Posted on May 3, 2017
PFC Power Generation Equipment Repairer
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Posted in these groups: Running logo RunningP542 APFTImgres Physical Training
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Responses: 239
CPL Shannon Delay
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Suck it up and try harder trust I failed several I had only myself to blame but when I passed them it was for the best ..that is all
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SPC Scott Owen
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If you cant make the extra .13 in time to pass you suck anyway. How about those of us that took the tests for years on hilly and mountainous terrain? Do you think 2 miles flat is the same as 2 miles in the mountains? We never bitched and I dont recall seeing someone fail a pt test in the regular army outside of basic.
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LCpl Richard Jimenez
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Really let’s just tell the enemy if you run 2.13 miles we will let you get away because we only run 2 miles hang your head in shame or Represent your Country with Pride. These Colors Don’t Run except for PT
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CW4 Career Management Officer
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Thanks LCpl. For comparison sake- the PFC has a minimum passing requirement of 16:36. At that pace he needs to run aprox 49 seconds per tenth mile, (compared to your 56 seconds per tenth mile requirement for 3 miles in 28 minutes).
Lets say he usually runs a 15:50, its not stellar but it well exceeds the standard. That extra tenth of a mile will result in a fail.
Consider that .13 mile additional on 2 miles is the same as .195 mile additional on 3 miles. .195- lets round that to .2 for the sake of easier math. 2 tenths of a mile at 56 seconds per tenth. I know many Marines that wouldn't benefit from an extra two minutes on their runtime. How about you?
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CW4 Career Management Officer
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The standard is the standard. If you brought this complaint to me, I would get out the measuring wheel and I provide you a learning opportunity. I would teach you how to measure the course with it. Then if the course is too long I would absolutely allow you to retake your APFT. If it was not too long we'd do counseling, and you'd get 30 days of additional PT to train prior to a retest. Fair enough?
But be careful- I know people that would require your entire unit to retest. And they would be certain to ensure the entire unit knew it was due to your concern about meeting the standard. I can appreciate your personal courage, contesting it might be the integrity thing. However its not the loyalty thing. I recommend you should do the selfless-service thing and accept it, and do the duty thing and train harder.
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CPO Hospital Corpsman
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>1 y
Damn! I was going to vote you up until that second paragraph...

The PFC has said he used a measuring wheel to confirm the course was 2.13 miles. That invalidates the test for everyone pass or fail. In my book contesting it is not only the integrity thing but it is the loyalty thing too. The command has screwed everyone out of promotion points and (using 20 y/o male as example) any Soldier that run at a pace below 74 on a 2 mile course would fail the 2.13 mile course. Since when is a 70 a fail? Then an improper flagging making the Soldier ineligible for promotion and other restrictions. Likely adverse NCOER without cause (invalid APFT failure) that will haunt an NCO for years. What about the Soldiers erroneously processed for separation?

This PFC correcting the leadership failure would also improve his Battle Buddies' promotion points, eliminate improper flags, avoid adverse NCOERs, and save careers. If I was his NCO, I would recommend him for a CoA and take on the fight for him. If the command did not admit their error and try to blame the PFC, I sure hope the PFC simply asks Soldiers how many promotion points they got screwed out of by having to run an extra 229 yards at the end of their 2 mile run.

I'd make sure all the E4 up for E5 and E5 up for E6 knew they were getting screwed on the extended 2.13 mile course. The difference between a 274 APFT score and 260 APFT score is 24 promotion points the command wrongfully took away from all Soldiers in that category. How many Soldiers would get passed over for promotion or get a delayed promotion with 24 points missing from their cut off score?

Accepting this leadership failure is a big blue falcon move in my book! Assuming I am 100% positive the course is invalid, if command leadership did not fix the problem properly, I'd go IG in a heart beat. Should anyone in the command came hunting for me, a nice letter to Congress might even be in order if appropriate internal measures failed to resolve the issue.
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CW4 Career Management Officer
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CPO (Join to see) - Thanks for your response. What I am saying is that 1: "be careful what you wish for" and think about how others may perceive the action. In a long career (26 plus years, 19 years enlisted, an E-7 prior to becoming a Warrant Officer) I've learned (most of the time the hard way) that being right and doing the right thing are not always be the same thing. I also cant speak for the Soldier, I do not know what kind of culture is in the Soldier's unit. It is the kind of action that could result in a highly uncomfortable work environment for no significant gain. I would say the best thing the Soldier can do is learn from the event and try to be the kind of leader one day that will be aware of these things and do the best to prevent them from happening within his span of control and influence.
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MSG Automated Logistical Specialist
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Yes you should bring it up if everyone’s time increased. Also where you measure the road can make a difference if it’s not a straight line.
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SSgt Mike Stalker
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Pussy!
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CPO Hospital Corpsman
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SSgt Mike Stalker Calling your cat or looking in the mirror? Look up Army regs on their APFT and enlisted promotions. How many promotion point does the E4 20 y/o male PT stud loose when the course adds an extra 52 seconds to his run time and eliminates what would have been a perfect 300 score? Do you seriously think this is a single PFC being a "pussy" or unit leadership screwing over every Soldier that runs on that extended course?
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SGT Frank Pritchett
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Edited >1 y ago
Don't forget there are two types of PT Test, one is insure you are physically fit and and can be given at any time the 1st SG request it and the other one is a record PT Test that counts. If you are given a PT Test you can request it to be a record but you can not down grade a PT that is record. FM 21-20 clearly states what the the PT is and the requirements and they have not changed recently.
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SPC Robert Coventry
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I think you should be able to retake, if you ran 1.95 miles the army would make you do 2 miles
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PO1 Roy Snow
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Let's put a frickin rag head behind you with an AK, and let's see if you pass or fail
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MSG Intelligence Analyst
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The last APFT run I did in 15:15 I was 43 years old the next few I had to walk do to back issue yes if you add 61 seconds to any one time then there a issue.
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