Posted on May 3, 2017
If the distance for the PT test run was 2.13 miles, am I still allowed to dispute it and request a retest?
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Posted 7 y ago
Responses: 239
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PFC (Join to see) the big question is how are you proving that it was 2.13 miles? If so it is not I would say it is not a valid test and open to retest.
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I spoke to my MSG today and they counseled me and told me that I could waive my right to wait 90 days and re take it at anytime I saw fit or simply wait to take another record test when the 90 days had passed. However, the catch with waiving my 90 days is that if i fail, my MSG said he will begin a chapter process. While I have no want to be chaptered or leave the Army at this time, I still feel I'm going to waive it. I'm going to spend the next 2 weeks running tracks as well as the same route and timing myself to make sure I can pass with a solid pace. Then waive and take the record test then.
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SGT (Join to see)
Before waiving your right to take another record PT test, I would suggest asking to take a couple PT tests that are not for record. This way you are not setting yourself up for chapter if you fail, and also can ensure you are up to the standards of passing the test. Once you have managed to achieve standard, shoot for even better, then request a record test.
This will protect you from the chapter and also help you gauge yourself and your progress before you take the step to competing the record test. Look out for yourself, as it sounds like your NCOs are not willing to look out for you.
This will protect you from the chapter and also help you gauge yourself and your progress before you take the step to competing the record test. Look out for yourself, as it sounds like your NCOs are not willing to look out for you.
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LTC (Join to see)
Also, if you are going to (run) train on the same course, train the ENTIRE APFT, not just the run. You can pass the run by 3:00+ (or better for our running studs out there) if you are not spent from doing the PU & SU first. Do all three events EVERY TIME in order to see if your run event time increases/decreases.
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SGT (Join to see)
By letting you know the full consequences, your MSG, believe it or not, is looking out for you. His statement very clearly indicates, "Take the time you need, because rushing this can hurt you." You're a PFC, so, don't need a good record PT test for a semi-centralized board yet, and at most may be looking at 3 months on a flag if you use the full 90 days to prepare, assuming they even submitted a flag certificate.
Rather than see this as your leadership threatening or coming down on you, appreciate their guidance for what it is, go out, train frequently, maintain good hydration and nutrition, and next time up knock it out of the park.
Honestly, I would save that 0.13 for IF a chapter process is initiated - all chapters have to go before legal, and at that point they can go out, measure the circuit themselves, and invalidate it and PT tests associated with it if they deem appropriate.
Rather than see this as your leadership threatening or coming down on you, appreciate their guidance for what it is, go out, train frequently, maintain good hydration and nutrition, and next time up knock it out of the park.
Honestly, I would save that 0.13 for IF a chapter process is initiated - all chapters have to go before legal, and at that point they can go out, measure the circuit themselves, and invalidate it and PT tests associated with it if they deem appropriate.
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MAJ (Join to see)
I'm going to give you my unique perspective on this. You have 90 days to retake the test. If you are reserve component, you have 180 days. To take the APFT for record prior to the 90 days, both you and your commander will have to agree (quite definitively) that you are ready to take the APFT for record. As stupid as it sounds, if you're ready to be unflagged, I'd honestly request something in writing stating that you're allowed per the commander to take the APFT again.
As to the two miles issue. 2 miles is 5280 feet x 2. 10560 feet. The only way you'll be able to prove the course is incorrect is with a wheel and someone of enough rank to be believed going and measuring with you. They won't take a private's word for it. If the course is long, the course is long. You have the ability to use the open door policy and discuss with the commander or 1sg. They may or may not look into it. You have the ability to use the IG office.
That being said, I can personally say that people are often punished in one way or another for using the IG. It doesn't matter if they were right or wrong. Most of the time, I've seen people punished for utilizing the IG. It's wrong. It happens all the time.
Your best bet is to get better at running or to go get a permanent profile with alternate pt event . That's soldier to soldier.
But, in this case, be careful the way you go about challenging it. It's very easy to get on the wrong side of your command and be drummed out of the army in modern days.
