Posted on Feb 9, 2014
If a soldier isn't competent enough to set up their own ASU, why keep them in the service?
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Somebody tell me something, I know this isn't as important as some of the discussions we have but I think it has to be addressed. If a soldier isn't competent enough to set up their own ASU (minus the look over by their leadership to check for minor adjustments), why are they in the service if they can't complete such a task?
Something so simple especially with all the technology, the infamous AR 670-1, and almost EVERYTHING being available provided by Google. I understand we're suppose to be there for our battle buddies and our soldiers, but DAMN! These soldiers act like they never learned how to set up their uniforms in basic training. Give me your input and opinion on this matter because I kind of find it pathetic.
Something so simple especially with all the technology, the infamous AR 670-1, and almost EVERYTHING being available provided by Google. I understand we're suppose to be there for our battle buddies and our soldiers, but DAMN! These soldiers act like they never learned how to set up their uniforms in basic training. Give me your input and opinion on this matter because I kind of find it pathetic.
ASU
Training
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 24
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As many uniform corrections as I have to make, day in and day out, especially on NCO's and Officers, if we did as you suggest, our end strength would be smaller than the Coast Guards...
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CMC Robert Young
SSG H. I'm fearful that if we adopted a similar approach in the Coast Guard our end strength would equal the night crew at a average Burger King....this must be a universal problem ;-)
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SGT Robinson,
This is a well known, but little talked about right of passage for NCO's. You are responsible for everything, at all times, for everyone under your guidance. An ASU / Class A inspection is not always to see if the Soldier is squared away, sometimes it is to see if the NCO squares away the Soldier.
That being said, you should develop your Soldier to the point where they put it together and you spot check. Don't count on a Drill Sergeant to do your ground work for you.
This is a well known, but little talked about right of passage for NCO's. You are responsible for everything, at all times, for everyone under your guidance. An ASU / Class A inspection is not always to see if the Soldier is squared away, sometimes it is to see if the NCO squares away the Soldier.
That being said, you should develop your Soldier to the point where they put it together and you spot check. Don't count on a Drill Sergeant to do your ground work for you.
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Simple: Nobody will take the time to do the counselings and administer additional/corrective training in a way that either solves the problem or lays the groundwork for separation.
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Honestly we need practice, practice, practice. If there is one event a year that we need our ASU, chances are us newer folk aren't going to remember every individual aspect of the uniform.
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CW2(P) (Join to see)
That's a good view point. I'm haven't memorized every aspect of the uniform, so if I'm uncertain about something, I look into AR 670-1, or I'll go onto the internet and research. I'm just saying, I know our some of our service members are that ignorant to where they don't want to pick up AR 670-1 or look on the internet.
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I can bring a different perspective to this conversation. In basic training (2011) we NEVER wore the ASU, we NEVER talked about the proper wearing of each piece, and the only piece we touched besides accepting it from supply was the beret, that we spent hours on hours shaving. I made it a priority of mine when I got to DLI to ensure I understood each part of the uniform and proper wear of each piece of brass/medal.
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SGT Robinson,
When we entered the service, none of us knew much about it. We were taught by NCOs what we needed to know and where to find the information. AR 670-1 was drilled into a lot of us, and I too take it for granted at times that everyone knows the regulation and where to find it. It always amazes me when I mention the reg and a Soldier doesn't understand what I'm talking about, but it happens. At that point, you enter teaching mode and ensure they understand what the regulation is for and where to find it.
You're hitting on a deeper issue here than just uniform standards and knowing information. The type of Soldier coming out of training isn't the same as when some of us came through, because the recruitment pool has changed drastically with the times. Age may be starting to show here, but "kids these days" have different values and unfortunately society doesn't place much demand for discipline on them. We live in a world where people can get by doing the bare minimum or nothing at all and that's what a lot of these new soldiers have had drilled into their heads before they ever considered the military.
It sounds like with this Soldier, you have a prime opportunity to lead and guide. We all have different skill sets and some of us aren't as good at the details as others, but that's why we have each other to lean on. A Soldier not knowing how to set up their dress uniform is a problem that should be fixed, no doubt, but I wouldn't label them incompetent unless it is a recurring issue where he/she just refuses to or has an inability to learn what right is.
When we entered the service, none of us knew much about it. We were taught by NCOs what we needed to know and where to find the information. AR 670-1 was drilled into a lot of us, and I too take it for granted at times that everyone knows the regulation and where to find it. It always amazes me when I mention the reg and a Soldier doesn't understand what I'm talking about, but it happens. At that point, you enter teaching mode and ensure they understand what the regulation is for and where to find it.
You're hitting on a deeper issue here than just uniform standards and knowing information. The type of Soldier coming out of training isn't the same as when some of us came through, because the recruitment pool has changed drastically with the times. Age may be starting to show here, but "kids these days" have different values and unfortunately society doesn't place much demand for discipline on them. We live in a world where people can get by doing the bare minimum or nothing at all and that's what a lot of these new soldiers have had drilled into their heads before they ever considered the military.
