Posted on Jul 19, 2020
Is a college degree required to become a command sergeant major in the army?
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I’m just wondering if it’s possible to become a CSM (E-9) in the army without a degree.
Rank
College
Enlisted
Bachelors Degree
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 16
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I have known several SGM/CSMs without a degree, if you are asking just for general knowledge. If you are asking because you want to make E9 someday, you should probably get a degree. Times have changed; some senior officials have been calling for it to become a requirement. Even though it isn't mandatory now and may never be, anything that makes you stand out positively against your peers can only help you.
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Arthur Lamm
I agree with this and I think that this is not the most important of what will be necessary, but education will be necessary in any case.
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
Arthur Lamm - ....
"EDUCATION"?...YES.!
But College Is No GUARANTEE Of It.
I'm A Self Educated JUNIOR High School DROP OUT.
THAT Being Said, I've Had College Grads Working For Me.
When I Was The Director of Purchasing At F.M.C. In Indiana.
I Had To FIRE One For Being Incompetent And Retrained The Others;
So They Could Actually DO The Job They Were HIRED For...
Give Me A Guy With Just Average Intelligence, But A LOT Of Curiosity.
And I'll Show YOU One Of Your BEST Employees.... He'll Be A SUCCESS.
"EDUCATION"?...YES.!
But College Is No GUARANTEE Of It.
I'm A Self Educated JUNIOR High School DROP OUT.
THAT Being Said, I've Had College Grads Working For Me.
When I Was The Director of Purchasing At F.M.C. In Indiana.
I Had To FIRE One For Being Incompetent And Retrained The Others;
So They Could Actually DO The Job They Were HIRED For...
Give Me A Guy With Just Average Intelligence, But A LOT Of Curiosity.
And I'll Show YOU One Of Your BEST Employees.... He'll Be A SUCCESS.
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
Frank Anderson - .... Excuse My sarcasm, But HERE It COMES.
College Degrees Don't Amount To SH*T.. Degrees Are No Guarantee Of Intelligence OR Education....I'm Sure You've Heard The Term "Educated Idiot"?
Well, That's Where They Come From, And We Can't Send Them Back, Either...
I'm Sure We've ALL Worked For One Or Two....
So Nope, On Requiring A Degree To Become An Officer OR A Leader
And Another NOPE, Just For Chuckles: Just Give Me An Applicant With Average Intelligence And A Lot Of Curiosity, And That's MY Next Employee.... "YOU'RE HIRED"!!
College Degrees Don't Amount To SH*T.. Degrees Are No Guarantee Of Intelligence OR Education....I'm Sure You've Heard The Term "Educated Idiot"?
Well, That's Where They Come From, And We Can't Send Them Back, Either...
I'm Sure We've ALL Worked For One Or Two....
So Nope, On Requiring A Degree To Become An Officer OR A Leader
And Another NOPE, Just For Chuckles: Just Give Me An Applicant With Average Intelligence And A Lot Of Curiosity, And That's MY Next Employee.... "YOU'RE HIRED"!!
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
FRANK...Grab On, Here We Go....I'm A Jr. High School DROP OUT...
With A Formal Public Education Of 8th GRADE... When I Was Living In Panama At 14-16, And Lived With One Of My Brothers; I Attended "El Instituto Pan-Americano",
Beginning In Their 9th GRADE......They Excelled In Business Education..
Mainly Business Ownership & Management... I Absolutely LOVED IT...
But FAILED 2 Years In a ROW ... I Learned More In That School, In 2 Years By FAILING Than My Former Public American Education All Put Together...
With An 8th Grade Education, I Somewhat Lied My Azz Off To Get Into The USAF; Where I Continued My Education: Mostly Through U.S.A.F.I. & A Couple Of Outside College Programs......My Resumes Were A True Works Of Art, But At Least My Name Address & Phone Number WERE Correct...
I Became The Purchasing Department Director For F.MC..,Of It's Indiana Purchasing Dept.
Fire Truck Division, In 3 Years, By-Passing Assistant Director; Transferred In From Michigan, .....Then I Was In Business For 27 Years; Sold Them & Retired At 56.
I BELIEVE. But Don't Actually KNOW, I Have At Least An Equivalent Education Of Having A Masters In Business Administration....But Probably Even Better.....
I've Had Some Of Them Working For Me... But I Wasn't Too Impressed..
