Posted on Nov 19, 2015
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Am not advocating a military coup so don't shoot the messenger. That said, our government is clearly not listening to the people that elected it, and we have a Constitutional crisis on our hands. The Federal Gov't is trying to import people it can't screen which puts Americans at risk. The Governors of at least 30 States are rejecting the refugees this Administration is trying to bring in against the popular will of the people. We have seen what is going on in Europe and retired Generals are starting to talk about removing our Commander in Chief. Do you agree with them?
NOTE: This is directed at V, R, and C, and SM are advised to NOT COMMENT on this discussion.
http://reagancoalition.com/articles/2015/u-s-military-generals-constitutional-crisis-could-force-military-to-remove-obama.html
NOTE: This is directed at V, R, and C, and SM are advised to NOT COMMENT on this discussion.
http://reagancoalition.com/articles/2015/u-s-military-generals-constitutional-crisis-could-force-military-to-remove-obama.html
Politics
Leadership
Law
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
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Wow, bad survey. All of them start with a really, really bad assumption.
Here's my view. You raise your hand and swear alliance to the Executive office. You should re-read the part that says " I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed ..." I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic."
Legally, the answer to your question is the Senate Sergeant at Arms is the only person authorized to arrest a President and if that happens, we are much worse off than your fringe hypothetical.
This sounds like the plot line from "Seven Days in May" when a power crazy USAF Chairman of the JCS (played by Burt Lancaster) tried a coup, but is blocked by a very determined (aren't they all?) Marine Colonel (played by Kirk Douglas).
Hypos are fine, but fringe ones like this, general officers who forget exactly what their role is, are not good for a democracy. Just look at sub-Saharan Africa.
Bottom line -- there isn't a single circumstance where any member of the US Military will ever be called upon to do such a thing and I for one would shoot the first military person who tried such a thing under any situation. My loyalty is to the Office of the President and not the holder.
You only have to suffer two more years of an improving economy and no ground wars for us, then it can go back to massive debt, wounded vets filling an unresponsive VA while our legislators look for ways to cut VA benefits.
Your call.
Here's my view. You raise your hand and swear alliance to the Executive office. You should re-read the part that says " I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed ..." I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic."
Legally, the answer to your question is the Senate Sergeant at Arms is the only person authorized to arrest a President and if that happens, we are much worse off than your fringe hypothetical.
This sounds like the plot line from "Seven Days in May" when a power crazy USAF Chairman of the JCS (played by Burt Lancaster) tried a coup, but is blocked by a very determined (aren't they all?) Marine Colonel (played by Kirk Douglas).
Hypos are fine, but fringe ones like this, general officers who forget exactly what their role is, are not good for a democracy. Just look at sub-Saharan Africa.
Bottom line -- there isn't a single circumstance where any member of the US Military will ever be called upon to do such a thing and I for one would shoot the first military person who tried such a thing under any situation. My loyalty is to the Office of the President and not the holder.
You only have to suffer two more years of an improving economy and no ground wars for us, then it can go back to massive debt, wounded vets filling an unresponsive VA while our legislators look for ways to cut VA benefits.
Your call.
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This is a horrible question and the so-called "leaders" that posted this question are only creating a vehicle for those with very personal feelings and opinions about the President to openly vent with impunity. This very thread is treasonous and we should all be mindful of the oaths taken to serve. It is not our position to "apply" our oath in a manner we see fit; it is the very reason why we do not have freedom of speech or the right to privacy (4th amendment) while serving. The military is NOT a political machine; it is a fighting machine. It is designed to win America's wars and NOT to wage against our own state. We took our oath freely and without reservations or evasion of prosecution. We must obey the Office of the Presidency and the Constitution. Stop trying to question the integrity of the President and do your duty honorably!
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MAJ Matthew Aiken
Capt Jeff S. - Thank you for your response. Is not the fact that service members feel it is their place to question the intent of the President bring their own integrity into question? Service members would not dare openly question orders of Flag officers over them so why do they feel it's okay to question the CINC? We as citizens elect our leaders thru a democratic process however; we as sworn members of the military accept the civilian leaders put in place by that process without question. If there are questions, then their are civilian personnel in place to do that.
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Capt Jeff S.
When your CINC engages in election fraud, and is installed without meeting the Constitutional qualifications of office, that right there should be enough to warrant question of the legitimacy of his orders. Some military officers did and lost their careers over it. THEY were patriots. The civilian authority that our military is subject to has corrupted itself. Are we to support that corruption?