As to the two miles issue. 2 miles is 5280 feet x 2. 10560 feet. The only way you'll be able to prove the course is incorrect is with a wheel and someone of enough rank to be believed going and measuring with you. They won't take a private's word for it. If the course is long, the course is long. You have the ability to use the open door policy and discuss with the commander or 1sg. They may or may not look into it. You have the ability to use the IG office.
That being said, I can personally say that people are often punished in one way or another for using the IG. It doesn't matter if they were right or wrong. Most of the time, I've seen people punished for utilizing the IG. It's wrong. It happens all the time.
Your best bet is to get better at running or to go get a permanent profile with alternate pt event . That's soldier to soldier.
But, in this case, be careful the way you go about challenging it. It's very easy to get on the wrong side of your command and be drummed out of the army in modern days.
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First of all, in your case of this is validated that you overran your 2-mile and failed, I'd definitely request a retest. Personnel who were in charge of running the APFT, should have for one: recon/walked the route to its entirety to ensure its legitimacy. What was used to measure the distance? My question is did anyone participate in the test or was it just you? And was it a RECORD APFT? Is your leadership informed of the discrepancy? Because I would've raised a red flag. I mean, I'd raise questions and contact your leadership. If you felt like you got the wrong end of the stick, you have an obligation to question and seek guidance. Whether or not they honor your request, that's on leadership. Just keep doing your best and it'll all work out! Good luck!
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PFC (Join to see)
It was about 20 people in our detachment and it was measured with a walking stick I was told. Also yes it was a record APFT SGT.
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SSG (Join to see)
Yea, did anybody else have the same issue? Maybe all of you in your Detachment can bring it up collectively to your leadership. Having multiple people with the same issue could help. Just ensure its legit who you ask that to. Unfortunate that happened to you but it does happen. Leadership and graders should ensure that APFTs are done/conducted correctly.
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I think your complaint is legitimate and I'd be pissed if my 2 mile course was 2.13. I think you're probably catching flak from your unit because, as you stated in another comment, you ran a 17 minute 2.13 miles (7:58/mile). That equates to a 15:56 two mile time. If you're 21 or younger that's still failing. So while you may technically be correct about the course being off, you're not going to get anywhere if they know you're time was still not passing. Based on that (and the assumption you're not over 21) I'd let this one go. The worst thing that could happen is that they re-measure the course, let you take it again and you still fail it. But 2 seconds can be made up pretty easily and if meant not failing maybe you should keep pressing the issue. Just don't become a nuisance about it. And most of all, LEARN from this, WORK your butt off, and SMOKE the next test. Do that and .13 miles won't be an issue.
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SSG(P) (Join to see)
PFC (Join to see) - Come back with good news for all those that have advised you! Don't waste the advice you have been given, and the second chance you have on the table. I do 75 push-ups, 75 sit-ups, and at least three miles every day besides Sunday. This is in addition to regular PRT. Create a workout plan based upon your goals. Make sure your goals guarantee your success. Stat consistent with your workout. Grab a battle, and fight to get stronger together! Good luck!
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I would say this is on both the command and the soldier. The command failed to uphold the correct standard, which affects promotion points and could also possibly be the difference of getting into Ranger school or not by a few seconds when that soldiers technically passed the standard. However, the soldier should be I good enough shape to not have to rely on a minute making or breaking their test, assuming a fully healthy soldier of course. Soldiers will routinely run more in combat. PT tests are set up for the MINIMUM standard expected to complete the task, not the max. A good rule of thumb to follow is for a soldier to practice running more than 2 miles so that the 2 miles is a breeze, even if .13 does get added. Failure on both parties.
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25 years ago I never questioned or measured the 2 mile run. We were told to run to whatever NCO was at the turn around point and run back. Of course, the platoon I was in ran so much we were happy when it was put test time because we only had to run 2 miles!
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If you failed the run, then yes. Quite frankly it should invalidate the test for all as the distance would have impacted every score accept those that run like the wind. These scores equate to points and other forms of recognition. Thank you for your service.
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If you are failing with an extra 150 meters....you got other problems in all honesty
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Yes. The Army works on standards. You are held to them and so should those administering the test. I took an APFT that has the run shortened by less than that and we all had to redo the entire test two weeks later. So yes, I would make that protest! Good luck!
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