Posted on Dec 18, 2020
2
2
0
Stated this earlier but looking for experienced victims. I am 60% disabled and had 37 years working with an unblemished record. The employer has subcontracted Air Force work, and is a primary contractor with the DoD. I was terminated for non-sense reasons that I have appealed throught thier appeal process. Now they are asking how they discriminated against me as a service-connected disabled Vet. For one, they did not offer me a due process such as options for corrective actions for the reasons they cited. They offered no compassion for my disabilities even though I had to remind them that I deserve more then a good-bye. Its shameful what they did- and no respect for our sacrifices. Their contracts are worth over $200M a year. The company's location is in California.
Is a due-process required for terminating a service connected disabled Vet? Put a different way, since the company does significant work for the military should they have a policy or practice that affords a disabled Vet an opportunity to address any shortcomings such as those that led to the wrongful termination? Since we declare our disabilities in advance on the HR website for our profiles shouldn't that lead to a process that includes termination? I'm struggling with the coldness and harsh practice by this multinational company. The Office of Federal Contract Compliance talks about the protected class of veterans but I'm confused as to the discrimination during the termination - it was the lack of due process that is the discrimination. Put a different way, by not being a part of the investigation or offerred any opportunity to improve or correct the reasons for termination it seems to be a one-way door with no protection for service-connected disabled Vets.
Is a due-process required for terminating a service connected disabled Vet? Put a different way, since the company does significant work for the military should they have a policy or practice that affords a disabled Vet an opportunity to address any shortcomings such as those that led to the wrongful termination? Since we declare our disabilities in advance on the HR website for our profiles shouldn't that lead to a process that includes termination? I'm struggling with the coldness and harsh practice by this multinational company. The Office of Federal Contract Compliance talks about the protected class of veterans but I'm confused as to the discrimination during the termination - it was the lack of due process that is the discrimination. Put a different way, by not being a part of the investigation or offerred any opportunity to improve or correct the reasons for termination it seems to be a one-way door with no protection for service-connected disabled Vets.
Posted in these groups: Employment Specialist
Veterans Employment RepresentativeLegal Officer
Legal Advisor
Disabled Veterans
Veterans Employment RepresentativeLegal Officer Legal Advisor Disabled Veterans
Edited 4 y ago
Posted 4 y ago
Responses: 6
5
5
0
You need to partner with an attorney and/or a Vets Group. Utilize Union arbitration if it applies. Don't expect much mileage due to being a Vet or disabled one. Your definition of non-sense reasons and the statutory legal definition may differ. That's what lawyers argue. EEOC rarely gets involved in low profile cases. ADA cases go to Federal District Court for starters. Most attorneys offer free consults, and if you have a case they might take it on commission. 40% usually, if you prevail. No cost if you don't, some require a retainer.
(5)
(0)
CWO3 (Join to see)
SSgt Mark Ashi - Mark, if you are an at will employee without a contract you can be terminated for cause, legally or otherwise, when HR decides. Absent arbitration, a court must decide based on the merits. Performance is low lying fruit for more aged and highly compensated associates. Veterans are not a protected class. To claim any of the other factors such as age, race, or disability discrimination is a process. Your attorney will have to prove many elements for a discrimination suit. Meanwhile you remain out of work. Many of the Vet groups have depth on this and may assist. Get a legal consult and go from there, IMO.
(0)
(0)
(1)
(0)
CWO3 (Join to see)
Don't proceed with any "process" without representation, as a suggestion. If not Union or legal, at bare minimum another member of mgmt or their EEO even, to be a second for you in case things become disputed. Any offer made by them may change things. If you were close to retirement, 3 mo. is getting off cheap. You seriously need an attorney.
(0)
(0)
3
3
0
Short answer: it sounds like you were a non-union free will employee. If so you can be terminated at any time for any reason or no reason.
Bring disabled may make you part of a protected class. You may have recourse through the company EEO office. Otherwise you’ll need to complain through state equal employment office. However if the company followed the law and their own procedures without discrimination due to your disability you may have no case. They aren’t required to be nice or compassionate, just fair and compliant.
Recommend you contact a lawyer specializing in labor law.
Bring disabled may make you part of a protected class. You may have recourse through the company EEO office. Otherwise you’ll need to complain through state equal employment office. However if the company followed the law and their own procedures without discrimination due to your disability you may have no case. They aren’t required to be nice or compassionate, just fair and compliant.
Recommend you contact a lawyer specializing in labor law.
(3)
(0)
Lt Col Jim Coe
SSgt Mark Ashi talk to a labor lawyer. Too complex for me to comment further. I’m not qualified to give legal advice.
