Posted on Mar 12, 2014
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Posted in these groups: Star Promotions
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SGM Matthew Quick
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No AUTOMATIC promotions because you've reached a time in service milestone, especially specialist.  EARN IT!
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MSG Quality Assurance Manager
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Absolutely Master Sergeant. The sense of entitlement is bad enough in our country.
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SGM Matthew Quick
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Specific/detailed centralized promotion board feedback (SFC through SGM) for non-selects explaining WHY they were not selected, compared to their peers.

I know this would be near-impossible with the amount of scoring board members compared to records, unless there were a quantifiable alternative.
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SFC Observer   Controller/Trainer (Oc/T)
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12 y
Definitely agree!!!
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SSG(P) Armor Crew Member
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12 y
Not Fair MSG, you gave TWO!
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SSG Military Police
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I've already seen a couple of posts where people are saying bring back the skills test.  I don't agree nor disagree with that being added, but I would like to point out this:

 

I've met numerous peope in the military and in the civilian sector that knew how to do a job forwards and backwards.  However, many of those same people struggled to lead and/or teach others in how to do the job.  Knowing a job should be one component in the promotion system, but I don't think it is the end all of making a good leader.  There needs to be other components added if the system was going to be overhauled.

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If there is one thing you could change about the army promotion system what would it be?
SSG Oliver Mathews
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one thing? <br><br>Place an emphasis on technical ability. Possibly using a test such as the Air force combined with the Promotion Board. <br><br>Thats one thing... <br>
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SGT Company Senior Medic
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I've thought that too. If your unable to do your job why should you be getting promoted.
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MSG Quality Assurance Manager
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Not a big fan of the job skills test. 
I remember the the SQT and SDT, they had a bunch of issues then. That is why they were eliminated. That and you had people that received awards for their test scores but could not fire a weapon or navigate their way out of the PX. Some people are better at multiple guessing than others.
There were also huge inequities between MOS's some jobs had a 15 question test with a 30 minute time limit. More technical jobs had 50 question tests and 3 hour time limits.
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1SG Shane Hansen
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I would like for the Command List Integration to go away.  It's a lazy way out for both leaders and soldiers. To me it is accepting mediocrity and that is not okay.


I would like for board points to be reinstated.  Not everyone performs the same and that should be recognized.



I would like for "Commander's points" to be reinstated.  Again, not everyone performs at the same level and that should be recognized. But there should be some sort of checks and balances to ensure not everyone is getting max points.



I am probably alone in this, but I do NOT think deployments should count for promotion points either.  It's double dipping to me, you already get points from whatever deployment/service award you received while deployed.

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MSG Quality Assurance Manager
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12 y
    I agree on the commanders points 1SG H. I had a commander that awarded points based on my (the platoon sergeants) recommendation. It was humbling to have that kind of influence on my Soldiers' career progression.
    I created a points system counseling that I did on my squad leaders and required my squad leaders to do for their Soldiers wanting to submit a promotion packet. Points were awarded in the same five categories that are on the NCOER. Competence, Physical Fitness/ Military Bearing, Leadership, Training and Accountability/Responsibility.
    This gave future leaders a first look at what they will be evaluated on. The rest of the promotion point worksheet gave the board member very little to evaluate the future leader on what will be important for the rest of his/her career. 
    The commander often does not have the personal knowledge of each younger Soldier that his NCO support channel does. Each level had the right to add or remove points based on their own observations and experience. That way it was the entire chain of command, not just the commander, who was giving a recommendation to the board.
    
As far as the deployment thing goes I generally agree. People can perform well in jobs that do not deploy as often and should not be hindered in their career progression. But, that leads to deployment hiders and that is another topic on RP.
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1SG Shane Hansen
1SG Shane Hansen
12 y
I have also seen/experienced a system for commander's points like the one you described.  It was fair and generally worked well.  Usually it creates an atmosphere of competition amongst the future leaders and pushes them all to better themselves to get ahead.
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SPC Christopher Smith
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I've already given one answer but here is another thing I'd like to see changed with the promotion system.

 

If I could change one thing, I'd add Tech/Spec 5 and 6. My reasons: a) Some people do not want to lead, they have no interest in developing other people around them but they love their job and excel at it. b) Keeps a senior person on board to properly do technical jobs with little oversight. c) will closely resemble the Warrent ability to be highly specialized without the outside hassle. I'm sure other reasons fit as well, but I do not have them currently.

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SSG(P) Armor Crew Member
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Combat Deployments worth points.

It is a valuable leadership attribute, but pretty soon that category is going to be worthless because the SPCs and SGTs going for promotion will have never had a combat deployment. It'll just a category where no one has points in.
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SFC Stephen P.
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Add in involuntary reclassification to fill critical shortages.
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Maj Chris Nelson
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Having been a part time educator, one thing that I found in teaching was the development of grades... Tests give you a difinitive score that is backed up by an answer key.  The answers are right....or wrong.  Any papers that are written, while there is a degree of subjective, are based on a format (APA normally) with specific criteria that needs to be met.


 


The military promotion systems (this is for Army AND Air Force) rely on subjective data and the rater's ability to write bullets.  You may have done more and greater deeds then someone else, but do not get promoted because your writing team stinks at it.  I would like to see a system generated that removes almost all subjectiveness.  Stick to measureable data points. High score wins.  At promotion boards (especially record review boards), your PACKAGE is scored using specific criteria....but the information submitted is often subject to the human factor.  Time in Service, Time in Grade, SQT testing....all these provide measureable data points.  EPR/OPR provides the "sloppy factor".

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