We pride ourselves in the fact that our military is subject to civilian control and that we would never have a military coup because our military is too professional to do that. I think highly of our military leaders. Compare and contrast the public's approval rating of our military with that of Congress. Who does the public trust more? I am not advocating we have a military coup. But our country is broke and it needs fixing. How can you fix something that is broken so bad, and so overcome with corruption, that it perpetuates its corruption. The corruption plaguing our government is like a metastasizing cancer that has spread so much that the patient is terminal. Watching our country implode has been for me like watching a train wreck in slow motion.
Perhaps what we need is for all Presidential candidates to be able to pass a background check for a Top Secret clearance. We have seen how Obama (whose sketchy background would immediately disqualify him from such) and Hillary Clinton (who probably would fail miserably as well) have treated this nation's secrets. Their callous disregard for the handling of classified material and the access the provided to others through their appointments has really put this nation in a bind. And that doesn't even count all the covert stuff they did in the Middle East supporting terrorist rebels and getting our Ambassador killed, but I digress.
When your President removes Flag Officers because they don't want to sign on to his bad policy which compromises national security and endangers the lives of Americans, and they are forced into retirement for speaking the truth, I take issue.
I am convinced that those in Congress who certified Obama as eligible knew from the very beginning that he wasn't eligible but they ran him for partisan reasons. The fact that Nancy Pelosi removed the words "Constitutionally qualified" from her endorsement speaks volumes. But how many of you care? I applaud the loyalty of our SM who swear allegiance to the office, etc. but let's not give our blind loyalty to a corrupt government that isn't representing the popular will of the people. Think BIG PICTURE. Everything breaks down when the elected stop representing the electorate. This refugee crisis is yet another example of that. The American public by and large (70%!) do NOT want to take in Syrian refugees that we cannot screen, yet the Administration, which is subjecting our National Sovereignty to UN Control, is acting at the behest of the UN and against America's best interest. THAT IS TYRANNY!
Founding Father Thomas Jefferson had a lot to say about this subject and he advocated rebellion to fix the government and remind its leaders of their obligations. Do we stand by idly and allow our government to implode under the weight of its own corruption? If nothing changes, this country is on the fast track to imploding financially. The enemies of our freedom are orchestrating this. They want to take us over without firing a shot and they are fixing elections, chipping away at our Constitution and taking away our rights, crippling us economically, stripping away our national sovereignty, dumbing down the next generation and teaching them the benefits of progressive socialism. They are patient and they have been working steadily toward that end and they are very close to achieving their goal.
It's hard for me to watch this happen and listen to folks beat their chest and proclaim how professional they are while they miss entirely the big picture. Our Founding Fathers didn't sacrifice everything just so that we could give it away. They EXPECTED us to educate ourselves and to work hard to protect the inheritance they left for us. They gave us plenty of advice on how to do that, and we have paid the price for ignoring it. Jefferson, for example, advocated that each generation should be responsible for the debt it incurs and not pass it on to future generations. We really blew that one. Ever since Vietnam this country has been in the red and the burden of debt is now almost 19 trillion.
Let me tell you folks, "Climate Change is not the greatest threat to our National Security." The greatest threat is the one telling you that. And in seven short years he has gotten his way with Congress and added over $7.5 trillion to our National Debt, presided over a labor participation rate that is about 2/3. In other words, two people work to support the 1/3 of people that are out of work, plus pay for the operation of our government and all those on the public payroll, who happen to make up part of that 2/3 figure. Our nation will not survive this kind of mismanagement. Will elections fix it when 1/2 the country is on entitlements and won't vote against those promising them more?
These are difficult questions. I'm not trying to advocate sedition. I'm putting a spotlight on the corruption in our government that needs addressing.
We pride ourselves in the fact that our military is subject to civilian control and that we would never have a military coup because our military is too professional to do that. I think highly of our military leaders. Compare and contrast the public's approval rating of our military with that of Congress. Who does the public trust more? I am not advocating we have a military coup. But our country is broke and it needs fixing. How can you fix something that is broken so bad, and so overcome with corruption, that it perpetuates its corruption. The corruption plaguing our government is like a metastasizing cancer that has spread so much that the patient is terminal. Watching our country implode has been for me like watching a train wreck in slow motion.
Perhaps what we need is for all Presidential candidates to be able to pass a background check for a Top Secret clearance. We have seen how Obama (whose sketchy background would immediately disqualify him from such) and Hillary Clinton (who probably would fail miserably as well) have treated this nation's secrets. Their callous disregard for the handling of classified material and the access the provided to others through their appointments has really put this nation in a bind. And that doesn't even count all the covert stuff they did in the Middle East supporting terrorist rebels and getting our Ambassador killed, but I digress.
