In July 2009, the Army reinstituted a new QMP process predicated on objective derogatory documentation filed permanently in the official file of Senior NCOs (SFC and above) who are retirement eligible, but had not attained 30 years of active federal service. Reinstatement of the QMP ensures Senior NCOs continue to serve in a manner consistent with good order and discipline. Such policy stresses the importance of the U.S. Army NCO Corps by ensuring only Senior NCOs who consistently maintain high standards of performance, efficiency, morality, and professionalism are permitted to continue to serve on active duty.

c. Under the new design, Senior NCOs will be referred to a board for potential denial of continued service upon receipt of one of five derogatory documents permanently filed in their records. Those documents are:

(1) General Officer Letter/Memorandum of Reprimand.

(2) Conviction by Courts-Martial or Article 15, UCMJ.

(3) Relief for Cause Noncommissioned Officer Evaluation Report (NCOER).

(4) Senior Rater rating of 4 (fair) or 5 (poor) in the overall performance or potential blocks on an NCOER.

(5) Academic Evaluation Report indicating NCOES course failure.

d. On 27 January 2011, all NCOs who receive an NCOER with a "NO" in VALUES became subject to the QMP process.

e. Soldiers receive written notification by HQDA when they are subject to QMP consideration; affording them an avenue to address mitigating/extenuating circumstances to the president of the review board. The NCOs are also provided an avenue to elect retirement in lieu of the board; provided their retirement occur within 12 months. In instances when the Soldier is ultimately denied continued active service by the board process, they must submit a voluntary retirement with retirement occurring no later than the 1st day of the 7th month following the final decision or they are subject to involuntary separation.

f. The QMP is a qualitative process but is not intended to, nor does it relieve commanders of their responsibility to take appropriate action against Senior NCOs who clearly, in the best interest of the Army, do not meet retention standards for continued service.

g. On 10 April 2014, the Secretary of the Army approved Army Directive 2014-06, further modifying the QMP as follows:

(1) Expand eligibility to include all SSG and above, regardless of years of service.

(2) The QMP screening procedures will include consideration of official documents (poor performance or misconduct) in the Soldier's current grade, upon receipt for permanent filing in either the performance or restricted folder of the Army Military Human Resource Record (AMHRR).

(3) Subject the following NCOs to the QMP process when they fail to qualify themselves for promotion consideration to the next grade because they have not completed (graduated) the appropriate level of Noncommissioned Officer Education System:

(a) Staff Sergeants upon attainment of 48 months time in grade (TIG) without having graduated the Advanced Leaders Course.

(b) Sergeants First Class upon attainment of 48 months TIG without having graduated the Senior Leaders Course.

(4) In addition to the current authorities vested with the General Court Martial Convening Authority, establish equivalent authority to the Commander, US Army Human Resources Command, to initiate the QMP process for an NCO (SSG or above) in an effort to determine if the NCO's manner of performance, degree of efficiency, or misconduct constitutes consideration for denial of continued service.

(5) The Army will systemically apply these changes over the course of the next year; subjecting NCOs to the new policies as follows:

Thanks Sarge for sharing!!

All I know is that, SGT(P) with high promotion points will be given those slots.