Posted on May 3, 2017
If the distance for the PT test run was 2.13 miles, am I still allowed to dispute it and request a retest?
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CPO (Join to see)
Excellent! Now tell us what you can do about all the denied promotion points because that extra 229 yards improperly increased *everyone's* run time by 15%? Since anything slower than a pace that would score 74 on a 2 mile track will fail the 2.13 mile track, how are you going to fix all the wrongful disciplinary actions improperly taken against Soldiers?
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Sorry dude you are not entitled to a re- do. If your CC comes forward and request one for you based on your standing and merit with his company and one is granted that’s one thing but standards are standards you personally have zero power to request one.
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As I was told as a young troop and passed it on to my troops, always train like you are going to have a bad day on a pt test. To others out there put yourself in this soldiers boots and ask yourself what is a reasonable outcome. To those of you who have never had a bad APFT day, don't worry it will come. I never failed a PT test but I definitely had some that were worse than others.
Also since we only have a certain angle or point of view of the story, I would entertain the exact details of how this came about.
Then you have the crusty old SFC in me say- Don't worry troop you will get to take it again, one way or another.
Also since we only have a certain angle or point of view of the story, I would entertain the exact details of how this came about.
Then you have the crusty old SFC in me say- Don't worry troop you will get to take it again, one way or another.
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CPO (Join to see)
SFC, what happens to the APFT score next? The PFC said he walked the course with a measuring wheel and that is how he confirmed the course is 2.13 miles. If all your Soldiers run more that two football fields extra after they are done running 2 miles, might it negatively extend their run times, adversely impact their APFT score, and improperly lower their promotion points?
A 20 y/o male score 74 at 2 miles will only get 60 at 2.13 miles. Look up the difference between 274 APFT score and 260 APFT score. Might that hamper the promotability of your Soldiers? Might that impact unit morale as Solders figure out the command is screwing everyone over by using a 2.13 mile APFT course? Might the IG or a Congressman take interest in such a tale, especially if Soldiers were wrongfully separated for 2 "failures" on that 2.13 mile track?
The fitness of a single PFC is tertiary at best, The leadership failure and its impact on the entire unit is the elephant in the room.
A 20 y/o male score 74 at 2 miles will only get 60 at 2.13 miles. Look up the difference between 274 APFT score and 260 APFT score. Might that hamper the promotability of your Soldiers? Might that impact unit morale as Solders figure out the command is screwing everyone over by using a 2.13 mile APFT course? Might the IG or a Congressman take interest in such a tale, especially if Soldiers were wrongfully separated for 2 "failures" on that 2.13 mile track?
The fitness of a single PFC is tertiary at best, The leadership failure and its impact on the entire unit is the elephant in the room.
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It is not the best option to pass an APFT with the minimum standard because that is a clear indicator of the poor perseverance and absence of preparation. In the end, the standard has a minimum and the minimum is 60% in a two miles run (not longer).
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Standards are standards. Of running 2 miles in x amount of minutes is the standard and you normally pass with only seconds to go. The course being .13 miles too long set you up for failure. Not everybody is a runner. Personal experience; I was a 6:30-7:00 mile until back and leg injuries had me passing by seconds. If they lengthened the course for schools then the tests should be diagnostic.
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CPO (Join to see)
SPC, add 15% to your last Record APFT run time and measure what that does to lower your APFT score, then figure out how many promotion points you would lose because you had to run over two football fields extra after you run 2 miles before the time stops.
Does losing those promotion points help or hinder your chance to pick up SGT? Does it just screw up your personal chance for promotion or would every Soldier that ran on the extended 2.13 mile course be impacted? A 20 y/o male would need to run at a pace that would score 74 on a 2 mile course just to earn a 60 on the 2.13 mile course. Anything slower than a 74 pace will fail on the 2.13 mile course. How many Soldiers in your unit run between 60-74? Now imagine they are all assigned a failed APFT for their passing pace. They are improperly flagged and get an unjustified adverse remark on their NCOER that will follow them for years. Some Soldiers are wrongfully separated from the Army for two "failures" on the invalid APFT course.