When your President removes Flag Officers because they don't want to sign on to his bad policy which compromises national security and endangers the lives of Americans, and they are forced into retirement for speaking the truth, I take issue.
I am convinced that those in Congress who certified Obama as eligible knew from the very beginning that he wasn't eligible but they ran him for partisan reasons. The fact that Nancy Pelosi removed the words "Constitutionally qualified" from her endorsement speaks volumes. But how many of you care? I applaud the loyalty of our SM who swear allegiance to the office, etc. but let's not give our blind loyalty to a corrupt government that isn't representing the popular will of the people. Think BIG PICTURE. Everything breaks down when the elected stop representing the electorate. This refugee crisis is yet another example of that. The American public by and large (70%!) do NOT want to take in Syrian refugees that we cannot screen, yet the Administration, which is subjecting our National Sovereignty to UN Control, is acting at the behest of the UN and against America's best interest. THAT IS TYRANNY!
Founding Father Thomas Jefferson had a lot to say about this subject and he advocated rebellion to fix the government and remind its leaders of their obligations. Do we stand by idly and allow our government to implode under the weight of its own corruption? If nothing changes, this country is on the fast track to imploding financially. The enemies of our freedom are orchestrating this. They want to take us over without firing a shot and they are fixing elections, chipping away at our Constitution and taking away our rights, crippling us economically, stripping away our national sovereignty, dumbing down the next generation and teaching them the benefits of progressive socialism. They are patient and they have been working steadily toward that end and they are very close to achieving their goal.
It's hard for me to watch this happen and listen to folks beat their chest and proclaim how professional they are while they miss entirely the big picture. Our Founding Fathers didn't sacrifice everything just so that we could give it away. They EXPECTED us to educate ourselves and to work hard to protect the inheritance they left for us. They gave us plenty of advice on how to do that, and we have paid the price for ignoring it. Jefferson, for example, advocated that each generation should be responsible for the debt it incurs and not pass it on to future generations. We really blew that one. Ever since Vietnam this country has been in the red and the burden of debt is now almost 19 trillion.
Let me tell you folks, "Climate Change is not the greatest threat to our National Security." The greatest threat is the one telling you that. And in seven short years he has gotten his way with Congress and added over $7.5 trillion to our National Debt, presided over a labor participation rate that is about 2/3. In other words, two people work to support the 1/3 of people that are out of work, plus pay for the operation of our government and all those on the public payroll, who happen to make up part of that 2/3 figure. Our nation will not survive this kind of mismanagement. Will elections fix it when 1/2 the country is on entitlements and won't vote against those promising them more?
These are difficult questions. I'm not trying to advocate sedition. I'm putting a spotlight on the corruption in our government that needs addressing.
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Removing the lawfully elected government by force?
Show me where that is in the Constitution.
Show me where that is in the Constitution.
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Capt Jeff S.
SCPO Joshua I I'll give you this quote from Jefferson to his friend William Smith:
"Yet where does this anarchy exist? Where did it ever exist, except in the single instance of Massachusetts? And can history produce an instance of rebellion so honourably conducted? I say nothing of it's motives. They were founded in ignorance, not wickedness. God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13. states independent 11. years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century & a half for each state. What country before ever existed a century & half without a rebellion? & what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms."
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And here it is in context:
http://americancreation.blogspot.com/2009/08/jeffersons-tree-of-liberty-quote-in.html
"Yet where does this anarchy exist? Where did it ever exist, except in the single instance of Massachusetts? And can history produce an instance of rebellion so honourably conducted? I say nothing of it's motives. They were founded in ignorance, not wickedness. God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13. states independent 11. years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century & a half for each state. What country before ever existed a century & half without a rebellion? & what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms."
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And here it is in context:
http://americancreation.blogspot.com/2009/08/jeffersons-tree-of-liberty-quote-in.html
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SCPO Joshua I
Capt Jeff S. The founding fathers committed treason against Great Britain. That's not now nor has it ever been in debate. They knew it, we know it, everyone knows it. They then put in place a system of government that does not have a monarchy, but allows for representation, which continues to this day.
Your personal political feelings are no longer in line with the government that was Constitutionally elected by the people of the United States (twice, no less). That's a political problem. You probably can't solve it at the ballot box anymore, because the people in the US are no longer conservative in general, but the Constitution gives you no right to deprive the majority of the US of the right to elect the government they choose.
It has nothing to do with the Constitutionality of the military overthrowing the government.
Again, non responsive. You're typing lots of words about lots of politics, all of which are not relevant to asking the military to commit an unconstitutional act.
