Posted on Aug 2, 2020
If you get an article 15 during a chapter from the army would you still have to wait until your extra duty is over before being discharged?
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I was suppost to to be leaving the Army July 31st. It got kicked back and my chain of command is giving me an article 15 right before leaving. Are they just trying to screw me over before I leave? Nobody informed me this would be happening right before im suppost to be discharged from the army. I feel like my chain of command is taking advantage of me because im getting an honorable and they want to destroy my motivation.
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 18
Aren't you the guy that pissed hot and failed a urine drug test? If the Chapter packet was kicked back, then something was wrong with the packet. But if an Article 15 is being recommended/given, then you violated the Manuals of Court Martial/UCMJ somehow. Could be the hot piss test is the reason for the Article 15, who knows. You will certainly know when you go in front for your initial reading. Look, your ETS can be put on hold pending UCMJ resolution. I once knew a guy in Germany that was at the Frankfurt Airport...LITERALLY WALKING ONTO THE PLANE to fly back to the States....when he was detained by MPs for drug use and possession of drug paraphernalia. He was brought back to face UCMJ actions.
But, if you really want to know, then go to JAG and speak with a Defense Lawyer.
But, if you really want to know, then go to JAG and speak with a Defense Lawyer.
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MSG (Join to see)
PV2 Austin Lohmann - My apologies. So many folks posting about drug use and alcohol use combined with Chapters...I got confused. Either way, the situation is still the same. Packet was kicked back for some sort of error. This will happen at every level of review. From Company all the way up to the approving command level. Each level of Command and their JAG reps will review the packet to ensure the packet is correct at every block. If something is missing...or got missed...that is needed, it will get sent back to the beginning and restart.
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MSG (Join to see)
SFC James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" - Bro...he was signed out on Terminal Leave. Literally walking onto the plane when nabbed and brought back. They had to get him all new uniforms for his court martial. His new barracks was Mannheim Prison
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MSG (Join to see)
SFC James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" - Every single one of us at Landstuhl that knew him....we all were doing the Friday "Daaaammmmnnnnn" look and sound when we all found out.
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Sgt Ed Allen
Smart thing is to remember, until you have satisfied ALL requirements of your enlistment contract. Don't do anything that could get you in trouble. Knew a guy who decided to destroy all his uniforms after he got off the base (as in, just outside the gate). He had completed his 4 years, but still had 2 years of obligation to complete. They called him back and made him buy all new uniforms, including getting them tailored and ready for inspection.
You are not free of the rules until ALL obligations have been met.
You are not free of the rules until ALL obligations have been met.
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You are leaving the Amy, soon.
No one in the Army is interested in "destroying your motivation" on your way to the civilian world, or doing hours of extra paperwork just to "screw over" someone who won't be their problem in a month.
If your chapter case involved a violation of UCMJ, your command would be derelict of duty if they had not brought an Art 15.
They do have the option of suspending the punishment.
No one in the Army is interested in "destroying your motivation" on your way to the civilian world, or doing hours of extra paperwork just to "screw over" someone who won't be their problem in a month.
If your chapter case involved a violation of UCMJ, your command would be derelict of duty if they had not brought an Art 15.
They do have the option of suspending the punishment.
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LTC Jason Mackay
Is SECDEF Mattis' directive still in effect? He directed commanders to fully leverage UCMJ vice administrative tools to handle service member misconduct. This may be that.
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COL (Join to see)
Directive to fully leverage UCMJ is so open ended that it doesn’t mean squat. Commanders will do what they want to do on any situation that comes across their desk. And Mattis quit so whatever! LTC Jason Mackay
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PV2 Austin Lohmann
The answer is it depends.
If the unit decides that the chapter is simply a uniform requirement and they hold no ill will toward you it’s likely you will transition out as planned.
If they decide your transgression needs to be made an example of they may go through the pain of changing your discharge date and letting you serve out your article 15 punishment
If they decide you’re more of a problem I’m around an ethical or otherwise an issue to the rest of the command they’ll probably allow you to discharge at your normal day because it’s for the betterment of the service
The answer is it depends.
If the unit decides that the chapter is simply a uniform requirement and they hold no ill will toward you it’s likely you will transition out as planned.
If they decide your transgression needs to be made an example of they may go through the pain of changing your discharge date and letting you serve out your article 15 punishment
If they decide you’re more of a problem I’m around an ethical or otherwise an issue to the rest of the command they’ll probably allow you to discharge at your normal day because it’s for the betterment of the service
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PV2 Austin Lohmann
Thankyou SGM,
I am being discharged for chapter 9 sudc alcohol failure. My ets date originally was July 31st last Friday but that got kicked back since my ets date hasn't been updated from legal my command gave me an article 15 for an offense that happened months ago its the same offense that's caused my chapter driving to Austin to get a new vehicle when we had the 40 mile travel limit for Covid-19.
I am being discharged for chapter 9 sudc alcohol failure. My ets date originally was July 31st last Friday but that got kicked back since my ets date hasn't been updated from legal my command gave me an article 15 for an offense that happened months ago its the same offense that's caused my chapter driving to Austin to get a new vehicle when we had the 40 mile travel limit for Covid-19.
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SGM Erik Marquez
PV2 Austin Lohmann
Way too many possibilities without having all the information.
It can be as simple as the article 15 was already in the process and it simply completed the review process and came back to the unit for disposition and so they did since you were still there.