Fired On For Being Incompetent (Refused To Follow Directions And Repeated The Same Mistakes). I Re-trained The Others To Do Their Jobs Better, And Quite Frankly, The Did; Once I Got Things Running The Way They Should, We Had All Had Fun & Enjoyed Our Jobs Together.
Give Me Anyone of Average Intelligence And A Lot Of Curiosity,
I'll Present To You A Person Whom Almost CAN'T Fail......But You'd Be Amazed At How Few Of Them Are Around. ..Our Schools Teach "Working Together To Accomplish A Goal".
And That Could Be Why So FEW Are LEADERS......
With A Formal Public Education Of 8th GRADE... When I Was Living In Panama At 14-16, And Lived With One Of My Brothers; I Attended "El Instituto Pan-Americano",
Beginning In Their 9th GRADE......They Excelled In Business Education..
Mainly Business Ownership & Management... I Absolutely LOVED IT...
But FAILED 2 Years In a ROW ... I Learned More In That School, In 2 Years By FAILING Than My Former Public American Education All Put Together...
With An 8th Grade Education, I Somewhat Lied My Azz Off To Get Into The USAF; Where I Continued My Education: Mostly Through U.S.A.F.I. & A Couple Of Outside College Programs......My Resumes Were A True Works Of Art, But At Least My Name Address & Phone Number WERE Correct...
I Became The Purchasing Department Director For F.MC..,Of It's Indiana Purchasing Dept.
Fire Truck Division, In 3 Years, By-Passing Assistant Director; Transferred In From Michigan, .....Then I Was In Business For 27 Years; Sold Them & Retired At 56.
I BELIEVE. But Don't Actually KNOW, I Have At Least An Equivalent Education Of Having A Masters In Business Administration....But Probably Even Better.....
I've Had Some Of Them Working For Me... But I Wasn't Too Impressed..
Fired On For Being Incompetent (Refused To Follow Directions And Repeated The Same Mistakes). I Re-trained The Others To Do Their Jobs Better, And Quite Frankly, The Did; Once I Got Things Running The Way They Should, We Had All Had Fun & Enjoyed Our Jobs Together.
Give Me Anyone of Average Intelligence And A Lot Of Curiosity,
I'll Present To You A Person Whom Almost CAN'T Fail......But You'd Be Amazed At How Few Of Them Are Around. ..Our Schools Teach "Working Together To Accomplish A Goal".
And That Could Be Why So FEW Are LEADERS......
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Absolutely not. In fact, I know several CSMs who were working on their Associate degree while a CSM. However, it will make you much more competitive towards being selected for SGM and CSM, ahead of your peers.
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MAJ Byron Oyler
These online degree factories are watering down what a bachelors degree amounts to and I am not seeing the growth in people that you used to. A great SRNCO and officer will compliment each other in ways never taught in school and I feel a SRNCO obtaining a degree from an online degree mill will if anything weaken that bond and pieces to the puxxle. Now preparing the CSM for the post retirement job is another complete discussion and nothing beats experience and formal education for those higher level civilian executive positions.
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There is no requirement. However, there has been a huge push in the last 20 years to start on education earlier and earlier. An associates is fairly easily attainable prior to E8. After that a Bachelors/Masters is really on the individuals motivation and available time. In any case it would make one more competative to have some sort of degree prior to being eligeable for even E8. Once selected for E9, there are multiple ways to increase education while attending the Academy.
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
Sorry For Referring To You As "Sargent"...
I'm An Old Timer 1961 - 1965 ~ And Since THAT Time,
Things & Titles Have Changed Quite A Lot..
In Fact, In 1965 I Was An A2C, ~ Now I'd Be An A1C...... Go Figure..
SO You Can Tell, It WAS Accidental;
And Has Nothing To Do With The Respect I May Have For You As A
"Command Sergeant Major",... I'm Not Even Sure If That Rank Was Around In 1965...
Come To Think Of It; I'm Surprised I'm Still Around In 2023..
Nothings Changed But The Title, And One HELL Of a Lot MORE Money....
In 1965 Was Knocking Down A Whopping $173.00 PER MONTH In 1965 ...LOL
~~ Once Again, I Apologize For My Making That Error. ~~
But The Fact Remains; "Having A College Degree" Doesn't Mean "They're Educated"
I'm An Old Timer 1961 - 1965 ~ And Since THAT Time,
Things & Titles Have Changed Quite A Lot..
In Fact, In 1965 I Was An A2C, ~ Now I'd Be An A1C...... Go Figure..