Your personal political feelings are no longer in line with the government that was Constitutionally elected by the people of the United States (twice, no less). That's a political problem. You probably can't solve it at the ballot box anymore, because the people in the US are no longer conservative in general, but the Constitution gives you no right to deprive the majority of the US of the right to elect the government they choose.
It has nothing to do with the Constitutionality of the military overthrowing the government.
Again, non responsive. You're typing lots of words about lots of politics, all of which are not relevant to asking the military to commit an unconstitutional act.
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Capt Jeff S.
I don't think the majority of Americans are happy with the way things are going on in Washington. Most Americans would prefer to see more integrity demonstrated in Washington DC. They are tired of the petty politics being played up in Washington. They are tired of being lied to by the politicians and our lamestream news media.
SCPO, you use liberal buzz words like "deprive", and you speak this vain shit about there being no hope for changing things at the ballotbox because the majority of people are no longer conservative. I think you're full of crap and as out of touch as your fraudulent leader.
A whole lot more people are Conservative than you understand. Most people in America would prefer less taxes and less government, not more! Why? Because they can't afford more government and more government regulation. They believe the government gets enough money and that it just has to get more streamlined and effective at using their tax dollars. The average person would tell you our government is inefficient and bloated... and they are spot on the mark! The average person is also very close to center, politically speaking. Not many people are center anymore. They have gravitated to extremes. Left has shifted so far left, it's gone clear past Liberal to Socialist. What used to be Right is now Center. Far Right is still Far Right, but Right is lumped in with it. Maybe that's why you think all Conservatives are Far Right.
With so many Liberals making up the majority as you purport, then tell me this: Why is FOX News #1 in news? ??? I'm not a FOX fan by the way. They taint the news like everyone else, but more people agree with their spin, than the lamestream media. If most people were Liberal, like yourself, then MSNBC would be #1 in ratings. It's the media outlet of choice for White House propaganda.
SCPO, you use liberal buzz words like "deprive", and you speak this vain shit about there being no hope for changing things at the ballotbox because the majority of people are no longer conservative. I think you're full of crap and as out of touch as your fraudulent leader.
A whole lot more people are Conservative than you understand. Most people in America would prefer less taxes and less government, not more! Why? Because they can't afford more government and more government regulation. They believe the government gets enough money and that it just has to get more streamlined and effective at using their tax dollars. The average person would tell you our government is inefficient and bloated... and they are spot on the mark! The average person is also very close to center, politically speaking. Not many people are center anymore. They have gravitated to extremes. Left has shifted so far left, it's gone clear past Liberal to Socialist. What used to be Right is now Center. Far Right is still Far Right, but Right is lumped in with it. Maybe that's why you think all Conservatives are Far Right.
With so many Liberals making up the majority as you purport, then tell me this: Why is FOX News #1 in news? ??? I'm not a FOX fan by the way. They taint the news like everyone else, but more people agree with their spin, than the lamestream media. If most people were Liberal, like yourself, then MSNBC would be #1 in ratings. It's the media outlet of choice for White House propaganda.
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SCPO Joshua I
The majority of Americans put this government in place. You can argue all day long about it, but the ballot box proves you wrong, in the exact way the founding fathers you so revere set in place.
You are so out of touch with reality you cannot see that the world around you has changed. America is no longer a conservative nation. We went over the cliff probably over two decades ago and there's no going back. You evidently weren't paying attention then and now are sticking your head in the sand and pretending it didn't happen -- while you call for the military to take unconstitutional actions to "fix" it somehow. You realize, of course, that the a military coup would remove the Constitution as the law of the land, right? There is no provision, anywhere in the document, for the military to do anything in the political process. At that point, you would be living under a military dictatorship. There would be blood in the streets, riots everywhere, cities burning, people dying and dying and dying some more -- and to what end? To end our way of life? To remove your freedoms to even discuss political action? There's no more bill of rights under and unconstitutional military dictatorship. The military won't simply remove the president and ask you to elect a new one -- and if they did, the one who gets elected would make Obama look like a right wing conservative. In fact -- that's probably the only way that the communist Bernie Sanders could actually get elected President.
You pontificate about "most people", but "most people" may pay lip service to some ideal, but when it comes down to it, "most people" vote for their free shit and don't give a fuck about anything else.
Fox News is #1 because they're entertaining and they hire beautiful female anchors. Period. There's no reflection on how "conservative" the American public is in those numbers.
