Posted on May 3, 2017
PFC Power Generation Equipment Repairer
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Posted in these groups: Running_logo RunningP542 APFTImgres Physical Training
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CW3 Systems Architect
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I'm absolutely gobsmacked at those who are saying "Hey, if .13 of a mile is the difference between you passing and failing, you've got bigger problems". The standard is the standard, and if the standard is two miles, the standard is two miles....not two miles and one foot.

If you're going to tell me "You must run two miles in X amount of time" and fail me for exceeding the time, when the distance was exceeded, you are not honest.
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SSG Jeremy Schlieve
SSG Jeremy Schlieve
10 mo
CPL Arthur White - A 3 mile PT test is not the standard, 2-miles is the standard. That would be inclusive of Airborne and non-Airborne units. When I was in an Airborne unit we ran 4 miles due to requirements for the unit, but that was separate from an APFT.
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CW3 Jeffrey Cunningham
CW3 Jeffrey Cunningham
10 mo
SFC Joshua Steen - You do realize not all Warrant Officers are HS to flight school....many of us were NCOs as well as Sr NCOs before taking up the specialty
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SFC Joshua Steen
SFC Joshua Steen
10 mo
Which is why you’d think the Chief would know that PFCs don’t measure (nor should they be told to measure) PT Tracks, and that failing an APFT run based on an extra .13 (that’s extremely specific no? How’d he figure that out?) is indicative of a much larger problem.

Generally they also know that thinly veiled physical threats aren’t how Military business is conducted.

Who should get the promotion, the “barely meets the standard” “meets the standard” or “exceeds the standard” soldier?

Here’s the reality, if that private put as much effort into improving his run score as he did trying to lawyer his way out of a failure, (no one here has the whole story, whether this was an initial failure, whether his scores are always marginal, whether he’s a good troop or an oxygen thief) he’d pass his run with room to spare and have credibility to question track length.

What I saw here was a Warrant (and others) commenting far outside his lane with zero info, condemn an entire NCO chain on the word of a private with no background and the justify why marginal performance is perfectly acceptable and “the standard”.

It’s always helpful to good order and discipline for warrants and senior NCOs to take the word of a private with a clearly marginal performance complaint on a public forum to demonize his support chain and hold him up as some example of integrity and leadership.

I’d like to see his PT cards and counseling packet.
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SFC Michial Bergen
SFC Michial Bergen
10 mo
SFC Joshua Steen - I like it. Well said. I didn't think of it the way you put it and now gives me a better perspective. I like the way you put it and I concur there SFC!!!
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CW5 Sam B.
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Edited >1 y ago
If you passed that is all that matters, if it came down to a .13 of a mile difference between pass and fail, I think you will have a larger issue with the Army quarterly 4 mile run at the 9 minute pace. I do not like running, but it is a part of the Army life and has been since Jesus was a Private. I was serving with him when I could run a 12:58 two mile. Those days are long gone, but in lieu of dispute, just pass the test and hope that the .13 is dropped next time. Did you use a commercial device to figure it out? When you assess special operations, they take your watch and just say RUN FORREST, RUN and don't stop till the van pulls up and you jump in. At the youthful age of 54, I still don't enjoy running, but since 1987, have never failed a run. It is more mental than physical, so give it some NIKE and Just Do it! My .02
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SGT Charles Oliver
SGT Charles Oliver
1 y
Hell we ran 9 miles cross country in combat boots and fatigues in 49 minutes. Infantry all the way
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CW5 Sam B.
CW5 Sam B.
1 y
SGT Charles Oliver - obviously today's Army doesn't require folks to have to walk or run nearly as far as you guys had to back then. Standards have changed, I did Air Assault School in combat boots for the run, but now it is soft shoe athletic running shoes. The requirements for mandatory runs are quarterly in SOME units, not all.
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SSG William Bowen
SSG William Bowen
1 y
MAJ (Join to see) - Not to mention a 9 minute pace is a failing APFT pace. That would be a 18 minute two miler, which exceeds the minimum standard by over 2 minutes. If the dude was pacing him self and practicing at about a 15:10-15:15 two miler, not meritorious by any means, but then rolls in at 15:55-16:00, because the course 1/10 mile plus longer than 2 miles, it is not right he gets a failing score. The 2 mile run does not make or break the solider. I was never a good runner but I could do an ass of sit-ups (always scored in the 90s) though and could usually score in the 80s on pushups. I could navigate, looked squared away, could road march, always did my job, etc. I am sure we have seen plenty of people that could blast their 2 miles in under 11 minutes but were sorry or inept in other way in many other ways. What is the guy's MOS? Maybe he just isn't a PT stud. I would rather have finance clerk scoring a 180 and getting my pay and promotions right, than a guy with a 300 screwing it up. if he is Infantry, then PT score might be a little more important. Either way, the two mile course should be 2 miles.
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SPC Christopher Perrien
SPC Christopher Perrien
1 y
SGT Charles Oliver - Us tankers had a saying. "If we gotta run , the army has lost a war" :). But we could drink all night and run 5 miles a couple hours later in the morning.
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SSG Recovery Vehicle Supervisor
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If you mean to say, is your chain of command required to honor the request, I would say they should be open to the possibility of their test site being illegitimate. Make sure you measure it appropriately, with something more than a car. I suggest using an actual walking wheel. The question I have for you is, did you fail the run? What was the time difference between your current score and the one you hope to achieve?
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SFC Joshua Steen
SFC Joshua Steen
1 y
Is that your first PT failure Soldier? Was this a for record test? Was it a retest?

23 years old your run time is slow. If it’s your first failure, you get a retest. (Which is also going to happen if the course is long and you dispute it)

What you need to focus on is getting that run time squared away. Get off the internet boards and get on the track. Talk to your squad leader and ask for help.
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LCpl Helicopter Airframe Mechanic, UH/AH-1
LCpl (Join to see)
1 y
What is a perfect score and what is the failing score? I know a few years ago in the Marine Corp idk if it has changed at all but it could be +/- a certain amount just depending on the course with hills and what not
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MSG Dianne Whipple
MSG Dianne Whipple
1 y
I never understood the demand to run at a predetermined time, if I am out for a run it is one speed if someone is chasing me it is another speed, and if I am running to keep from being shot I am going to lose because I can't run that fast no matter what. If you can run 2 miles or 5 miles you still need to be in good shape so why all the push for a time?
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SSG Jeremy Schlieve
SSG Jeremy Schlieve
10 mo
SFC Joshua Steen - You know that any unit can classify an APFT as diagnostic and record as they see fit. Though, there should a record every six months during the fiscal year.
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