SO You Can Tell, It WAS Accidental;
And Has Nothing To Do With The Respect I May Have For You As A
"Command Sergeant Major",... I'm Not Even Sure If That Rank Was Around In 1965...
Come To Think Of It; I'm Surprised I'm Still Around In 2023..
Nothings Changed But The Title, And One HELL Of a Lot MORE Money....
In 1965 Was Knocking Down A Whopping $173.00 PER MONTH In 1965 ...LOL
~~ Once Again, I Apologize For My Making That Error. ~~
But The Fact Remains; "Having A College Degree" Doesn't Mean "They're Educated"
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
CSM Darieus ZaGara - .....
Seriously, There Are A Lot Of Additional Stripes Which Weren't Around In 65 Also.
It Use To Be, "From Shoulder To Elbow", Now They Go All The Way Down To Their-az.
LOL.
Seriously, There Are A Lot Of Additional Stripes Which Weren't Around In 65 Also.
It Use To Be, "From Shoulder To Elbow", Now They Go All The Way Down To Their-az.
LOL.
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CSM Darieus ZaGara
A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney Oh I get it. The SPC ranks were all still present when I enlisted. CSM was a work in progress from the mid 60’s to the mid 70’s. I think the rank was issued in 67 and it took another decade to shape the duties.
Anyway, enjoy your weekend.
Anyway, enjoy your weekend.
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PFC (Join to see), as many have already stated the answer currently is no. However like they said things are changing.
There are educational things in the works through the enlisted Professional Military Education (PME). BLC (new name for PLDC or WL ) feeds ALC ( new name for BNCOC), which feeds SLC ( new name for ANCOC), which feeds MLC ( new name for 1SG course). Each one builds on the other both with military knowledge and college coursework. The plan is for you to earn a Bachelors degree when you graduate MLC. I believe this plan was fully implemented last year, but I have yet to see the results.
There are educational things in the works through the enlisted Professional Military Education (PME). BLC (new name for PLDC or WL ) feeds ALC ( new name for BNCOC), which feeds SLC ( new name for ANCOC), which feeds MLC ( new name for 1SG course). Each one builds on the other both with military knowledge and college coursework. The plan is for you to earn a Bachelors degree when you graduate MLC. I believe this plan was fully implemented last year, but I have yet to see the results.
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PFC (Join to see) I agree with CPT (Join to see). Obtaining a degree will be helpful in your military and civilian careers. I served four years and afterwards, I worked full time and went to school full time. Once I obtained my degree, I started a 33 year career at my dream job.
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
And As Others Should Be Advised, If They Don't Already Know,
"If You'e Doing What You Love, You'll Never WORK Another Day In Your Life".
I Too, Was Fortunate For This To Have Happened.... And, Putting It Mildly,
It Was SO GREAT, I Could Hardly BELIEVE It..!!
Careers Are GREAT,
While WORK Sucks..
"If You'e Doing What You Love, You'll Never WORK Another Day In Your Life".
I Too, Was Fortunate For This To Have Happened.... And, Putting It Mildly,
It Was SO GREAT, I Could Hardly BELIEVE It..!!
Careers Are GREAT,
While WORK Sucks..
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No it’s not. But many CSMs get degrees for promotion points. Degrees like “weapons of mass destruction” from AMU. Very useful degree to have in the workforce I tell ya
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Many years ago you would find most SGMs/CSMs without degrees. However as SFC Blount mentions, times are different now than they were then. If you want to set yourself apart from your peers, by all means get the degree. It also depends on your MOS. Some on the promotion boards may not view having a degree as a necessity, while others may. Look at this way, you have one promotion slot remaining, two Soldiers have made the "cut", all things are very similar between them with regards to experience and being the right positions needed for promotion except one Soldier has a degree and the other does not, who would you choose? Additionally, in the civilian sector that degree will help you tremendously. Take this from personal and professional experience. I did not have my degrees while in the Army, but after I retired I now have a Bachelor's and a Master's degree. The Master's in my new career field puts me not too far ahead of my colleagues. If you want to get promoted, do the best job you can and seek to improve yourself everyday. This is not just for your immediate future, but for the long term too. Also, consider this, if you are active duty why not take advantage of the tuition reimbursement that allows you to get your degree at a much more reasonable cost without student debt like those in the civilian sector? I hope this helps if you are contemplating whether or not to take the advantage of college.
