Posted on Jan 21, 2015
SSG Gerhard S.
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With all the talk about "income inequality", and "fair shakes" and "fair shots", what is your perspective?
Posted in these groups: 39c21dd Fairness
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Responses: 11
LCDR Chaplain Corps Officer
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The American Dream is not about equality of income but rather equality of opportunity. Anyone is supposed to be able to come here and, with hard work, make a better life for themselves.
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SGT Jim Z.
SGT Jim Z.
11 y
You are absolutely correct Sir.
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COL Jean (John) F. B.
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This is just another liberal talking point to cause divisions in the population that further their cause.

We do not live in a perfect society and, therefore, there are abuses and unfortunate situations. That's life. No amount of social engineering, distribution of wealth, affirmative action programs, etc. will change human behavior will create the utopia that liberals envision.

The formulas for success is still working hard and doing the best you can do with what you have.

It galls me to see the President of the United States and Oprah Winfrey, for example, decry the very system that got them where they are. They should be shouting from the rooftops about the opportunities that exist in this country that results in people from all walks of life, background, races, and sex to achieve their dreams.
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1SG Civil Affairs Specialist
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Work hard, and your income will equal your potential.
Be grateful for what you have, and be thankful your needs are met due to the sweat of your brow.
Wait for a handout, and it will never be enough.
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Income Inequality? What are your thoughts?
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SPC Christopher Smith
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I do not agree 100% with the two options, I believe the rich deserve to pay more. Yes you made it, but they should pay their fair share, and not be given as many tax breaks. More tax breaks do not create more jobs, sorry to burst your bubble. I agree that the economy should be EO, but I think Government should lean more in the protections of the people and not the corporations. Business live and die, and a new business comes up to replace it, bailing corporations out only places the burden on the people and extends the slow death of a giant.
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SSG Gerhard S.
SSG Gerhard S.
11 y
SPC Christopher Smith , I agree with the idea that we should not subsidize corporations, or bail them out when they act irresponsibly or fail to adjust to changing market decisions. It sends the wrong signal that failure should be rewarded.

For the converse reason it makes me wonder why you wish to punish those who made the right decisions and became wealthy by adjusting to changing market conditions, or who provide a service or product that people are willing to freely pay for.

So, First, one could argue that even under a flat tax the wealthy WOULD pay more because they make more., and under our graduated tax system the top 50% of taxpayers already pay well over 95% of all income taxes.

Second, given this information, how much more would you require the wealthy to pay? What percentage of their earnings should they be forced to pay?
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SSG Gerhard S.
SSG Gerhard S.
11 y
Also, though you say you believe the market should be EO, the fact that you want to punish those who succeed by making them pay more means you wish to make the market less EO by taking away from the successful the capital they can use to create more wealth, and yet more jobs. Using the government to take away from the wealthy does not make the poor any richer, history has proven as much.
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SGT Jim Z.
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So Representative Tom McClintock of California allegedly has come out and said the minimum wage is for minorities and people not worth more. I know if it was not for minimum wages were not there people would not prosper for example I know when I was making minimum wage in high school I wanted to make more and it was a catalyst to me and I am sure several other folks.
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SSG Gerhard S.
SSG Gerhard S.
11 y
SGT Jim Z. , You make a great point. The minimum wage is NOT a goal anybody should seek to obtain. And the very argument you make, that it is a motivation to better oneself, to learn the responsibility of working hard, showing up on time, relating well with customers, co-workers, and management in order to earn more responsibility, competency, and pay. The same argument can be made AGAINST the minimum wage, for the minimum wage excludes from the workforce those with even lower skills, or those with a checkered past who would wish to prove themselves again in the marketplace of jobs.

Also, regarding Representative McClintock, there's no reason to allege anything... here's what he said.....

Only [raise the minimum wage] if you want to rip the first rung in the ladder of opportunity for teenagers, for minorities, for people who are trying to get into the job market for their first job.
"The minimum wage doesn't support a family. We all know that. It’s not supposed to support a family. The minimum wage is that first job when you have no skills, no experience, no working history. That’s how you get into the job market, that’s how you develop that experience, develop that work record, get your first raise, then your next raise, then your promotion. That's the first rung of opportunity.

If your labor as an unskilled person just entering the workforce is worth say $7 an hour at a job and the minimum wage is $10, you have just been made permanently unemployable. That first rung of the economic ladder has been ripped out and you can’t get on it. That is a tragedy."

So, he didn't call anybody worthless, but he did, correctly state that some, inexperienced, or lesser educated ARE worth less (pay) in the marketplace of jobs than someone more experienced as described above. Regarding minorities, unfortunately, it IS in many cases, inner-city minorities who have been dismally failed by their education systems, and who are sadly a step or two behind many others, educationally speaking. That is the tragedy to which he is referring.

