Posted on Feb 19, 2016
If you Conceal Carry a Gun what is Your Personal ROE?
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If you Conceal Carry a Gun what is Your Personal Rules of Engagement?
What are the different levels of escalation that you are going to go through when comforted with a situation where you have to pull out your concealed weapon?
Are you prepared for the consequences of shooting or killing an individual in self-defense?
I'm curious about what you have put in place as your personal ROE
What are the different levels of escalation that you are going to go through when comforted with a situation where you have to pull out your concealed weapon?
Are you prepared for the consequences of shooting or killing an individual in self-defense?
I'm curious about what you have put in place as your personal ROE
Edited 10 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 66
The ROE part of the C&C class I took in MN was taught by an attorney, and he basically said in MN if the threat is within 21 feet or if you're defending your home you can use lethal force. I have had 3 occasions where just letting the other guy know I was armed de-escalated the situation in a hurry and they ran off.
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MCPO Roger Collins
The 21' rule only applies to edged weapons, and the Castle provision of laws aren't valid in all states.
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Cpl Chad Perry
He did explain all that in detail during the class, and he specifically referred to MN law. He said that someone within that 21 foot radius can still get to you even after they have been shot, therefore you could easily claim self defense. If they are outside that 21 foot radius a jury could determine you were not in imminent danger and your claim for self defense could be nullified. Even during the shooting part of the class, we never shot at any targets more than 21 feet away.
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MCPO Roger Collins
I am a terrible marksman, but at 50" can hit the target. That doesn't make sense to me.
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Cpl Chad Perry
It doesn't matter how good a shot you are. I was a PMI in the Marines. I can easily hit a person from several hundred yards away, but at such a long range no jury in the world would consider that self defense. The issue is whether or not you are in imminent danger, and in MN you are only in imminent danger if the threat is within that 21 foot radius or if you are in your home. MN also has the right to stand your ground while protecting your home. Out side that radius, you are expected to flee. This all has to do with how a jury will determine if you acted in self defense.
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In most states you cannot escalate force. If you draw you better be prepared to kill and stand trial. Drawing a concealed permit (in a perceived threatening manner) and not firing is a felony in most states. Heaven forbid you are not in a stand your ground state as you must prove that you retreated.
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MCPO Roger Collins
You pretty well laid out why I don't carry, unless there is a known or potential risk to me or my family.
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MAJ (Join to see)
Thankfully the risk is very minimal in this country, but it is still there. Hopefully I'll never draw mine but the success stories from people with CC permits clearly demonstrate that they are very effective at stopping and preventing crime. This one happened near my home at the time. An individual with a CC permit basically pinned him down then SWAT moved in and shot him in the back. Secondly I'd also like to point out that the reasons for not carrying are legal in nature, there are very few practical reasons not to. Or in other words if the laws were loosened things would improve in our country.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_Square_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_Square_shooting
Trolley Square shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Trolley Square shooting was a mass shooting that occurred on the evening of February 12, 2007, at Trolley Square Mall in Salt Lake City, Utah, United States. A lone gunman, identified as Sulejman Talović, killed five bystanders and wounded four others before being shot dead by police. The FBI was not able to determine a motive, declaring it was not an act of terrorism.
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I would rather be a good witness than have to engage however if I draw my weapon I am prepared to follow the same use of force as I would when working as a police officer. With this said, carrying off duty doesn't have the luxury of intermediate weapons.
A show of force is always the first level in the escalation of force during an encounter with a CCW holder. If possible the CCW holder should attempt to defuse the situation with commands and request someone contact law enforcement at this point. If that is not possible or the need to escalate continues the CCW holder should engage if the situation dictates. After the situation is over the CCW holder should be prepared to provide medical attention to any Injured. Someone at this point should also contact emergency personnel to include law enforcement if they haven't already been notified.
A show of force is always the first level in the escalation of force during an encounter with a CCW holder. If possible the CCW holder should attempt to defuse the situation with commands and request someone contact law enforcement at this point. If that is not possible or the need to escalate continues the CCW holder should engage if the situation dictates. After the situation is over the CCW holder should be prepared to provide medical attention to any Injured. Someone at this point should also contact emergency personnel to include law enforcement if they haven't already been notified.
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10 Commandments of Concealed Carry
Carrying a lethal weapon in public confers a grave power that carries with it great responsibilities. Here are the 10 commandments of concealed carry.
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs
MSgt (Join to see) Thanks for the link - great information for all! You should post this on Shared Links for more to see and use the same tags I did for the subject - just a suggestion - thanks
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Make sure you hit what you are aiming at and protect the lives of your loved ones and the innocent people around you.
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MCPO Roger Collins
The term "situational awareness" comes to mind. If anyone doesn't know what that means, they shouldn't be packing.
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I think these replies are a bit skewed and morally/legally written to sound good.
If you were in the same position as the Marine in Washington DC, I find it hard to believe that you would have acted as he did... Even though you were carrying.
If you were in the same position as the Marine in Washington DC, I find it hard to believe that you would have acted as he did... Even though you were carrying.
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In the State of Wisconsin the ROE are clearly delineated in the conceal carry statute and the training curriculum. This along with the Castle law gives a solid foundation to defend your family from. With this in mind, the consequences of shooting or killing an individual in self-defense is not desirable. There are no winners. Just losers. The only consolation is you will still be alive to fight for your freedom from incarceration, a revenge attack or the lessor reality experiencing financial bankruptcy. What other options do you have other then being a willing victim? A statistic. You have to find and excellent training institution, never stop learning, maintain firearm proficiency, avoid situations that increase the chances of confrontation and when confronted respond with measured due diligence.
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Someone said it here: the law has to be your ROEs. What may be ok in the military could get you in trouble in the civilian sector. I guess the general lawful rule is that unless you feel your life is in great danger you're not authorized to draw your weapon or shoot someone. For my life to be in great danger I must believe that this person has some kind of weapon (knife, bat, etc) to harm me with. I wonder what some carriers would do if someone without a weapon would just start punching him. Fighting someone off while carrying is a great danger to yourself and others.
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