It sounds like with this Soldier, you have a prime opportunity to lead and guide. We all have different skill sets and some of us aren't as good at the details as others, but that's why we have each other to lean on. A Soldier not knowing how to set up their dress uniform is a problem that should be fixed, no doubt, but I wouldn't label them incompetent unless it is a recurring issue where he/she just refuses to or has an inability to learn what right is.
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CW2(P) (Join to see)
It's definitely a recurring issue, but I'm sure there is no inability to learn, just a neglect to research or study from the ARs an other resources provided to them on the internet.
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I set up my own uniform but I still have my friend who is honor guard double check my work a second set of eyes is the best way to make sure nothing was over looked. Getting it all done somewhere else however is just lazy.
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I completely agree with you especially since my last CSM Called me into his office to ask me how to set up his gear which put me in a very difficult position I set it up for him but the whole time I was thinking OMG i’m deploying with this idiot Lord help us all needless to say by the end of the appointment he was being asked to retire
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Not every soldier knows everything, and not every soldier is good at everything. SGT Robinson, it's on you as a leader to impart knowledge and wisdom to your subordinates. If a subordinate doesn't know how to square away that uniform it reflects as poorly on you as it does them because it tells your superiors you aren't doing your job as an NCO. I understand you've got soldiers who fall right in, they get it right 95% of the time, but there will always be soldiers who need your guidance 95% of the time.
If you ever find yourself in charge of a handful or squads-worth of soldiers remember this: When your troops are squared away, both effective in appearance and ability, it directly reflects on you as a leader.
If you ever find yourself in charge of a handful or squads-worth of soldiers remember this: When your troops are squared away, both effective in appearance and ability, it directly reflects on you as a leader.
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CW2(P) (Join to see)
Everything you said is absolutely correct. I've never had issues with any of my soldiers being squared away, or having uniform issues after they've been taught or corrected. But if you have a SPC with 4+ years time in service that doesn't know how to put their ASU together, do you think it's incompetence or do you just baby them and put their uniform together yourself? There are many resources out there to tell you how to put the ASU together: Google, AR 670-1, and the Uniform Guide with the measurement tool sold at the clothing and sales. When a soldier comes to you and ask you to do something for them, i.e. help them put together their ASU, do you do it for them, or give them the resources so they know exactly where to go and know how to reference information next time. I get tired of leaders saying "It's on you!" Yes, the first time I catch a mistake, a brand new soldier gets me, and the first or second time a soldier ask for help, I'm going to show them how to do it, have them do it themselves, and then give them a source to reference from for the next time they might have an issue in that area.
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SFC (Join to see)
When I was "growing up" it was well before we all had computers in our barracks and smartphones. As you mentioned, I took my young butt over to C&S and bought the guide with the measurement tool. I was always a "take it on myself" type of soldier. I had solid leadership that took the time to ensure we knew what we were doing as well.
I've also seen young soldiers that for one reason or another never had to wear their dress uniforms that often. We had ours ready to go 24/7 for fear of not being prepared for a board or an inspection, but I know there are some units that put no emphasis on it.
I know it can be frustrating. But keep it up! As you said, give those problem soldiers the tools they need, show them the way. Get your troops together and have each one of them give a short brief on the wear of rank, service stripes, head gear, belt, trousers, ribbons, qualification and special skill badges, regimental affiliation, and accoutrement. Make them research the specifics of each, for both male and female uniforms. Then meet up again in a week (for STT maybe?) with them in their ASUs. Whomever has the least mistakes on their ASUs gets half a day off, or each mistake is 10 push-ups, or something like that.
Once they understand that you're not joking around about the uniform, they'll stop joking around about the uniform. If you need to get ugly with them, get it onto a counseling form and follow through.
I've also seen young soldiers that for one reason or another never had to wear their dress uniforms that often. We had ours ready to go 24/7 for fear of not being prepared for a board or an inspection, but I know there are some units that put no emphasis on it.
I know it can be frustrating. But keep it up! As you said, give those problem soldiers the tools they need, show them the way. Get your troops together and have each one of them give a short brief on the wear of rank, service stripes, head gear, belt, trousers, ribbons, qualification and special skill badges, regimental affiliation, and accoutrement. Make them research the specifics of each, for both male and female uniforms. Then meet up again in a week (for STT maybe?) with them in their ASUs. Whomever has the least mistakes on their ASUs gets half a day off, or each mistake is 10 push-ups, or something like that.
Once they understand that you're not joking around about the uniform, they'll stop joking around about the uniform. If you need to get ugly with them, get it onto a counseling form and follow through.
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Better men than I have worn the same uniform, so I feel I owe the effort of doing it myself to them.
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