So, Economically speaking the Representative is on solid ground, factually.
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SGT Jim Z.
SGT Jim Z.
11 y
Reason I used allege was that I did not find non-special interest group website i.e. CNN, Foxnews, local newspapers, etc... His statement can be and probably being taken out of context like most sound bytes. I agree minimum wage normally is for entry level or lower skilled workers but if we did have minimum wage we would be no better than the sweatshops of Southeast Asia.
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LTC Latin Teacher
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I want to create a society where everyone truly has an equal starting point. I don't want redistribution. I don't want outrageous taxes. I do, however, want a society that actually allows the least among us to have an equal chance at increasing his/her station in this country. We don't have that, and a lot of people (certainly not all) think that any attempt to do so is an insidious liberal plot. I can speak only for myself and those friends of mine who share my beliefs, this has more to do with our Christian faith and belief in the intent of our founding documents than it does with any agenda or plot. So, I am for any increased funding for low-income areas. I am for community outreach efforts. I am for free-lunch programs. I am for many assistance programs because I know that most of our poor are the working poor. The vast majority are discontent with where they are, but see very little options vis-a-vis getting out of their place.

Lastly, I don't concern myself with the leeches and bottom feeders. They will exist. They will abuse the system. They are the statistical outliers and not the norm.
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SSG Gerhard S.
SSG Gerhard S.
11 y
LTC (Join to see) Hello Neighbor! You make some excellent points, but I'm a little fuzzy on the methods that should be used to create this wonderful society you describe. First of all, I agree, the fringe "bottom feeders" don't merit concern. The problem, though with social programs is that they have repeatedly proven that they don't work. We've pumped TRILLIONS into social programs and have kept poverty levels steady since LBJ's "Great society" programs began. I often hear that education is the answer.... We've had the Federal government (Unconstitutionally) involved in education since Carter was in office, and we already spend more than ALMOST any other country per capita on education with dismal results. The problem with social programs is that they have the unfortunate, though consistent and predictable effect of de-motivating productiveness. FAR too many people are content to take less for "free" than to work hard for more. This is proven by the numbers which show an ever increasing number of people on Federal and State programs, even when unemployment rates are low. A while back, Great Britain required EVERYBODY receiving governmental disability payments to report for a medical disability update physical in order to keep their benefits. Just over 50% didn't even show up and lost their benefits. I'll leave it up to you to fill in the blanks.

I don't think social programs are necessarily bad, but I do know that the Constitution does not allow for the Federal government's involvement in any such programs. So, any such programs belong to State and local governments, or more appropriately to private charities. That being said, we should move away from the idea of perpetual assistance more in the direction of job training to allow for a future of self-sustainment.

Simply pumping money into low income areas en-masse has been the modus operandi for decades and has proven itself a failure. And as so many poor areas are minority inner city areas, much of the focus on promoting social programs have been in these areas. Unfortunately these programs have literally destroyed the families in these areas, most notably the black family where more than half of all black children grow up in a home with no father. (growing up in a home with no father, by the way is the number one common denominator among EVERY population group in our prisons) What is needed is investment in individuals to promote needed skills, jobs and esteem.

Until we start treating people as individuals instead of groups or classes; until we start putting education above politics or teacher's unions; Until we stop requiring social engineering classes over math, science, reading, and technical skills, we will continue to fail.
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SSG Gerhard S.
SSG Gerhard S.
11 y
That being said, I would argue that the American dream IS still available for those who WANT it. Dr. Ben Carson's story is a wonderful telling of how strong parenting, lead him to WANT to do well. He came from a poor family, and his mother worked multiple jobs to pay the bills, and he became one of the most respected pediatric brain surgeons in the nation without a perpetual ride on social programs. The problem with many of our social programs is that they become generational, they become a way of life, that is passed on from parent to children. To far too many, these programs become the way of life, not the way out of poverty.
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SFC Platoon Sergeant
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If income inequality were truly an issue, wouldn’t businesses hire only women, because they could pay them less? It seems to me lower wages across the board would be good for the business’ bottom line.
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SPC James Mcneil
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I remember reading a quote, and I've seen it attributed to various people, so I don't know who said it. But it goes something like this. We will never see income equality as long as there's so much effort inequality.

That's a broad statement, and I know it doesn't apply to everyone. But it does apply. There are many people that are enjoying free rides off the sweat of another person's brow. Am I rich? Not yet. But I don't believe it's greed to want to keep what you've earned.
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SGT Jim Z.
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I do not think it is the government's job to tax people into equality. Yes, it sucks that income inequality exists but that is life which has winners and losers. Some people take shots and get lucky and make out like gold while others have bad breaks that they may or may not recover but again it is not the government's responsibility to police this issue.
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SSgt Forensic Meteorological Consultant
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I am all for it. I like being diminished...lol
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