(1)
(0)
SSgt Mark Ashi
I understand your perspective Sir and am giving the company's termination appeal process time to work its way through before contacting a lawyer or government agency. The reason I was reaching out to the RP community in the matter is the questions I have been getting from the Harassment and Discrimination office. When I was being terminated (the meeting), I brought up the lack of compassion and fairness with how I was being treated (i.e., no review of the objective evidence, no company warning or chance for corrective action, no opportunity to respond to an allegation, etc.). They looked puzzled when I said this and I had to remind them that I was a service-connected disabled Vet under treatment for stress and sleep disorders and several of those escalated as a result of the work I was doing for the company. I also stated I had a letter from the VA and my civilian doctor attributing to my conditions. The point of all this was that I had a direct role in overseeing a $100M Air Force contract program and another $100M in a DoD program - and that my disabled status and condition should afford my a benefit of additional consideration if I committed an error (and I did not). They had the termination letter already signed and HR indicated I should have told them about my condition prior to the meeting. I call BS on that because I was already declared as a protected class of disabled Vet in the company's employee profile system and they didnt bother to look or care. Can I prove the discriminated against me - I would argue that their method of termination is in itself a form of discrimination and harassment. It was harsh and unfair. It was steeped in unsubstantiated allegations and very disrespectful. It also demonstrated no appreciation for the work I've done and the Air Force contractor's confidence in my work and abilities. I am angry that a Vet can be treated this way in light of our contributions - I know they don't respect us or our contributions but rather just want to see the work continually flow in the door with no give back to those of us in need of a little help now and then. I have two young children from a late marriage and this is very hurtful and has caused considerable damage. Thank you for your time and listening Sir.
(0)
(0)
Lt Col Jim Coe
As I said before, they don't have to be nice. They do have to comply with Federal and State law. I wouldn't trust any corporate office to do anything to help your case. Seek legal advice. BTW a veteran's organization (VFW, American Legion) may be willing to assist you at little or no cost.
I worked in the private sector for a government contractor for 16 years. Managing $100K to $200K business is good, but it's not uncommon for management to take a "what have you done for us lately" approach. Expanding or building new business is often more important that doing a good job managing the work the company has on the books. Depending on your performance objectives, bringing in new business may have been a part of your job (sometimes the main thing). Sometimes a part of compensation is based on generating new business. If you don't generate new business, you might miss out on a bonus, but it normally won't get you fired. Something else may be going on here.
I worked in the private sector for a government contractor for 16 years. Managing $100K to $200K business is good, but it's not uncommon for management to take a "what have you done for us lately" approach. Expanding or building new business is often more important that doing a good job managing the work the company has on the books. Depending on your performance objectives, bringing in new business may have been a part of your job (sometimes the main thing). Sometimes a part of compensation is based on generating new business. If you don't generate new business, you might miss out on a bonus, but it normally won't get you fired. Something else may be going on here.
(1)
(0)
SSgt Mark Ashi
Thank you Sir. Yes, your perspective makes perfect sense. I was, however, the investigator in 2 whistleblower cases and my gut tells me they wanted to get rid of everybody associated with the cases. I have appealed the termination and they are taking their sweet time answering my appeal. I honestly feel that they are not technically capable of responding to my evidence countering their bullshit reasons. Do you know if I have a time limit for Stete or Federal complaints? It's been 3 months now since I filed my appeal. Thank you!
(0)
(0)
1
1
0
"Due Process" is a term that relates to judicial law, not administrative actions. So that term doesn't apply in your case and you're not entitled to have that standard applied. Your accurate question would be were the relevant processes followed in a matter that is compliant with the terms of the contract and overarching law? The overall governing laws are Title VII (EEO) and the Rehabilitation Act. Contracting Law is found in the Federal Acquisition Regulations (FAR). First, make sure you know what pieces go where. When the Government awards a contract under the FAR, Section 1 of the contract contains many provisions; many incorporated by reference. The EEO and Rehab Act are standard boilerplate clauses. Another clause talks about incorporating the relevant and applicable stuff in any subcontract. So that you're working for a subcontractor but that subcontractor has prime contracts elsewhere is irrelevant. Your direct connection is through the provisions of the prime contract your subcontract employment services. The Federal Government, as represented by the applicable Contracting Officer, has no interest in your issues. They stay out of employer/employee relations. Their only concern that the contract audit types are interested in is if you got paid at least the minimum required by the Davis-Bacon or Service Contract Act. You have three, maybe four paths. Complaint to the Union if applicable (I never saw success there). You can file a complaint with the OFCC, or EEOC, or both. They tend to coordinate their work and also shift things around due to workload.
OK so you file a complaint. Only takes a postage stamp or maybe the internet. However, you have to substantiate it to an "administrative investigator". I've been assigned that role for EEO and other incidents in my day. A staff investigator who has done that for years would be vastly more capable than I ever was. If all you have is allegation and the employer has documented paperwork that supports their reasoning, you won't gain traction. What they did or didn't do to reasonably accommodate a disability falls under a standard which is very different from what you may surmise. Style points are not subject to correction or relief.
