Posted on Jun 12, 2017
In today's modern military, would there be any benefit to an enlisted structure similar to that of the past?
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I believe that most, if not all of us, are familiar with the old army enlisted rank structure where one could go their entire career without ever becoming an NCO, but still make it up through the paygrades. We all have known people who were great at their jobs but not fit to lead. Is there any benefit to bringing back such an enlisted rank structure?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 246
As one who served in the green suit Army, I had the opportunity to serve with some senior specialists. They all served in technical fields but could be converted to hard stripes if their position required it. They didn't serve in combat arms unless they were maintenence positions. I didn't see a loss of NCO positions for any of the senior specialists' promotions. Most of those who were promoted above SP5 were in MOSs that were technical in nature and were designated 30 rather than 40 MOS trailers. My MOS 96B, actually split at E6 with tactical assignments being 96B40 SSG and strategic being 96B30 SP6. This later changed to 96B30 for both ranks. I saw no real shortcomings in the specialist ranks. It was a way of letting people advance in rank as they continued to serve. By not having them serve in leadership positions they were available at their duty positions pretty much 24/7. There were certainly advantages to that. Also most of the senior specialists that I served with were drawing proficiency pay based on their technical expertise. It also eliminated the dilema of more chiefs than indians. But times do change and so do the needs of the Army. I don't expect any changes on the horizon.
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Yes on specialists grades up to e-6, and no on the technical grade because specialists already cover that. As far as e-7 SFC, I would have more respect for SFC then for a spec 7
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A bunch of crybabies.
As a L/Cpl I ran an entire engineer section, while my SSgt was at his career development school.
As you can tell, I have strong opinions. That kept me out of being promoted.
But, I didn't go crying about it.
As a L/Cpl I ran an entire engineer section, while my SSgt was at his career development school.
As you can tell, I have strong opinions. That kept me out of being promoted.
But, I didn't go crying about it.
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SGT Joseph Gunderson
I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with the system as it sits. I'm just wondering if improvement can be made with a variation on an old system. You may not be "crying" about it, but could you have been better served with a variation of this system? As a Marine your promotions work a bit differently than the army's so I don't know.
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GySgt (Join to see)
Trying to get a better understanding of why you didn't get promoted. I don't understand how you filling a SNCO billet hindered you from being promoted? I don't know how long his career development school was but did you not have ample time to complete the range, PFT, and your MCIs/MARINENET courses before or after he attended the course? Did your GySgt or MSgt above the SSgt not know that you were standing in for him?
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LCpl Troy Gwyn
GySgt (Join to see) Wow! What part of strong opinions did you not get?
Since you can't seen to grasp the concept, I'll spell it out for you. I had no problem calling a dumba** GySgt a dumba**.
Since you can't seen to grasp the concept, I'll spell it out for you. I had no problem calling a dumba** GySgt a dumba**.
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GySgt (Join to see)
LCpl Troy Gwyn - For a minute I thought you meant that you were very proficient at your job and that you were being wronged by your command. I too also have strong opinions and I voice them. I think there is a time to speak your strong opinions and other times I think you need to figure out how to convince people senior to you, to do what you need them to do for the benefit of your Marines and unit. Sounds like you always had the best interest of your Marines and unit in mind.
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I look at the specialist grades of the Army and see how high they could possibly go.
And I looked at WO grades. I was getting around and seen there were some Specialists that had been picked to go to Hyde Park at the Culinary Institute and do a semester.. Some decided to not re-up and then go back to CIA(culinary Institute of America)and use their G.I. Bill and then re- enter as a W.O. and run a Food Service program in the Army.. in Mt case it’s out of reach as I’m 65 In a couple weeks . Back when I was a young man
This opportunity wasn’t around (about 35
Years ago). One other prob would
Of held me back even if it were.. my
TBI.. Wven though I got back in the AF..
demands of the Army are much different.
And I looked at WO grades. I was getting around and seen there were some Specialists that had been picked to go to Hyde Park at the Culinary Institute and do a semester.. Some decided to not re-up and then go back to CIA(culinary Institute of America)and use their G.I. Bill and then re- enter as a W.O. and run a Food Service program in the Army.. in Mt case it’s out of reach as I’m 65 In a couple weeks . Back when I was a young man
This opportunity wasn’t around (about 35
Years ago). One other prob would
Of held me back even if it were.. my
TBI.. Wven though I got back in the AF..
demands of the Army are much different.
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In technical fields such as the 94 series it certainly would be advantageous.
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SGT Joseph Gunderson
This is really my view. Clerks, technicians, and specialty MOSs don't necessarily need more than one or two NCOs to supervise them. I also feel that by not forcing these techs to go through boards or the whole up and out deal we can retain qualified and proficient techs without keeping them down in lower ranks.
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As I recall all those specialist ranks acted as if they were noncoms. Most were put in leadership positions of an NCO and treated as such by officers. Just saying.
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SGM Frank Marsh
been there, done that. back in the day, many of us "specialists (E5/E6) stepped up because of the lack of NCOs in most cases and in some cases the inefficiency of the NCOs.
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I see no benefit to some of the past grades that gave no rise into NCO positions. Its nice to have people capable of certain tasks and being good at it but We also need leaders. Training and experience should produce NCOs not just people who are just there in their little corner and content with that. Most organizations upward mobility is into leadership, why should any branch of the Military service not follow that same logical path ?
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Definately, when I was first promoted to Sergeant, I was not ready. I was 23 years old and damned good at my job. I was technically and tactically proficient. But, I was not ready to lead. I was lucky enough to have an awesome squad leader and fellow NCO's that helped mold me into someone that was ready to lead. But it took time. I could have probably better served as a SP5 for a while before pinning on Sergeant stripes.
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
Perhaps if SP5 were as high as the grade went rather than bring back SP6 to SP9 as an example. In a ceiling such as that it may give more time to develop through maturity although sometimes being thrown into a leadership position You have to learn fast and there can be a lot of trail and error. Four other branches of the service do not have specialist grades at all though and seem to do fine.
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SGT Eric Hawkins
Definately! And probably put a limit on how long one could remain a SPC5 before being made a Sergeant. The only other situations in which a higher SPC rank would make sense would be in MOS's in which multiple NCO'S are not required. (I.e.: Food service, mechanics, transportation, etc.)
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