How is the PFC running more going to resolve all of the leadership failures and consequences resulting from leadership's inability to accurately measure out 2 miles?
Does losing those promotion points help or hinder your chance to pick up SGT? Does it just screw up your personal chance for promotion or would every Soldier that ran on the extended 2.13 mile course be impacted? A 20 y/o male would need to run at a pace that would score 74 on a 2 mile course just to earn a 60 on the 2.13 mile course. Anything slower than a 74 pace will fail on the 2.13 mile course. How many Soldiers in your unit run between 60-74? Now imagine they are all assigned a failed APFT for their passing pace. They are improperly flagged and get an unjustified adverse remark on their NCOER that will follow them for years. Some Soldiers are wrongfully separated from the Army for two "failures" on the invalid APFT course.
How is the PFC running more going to resolve all of the leadership failures and consequences resulting from leadership's inability to accurately measure out 2 miles?
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The .13 shouldn't matter if you meet the time on the 2 mile run (time depending on the age group you're in) if you can beat the maximum time within your age group that .13 extra shouldn't matter at all!
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CPO (Join to see)
So running more than two football field lengths after the end of your 2 mile run should not matter at all?
A 20 y/o male on pace for 100 at 2 miles will need to cut over 50 seconds from his time to get a 100 at 2.13 miles. Anything less than a 74 pace for 2 miles will fail on the 2.13 mile course. Is 74 the minimum required score or is 60? Does that extra 0.13 miles still not matter?
Add 15% to your last Record APFT run time and measure how much lower your APFT score drops, then see how many promotion points that costs you. Does that extra 0.13 miles still not matter? If you knew you lost all those points and were denied promotion because your command makes you run 0.13 mile too long, does it still not matter?
Now imagine your 70 pace is suddenly determined to be a failing score and you are wrongfully disciplined for failing to run 2.13 miles in the time provided to run just 2 miles. You weren't fast enough on that extra 229 yards so you are improperly flagged, making you ineligible for promotion, recognition (i.e. award), and most schools (which can further hurt your career). As an NCO you would get an adverse remark in your NCOER that will haunt you for roughly 5 years. But its not just you, it is every Soldier that scored less than a 74 on your unit's last run. Some of your fellow Soldiers might have even been wrongfully kicked out of the Army for two "failures" on that extended invalid course.
How is telling a single PFC to run faster going to resolve all the issues created by the leadership failures and the consequences of leadership being unable to accurately measure 2 miles?
A 20 y/o male on pace for 100 at 2 miles will need to cut over 50 seconds from his time to get a 100 at 2.13 miles. Anything less than a 74 pace for 2 miles will fail on the 2.13 mile course. Is 74 the minimum required score or is 60? Does that extra 0.13 miles still not matter?
Add 15% to your last Record APFT run time and measure how much lower your APFT score drops, then see how many promotion points that costs you. Does that extra 0.13 miles still not matter? If you knew you lost all those points and were denied promotion because your command makes you run 0.13 mile too long, does it still not matter?
Now imagine your 70 pace is suddenly determined to be a failing score and you are wrongfully disciplined for failing to run 2.13 miles in the time provided to run just 2 miles. You weren't fast enough on that extra 229 yards so you are improperly flagged, making you ineligible for promotion, recognition (i.e. award), and most schools (which can further hurt your career). As an NCO you would get an adverse remark in your NCOER that will haunt you for roughly 5 years. But its not just you, it is every Soldier that scored less than a 74 on your unit's last run. Some of your fellow Soldiers might have even been wrongfully kicked out of the Army for two "failures" on that extended invalid course.
How is telling a single PFC to run faster going to resolve all the issues created by the leadership failures and the consequences of leadership being unable to accurately measure 2 miles?
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