As for your discharge date having already gone by that’s a strange one it’s not as simple as somebody at a company or a battalion or Even brigade level just saying nope not gonna let it happen he can stay. It takes real work and effort to keep an SM passed an approved by DA separation date I can not see any command team be willing to put that effort in on anything but a really bad, or really good SM
Way too many possibilities without having all the information.
It can be as simple as the article 15 was already in the process and it simply completed the review process and came back to the unit for disposition and so they did since you were still there.
As for your discharge date having already gone by that’s a strange one it’s not as simple as somebody at a company or a battalion or Even brigade level just saying nope not gonna let it happen he can stay. It takes real work and effort to keep an SM passed an approved by DA separation date I can not see any command team be willing to put that effort in on anything but a really bad, or really good SM
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You cannot be retained past your ETS unless it’s for a court martial.
Your Command team doesn’t care about your discharge type. All ETS separations are an Honorable discharge.
If you are currently past your ETS then your command will need to execute an antedated extension with a memo from your Brigade Commander explaining how your command team failed to plan for your separation. If by “leave the Army” you meant sign out on leave, leave is at the discretion of the commander.
Your Command team doesn’t care about your discharge type. All ETS separations are an Honorable discharge.
If you are currently past your ETS then your command will need to execute an antedated extension with a memo from your Brigade Commander explaining how your command team failed to plan for your separation. If by “leave the Army” you meant sign out on leave, leave is at the discretion of the commander.
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SFC (Join to see)
SSG (Join to see) I saw that later. He changed his question after he first posted it. Talk about cherry picking for answers lol
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CPT (Join to see)
SSG (Join to see) - had to look up SUDCC, having retired in 2013 I was unaware of the new acronym...
https://www.army.mil/article/233202/asap_or_sudcc_separate_organizations_work_different_sides_of_alcohol_drug_issues
https://www.army.mil/article/233202/asap_or_sudcc_separate_organizations_work_different_sides_of_alcohol_drug_issues
ASAP or SUDCC? Separate organizations work different sides of alcohol, drug issues
ASAP or SUDCC? Separate organizations work different side...
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CPT (Join to see)
Back in the day it was ADAPCP (Army Drug and Alcohol Prevention and Control Program). But as we all know re-branding something gets someone a "top block" on their OER.
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This is something that I have actually dealt with. If you have a separation date already and they give you more days of additional duty beyond the separation date they will have to amend it. It is not that hard pushing back a separation date. If you think it is not fair you can always take it to court martial unless it's a summarized. I would make sure to talk to legal about this when you have your opportunity.
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If your command is starting Article 15 proceedings, then you have done something that goes against the UCMJ. Regardless of you being chaptered out, you did something that warrants a punishment. It’s not to destroy your motivation, it’s to enforce and maintain the standards. You will serve your punishment, then get out.
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And if it’s for SUDC failure, which is a violation of article 92, failure to obey a lawful order, you have to receive some sort of punishment
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I think it’s time you familiarize yourself with Title 10 of the US Code. A less than dishonorable discharge can not be given unless the person serves his or her enlistment tour with so many good time days. Any bad time days, for any reason, don’t count toward this legal requirement. So think of it this way. Someone out there, for what ever reason, is giving you a real break that from the tone of you post is a lot more than you deserve. You are not getting screwed. You are getting a big time, nice person break that will benefit you for the rest of your life. So my recommendation? Shut the hell up and go with the flow because someone is doing you one hell of a favor.
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O-k. First off. You say that you were due to get chaptered out of the Army July 31st but it got kicked back for some reason.
Going to be blunt but you getting chaptered and then getting an Article 15 during your final days makes you seriously sound like a fuck up that the Army cannot get rid of soon enough.
To clue you in, the Army is not screwing you, you are screwing you because you did something to warrant an Article 15 in the first place. And sorry but yes, they did inform you because to GET an Article 15 you have to be apprised of it and an appointment with JAG has to be made so they can counsel you on your options and legal status vis a vis the Article 15.
As your discharge got kicked back, you belong to the Army until they get your paperwork right and if that happens to mean that you have to serve extra duty prior to that happening then yes, that is what happens. However the Army cannot arbitrarily extend your enlistment just to serve ED. If you are due to get kicked on say the 5th of Aug and you get read an Article 15 that assigns 45 days of ED starting on the 4th, then the Army just gets stiffed out of the ED duty. You are a civilian.
Destroy your motivation? Motivation for what? Clearly that was already crap to begin with otherwise you would not be getting chaptered or getting Article 15's.
Going to be blunt but you getting chaptered and then getting an Article 15 during your final days makes you seriously sound like a fuck up that the Army cannot get rid of soon enough.
To clue you in, the Army is not screwing you, you are screwing you because you did something to warrant an Article 15 in the first place. And sorry but yes, they did inform you because to GET an Article 15 you have to be apprised of it and an appointment with JAG has to be made so they can counsel you on your options and legal status vis a vis the Article 15.
As your discharge got kicked back, you belong to the Army until they get your paperwork right and if that happens to mean that you have to serve extra duty prior to that happening then yes, that is what happens. However the Army cannot arbitrarily extend your enlistment just to serve ED. If you are due to get kicked on say the 5th of Aug and you get read an Article 15 that assigns 45 days of ED starting on the 4th, then the Army just gets stiffed out of the ED duty. You are a civilian.
Destroy your motivation? Motivation for what? Clearly that was already crap to begin with otherwise you would not be getting chaptered or getting Article 15's.
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