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
I Spotted THIS Immediately When You Said"
~~~ "if you are active duty why not take advantage of the tuition reimbursement that allows you to get your degree at a much more reasonable cost"~~
I Sort Of Sneaked Into The USAF With An 8th GRADE "Experience......Because A 10th Was Minimum Accepted At The Time...I Immediately Took And Passed My My H.S GED. And Latched Onto The FREE Education Through U.S.A.F.I.....
I'll Shorten This:
Was Purchasing Department Director For FMC In Indiana ~~ A Business Owner For Over 27 Years ~~ RETIRED At 56......
Took EVERY Business Course I Could Complete Within My 4 Year Enlistment ~ Along With A Few Others,... And Kept On Studying Until Just 2 Months Before My Honorary From The USAF.
I OWE Almost EVERYTHING To The USAF & The U.S.A.F.I. Programs I Completed ..
PEOPLE.? TAKE The Available Free Programs...Their Value Is More Than Gold.
And, I Civilian Life, We Could't Afford Them; But In The Military, They're FREE..
And Free Is The Best Price Available ANYWHERE On Earth...
~~~ "if you are active duty why not take advantage of the tuition reimbursement that allows you to get your degree at a much more reasonable cost"~~
I Sort Of Sneaked Into The USAF With An 8th GRADE "Experience......Because A 10th Was Minimum Accepted At The Time...I Immediately Took And Passed My My H.S GED. And Latched Onto The FREE Education Through U.S.A.F.I.....
I'll Shorten This:
Was Purchasing Department Director For FMC In Indiana ~~ A Business Owner For Over 27 Years ~~ RETIRED At 56......
Took EVERY Business Course I Could Complete Within My 4 Year Enlistment ~ Along With A Few Others,... And Kept On Studying Until Just 2 Months Before My Honorary From The USAF.
I OWE Almost EVERYTHING To The USAF & The U.S.A.F.I. Programs I Completed ..
PEOPLE.? TAKE The Available Free Programs...Their Value Is More Than Gold.
And, I Civilian Life, We Could't Afford Them; But In The Military, They're FREE..
And Free Is The Best Price Available ANYWHERE On Earth...
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It's not mandatory but highly encouraged. Plus if you plan on staying in until you can make CSM, you have plenty of time to earn a degree
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I joined the army to pay for college 35 years ago. And I never finished, despite good intentions. It worked out ok for me, but I’d never suggest going without a degree to my kids. I did well in the Army and made E5 when I was AD and E6 in the reserves. I got out of the reserves once I started advancing in my civilian role - a sales job. Had I only realized at the time how important a degree was. Pretty soon I was woking, paying bills, and then had a family. I didn’t have the time to dedicate to a degree. Or so I thought. Pretty soon I got to the point where I was doing ok financially and figured I had done ok without a degree. And I had, and I was definitely l.u.c.k.y. Having said that, there were layoffs in my civilian career from time to time, and other folks that were younger and had less time than I did were getting promoted ahead of me. Honestly, that lack of promotion velocity probably cost me a million bucks over the last 25-30 years.
If I could do it over, I would have used all that free time I had in the peacetime army to get multiple degrees. It’s easy to look back with regrets, and I’m not doing that as my life turned out pretty good and I’ve got a great family, great kids, very successful kids in college, and recently retired to live near the beach. So, yeah, things worked out ok for me. But I’m definitely an exception. Had I to do it over, I’d have knocked out as much schooling while I was in the army (heck, I mighta stayed in, would have for sure done the officer route) and I’d save money.
If you’re not deployed and have any semblance of free time? Don’t screw around, go to school. It’ll pay major dividends later in life - in or out of the military.
If I could do it over, I would have used all that free time I had in the peacetime army to get multiple degrees. It’s easy to look back with regrets, and I’m not doing that as my life turned out pretty good and I’ve got a great family, great kids, very successful kids in college, and recently retired to live near the beach. So, yeah, things worked out ok for me. But I’m definitely an exception. Had I to do it over, I’d have knocked out as much schooling while I was in the army (heck, I mighta stayed in, would have for sure done the officer route) and I’d save money.
If you’re not deployed and have any semblance of free time? Don’t screw around, go to school. It’ll pay major dividends later in life - in or out of the military.
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I agree with the other comments here. You have a unique opportunity now to start working on a degree. It took me a long time to get my Associates, but I got eventually. When I started there were no online classes, now there are. I would strongly suggest you start now. It will pay off in the future, especially if you choose to get out before retirement or choose to go for a commission. It’s your future you’re planning when you go for the degree. Best of luck whatever you choose.
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