You are so out of touch with reality you cannot see that the world around you has changed. America is no longer a conservative nation. We went over the cliff probably over two decades ago and there's no going back. You evidently weren't paying attention then and now are sticking your head in the sand and pretending it didn't happen -- while you call for the military to take unconstitutional actions to "fix" it somehow. You realize, of course, that the a military coup would remove the Constitution as the law of the land, right? There is no provision, anywhere in the document, for the military to do anything in the political process. At that point, you would be living under a military dictatorship. There would be blood in the streets, riots everywhere, cities burning, people dying and dying and dying some more -- and to what end? To end our way of life? To remove your freedoms to even discuss political action? There's no more bill of rights under and unconstitutional military dictatorship. The military won't simply remove the president and ask you to elect a new one -- and if they did, the one who gets elected would make Obama look like a right wing conservative. In fact -- that's probably the only way that the communist Bernie Sanders could actually get elected President.
You pontificate about "most people", but "most people" may pay lip service to some ideal, but when it comes down to it, "most people" vote for their free shit and don't give a fuck about anything else.
Fox News is #1 because they're entertaining and they hire beautiful female anchors. Period. There's no reflection on how "conservative" the American public is in those numbers.
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Suspended Profile
No, I wouldn't commit treason by participating in an unlawful and immoral military coup. It's rather depressing to see that so many members of this forum has failed The U.S. Constitution 101 course.
Capt Jeff S.
Equally depressing is having a Constitutionally unqualified (p)Resident ruining [oops, running!] this nation! I can think of an Executive, who falsely claimed to be a Constitutional professor and who wipes his butt with our Constitution. There are also almost 535 folks up on the Hill that failed the U.S. Constitution 101 course along with about 1/2 the Supreme Court justices. Few in our government take their responsibilities seriously... for if they did, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
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I would prefer that Congress places the order for our Military to do so but, Either way, Enough is enough.
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What high crime and treason has the Obama's Administration done? I keep hearing about impeachment, but nothing of substance as to why he should be impeach. A coup will never and can never occur in the U.S. simply because there is too many federal agency creating check and balance. Please entertain us with some conspiracy theories.
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Capt Jeff S.
Take your pick. And remember, Nixon resigned to avoid impeachment over lying about 18 1/2 minutes of erased tape.
John Hawkins - 5 High Crimes And Misdemeanors For Which Obama Deserves To Be Impeached
5 High Crimes And Misdemeanors For Which Obama Deserves To Be Impeached
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Capt Jeff S.
...
Obama Charged With Criminal Terrorism & Crimes Against Humanity
I’ve been writing for over a year that Barack Hussein Obama is guilty of a number of crimes, including treason, because of his continued support of Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood. Former Egyptian President and his gang of Muslim extremists terrorized Egypt’s Coptic Christians and anyone else that disagreed with their dictatorial regime.
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if i was ordered to i would have to remove Obama it is not right to leave 33K Vetrains out on the streets to take in 10K refuges. It just is not right and what would happenn if Terrorists act like a refuge and then infiltrate are nation because of this move that obama is makeing. The people are saying no to protect there selfs. If this does happen then we might have a war on are front steps its not right. Obama needs to think of this outcome.
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Capt Jeff S. these generals who are advocating this should be recalled to AD and court martialed
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Capt Jeff S.
LTC Bink Romanick Those court-martialing these generals would be "Yes Men" who were appointed to replace generals who were forced into retirement because they didn't sign on to supporting Gov't Tyranny.
Is our gov't legitimate or has it lost its legitimacy when our Executive:
* appoints justices that support his Progressive agenda to run interference for him?
* selectively enforces the laws passed by Congress only enforcing those he agrees with?
* routinely bypasses Congress and pushes his own legislation through saying the people can't wait any longer?
* legislates from the Executive with his pen and phone?
* runs his own covert operations through this State Dept and gets our Ambassador killed, then invents a false narrative cover story to try and distance himself from it?
* goes an entire term without a budget, which is one of a President's Constitutional duties.
* makes foreign policy deals that he has no authority to make?
* has his AG dismiss cases in which members of his Administration have abused their governmental authority to go after groups opposed to the Administration and its egregious policies?
* and taunts Congress to do something about it?
Is our gov't legitimate or has it lost its legitimacy when our Executive:
* appoints justices that support his Progressive agenda to run interference for him?
* selectively enforces the laws passed by Congress only enforcing those he agrees with?
* routinely bypasses Congress and pushes his own legislation through saying the people can't wait any longer?
* legislates from the Executive with his pen and phone?
* runs his own covert operations through this State Dept and gets our Ambassador killed, then invents a false narrative cover story to try and distance himself from it?
* goes an entire term without a budget, which is one of a President's Constitutional duties.
* makes foreign policy deals that he has no authority to make?
* has his AG dismiss cases in which members of his Administration have abused their governmental authority to go after groups opposed to the Administration and its egregious policies?
* and taunts Congress to do something about it?
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