Bottom line, you were subjected to an administrative action. Anybody that does work for the Feds over time knows exactly how to generate, save, and present paperwork that shows compliance with the contract provisions and ultimately the law. It takes a special kind of stupid not to. However, I've seen it on occasion.
OK so you file a complaint. Only takes a postage stamp or maybe the internet. However, you have to substantiate it to an "administrative investigator". I've been assigned that role for EEO and other incidents in my day. A staff investigator who has done that for years would be vastly more capable than I ever was. If all you have is allegation and the employer has documented paperwork that supports their reasoning, you won't gain traction. What they did or didn't do to reasonably accommodate a disability falls under a standard which is very different from what you may surmise. Style points are not subject to correction or relief.
Bottom line, you were subjected to an administrative action. Anybody that does work for the Feds over time knows exactly how to generate, save, and present paperwork that shows compliance with the contract provisions and ultimately the law. It takes a special kind of stupid not to. However, I've seen it on occasion.
(1)
(0)
SSgt Mark Ashi
Your response is thorough and much appreciated Sir. At this point, I have filed an appeal with the company because it was offered to me as a path. It was eiterh that or resign with 3 months pay. I did not document along my career path because I had no reason to suspect such harsh and unjust treatment after 37 years and no blemishes on my work record. I had a role in investigating non-compliances including an internal and external whistleblower. My hunch is that several months after the company terminated two of the main culprits, and my boss retired and his replacement was moved to another department, they wanted me gone too and knew that I suffered from stress and would be easy to get rid of.
My appeal was very thorough (140 pp in total) as I had backed up some of my emails earlier in the year and had enough to completely dispel their allegations. They asked for an extension to respond to my appeal and then later, asked for clarification as to my statements regarding how I was treated during the termination process (harsh, unjust, abrupt, no review of the evidence, no compassion, no consideration) specific to my medical treatment. SO now I'm answering questions from a one-year employee in the harassment and discrimination department. Its okay and i appreciate his time as I do you yours and the RP community.
When I read the OFCCP mission, and I do believe these people work diligently to help Vets, it talks about our treatment from hiring to termination. I believe the due-process is what the company should have afforded me based on my role as a manager (no union) reputation, performance reviews, and attendance (haven't called in sick in over 10 years). In the past when I had to terminate employees it was after several opportunities and documented reviews. Put a different way, they were afforded a chance to correct the behavior (and these were civilians, non-military). What they did to me was most likely motivated by other than what was stated in the termination letter. Other factors are at play here including I am the oldest manager in the group (by over 20 years); all my bosses are now new to the company; my team and I work at a satellite location in CA whereas the rest of the management are located in another State; and our VP has little to no involvement in our functions but yet terminated me stating he did. There is more to the story and it includes failure to perform on the military contract. Seems complicated but in my mind its really that they wanted me out and did not offer me any recourse or consideration for the additional stress induced on top of my service-connected disabilities that I have and continue to be treated for at this time. I'm not looking for empathy but do feel wronged and unlawfully terminated with no consideration of past performance or medical shortcomings. Thank you for listening Sir and as stated, I appreciate your thoughts and your time.
My appeal was very thorough (140 pp in total) as I had backed up some of my emails earlier in the year and had enough to completely dispel their allegations. They asked for an extension to respond to my appeal and then later, asked for clarification as to my statements regarding how I was treated during the termination process (harsh, unjust, abrupt, no review of the evidence, no compassion, no consideration) specific to my medical treatment. SO now I'm answering questions from a one-year employee in the harassment and discrimination department. Its okay and i appreciate his time as I do you yours and the RP community.
When I read the OFCCP mission, and I do believe these people work diligently to help Vets, it talks about our treatment from hiring to termination. I believe the due-process is what the company should have afforded me based on my role as a manager (no union) reputation, performance reviews, and attendance (haven't called in sick in over 10 years). In the past when I had to terminate employees it was after several opportunities and documented reviews. Put a different way, they were afforded a chance to correct the behavior (and these were civilians, non-military). What they did to me was most likely motivated by other than what was stated in the termination letter. Other factors are at play here including I am the oldest manager in the group (by over 20 years); all my bosses are now new to the company; my team and I work at a satellite location in CA whereas the rest of the management are located in another State; and our VP has little to no involvement in our functions but yet terminated me stating he did. There is more to the story and it includes failure to perform on the military contract. Seems complicated but in my mind its really that they wanted me out and did not offer me any recourse or consideration for the additional stress induced on top of my service-connected disabilities that I have and continue to be treated for at this time. I'm not looking for empathy but do feel wronged and unlawfully terminated with no consideration of past performance or medical shortcomings. Thank you for listening Sir and as stated, I appreciate your thoughts and your time.
(0)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google