Posted on May 27, 2023
Is Airborne without a border considered a tab? Should I get the “Airborne” on my tattoo covered up or removed?
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The tattoo on the left is mine & the right is an Internet one I found. I have always been told that if the words Airborne and Air Assault don’t have a border around them on a tattoo they aren’t considered a “tab” and anyone can have them.
I have had my tattoo for a decade & my uncle (a Vietnam vet with the 101st/173rd) has seen and known about it the whole time. Now all of a sudden he wants me to cover up or remove ONLY the word “Airborne” because it is on top of the eagle making it a tab & since I was Supply working there from 02-05 and didn’t get to go to air assault school due to the Iraq War starting I haven’t earned the right to have it (This despite the fact he knows I did all the training the Infantry soldiers did on top of my own and did well enough to pass the EIB course & even did the training for Air Assault school including climbing the rope & ringing the bell, etc. as well as my getting pushed back for infantry soldiers coming in to go through first as was the policy).
It costs a lot to cover up or remove a tattoo I am finding out after a decade of having this one. So my question is IF I find someone I can afford to cover up that word should I do it (He is the reason I joined in the first place, otherwise I probably would tell whoever to mind their own)?
I have had my tattoo for a decade & my uncle (a Vietnam vet with the 101st/173rd) has seen and known about it the whole time. Now all of a sudden he wants me to cover up or remove ONLY the word “Airborne” because it is on top of the eagle making it a tab & since I was Supply working there from 02-05 and didn’t get to go to air assault school due to the Iraq War starting I haven’t earned the right to have it (This despite the fact he knows I did all the training the Infantry soldiers did on top of my own and did well enough to pass the EIB course & even did the training for Air Assault school including climbing the rope & ringing the bell, etc. as well as my getting pushed back for infantry soldiers coming in to go through first as was the policy).
It costs a lot to cover up or remove a tattoo I am finding out after a decade of having this one. So my question is IF I find someone I can afford to cover up that word should I do it (He is the reason I joined in the first place, otherwise I probably would tell whoever to mind their own)?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 15
SPC James Seigars
I plan on doing just that, Ma’m. But right now I’m conflicted as to what that is which is why I’m asking for the input of others who may have had a similar experience to mine. Thank you for replying to my question.
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"I have always been told that if the words Airborne and Air Assault don’t have a border around them on a tattoo they aren’t considered a “tab” and anyone can have them."
You've never once heard that as official guidance from the Department of Defense or the U.S. Army although I'm sure you've heard that from a group/individual that gave you the "this is how we do things around here" guidance. Personally, I've never heard "tats being tabs" type of thing in my >32 years in the Army, but then again, I'm not a "tattoo guy" and probably hung around with a different group.
So, it comes down to the individual's or group's social construct - in this case your uncle's - on what is acceptable or not. Frankly, it all comes down to your last sentence - anyone else you would have told to butt out, but he's the reason you joined.
Obviously the relationship you have with your uncle is important to you, so the first thing I would advise is just talking to him to see why he has this change in attitude after it being ok for 10 years. Maybe he hangs with a group of vets from his Vietnam days and that is the social norms with them. Maybe he read something somewhere and one thought lead to another and another and eventually ended up with "My nephew needs to remove Airborne from his army because he's not!". Heck, maybe something about the 101st being in Romania and being "Ukraine adjacent" set him off.
Bottom line: You won't know why he's switched his view on your tattoo unless you talk to him.
If after the discussions with him are done and you know the why of his attitude change he still wants you to have it removed, then I'd say you have a decision to make regarding accepting someone else's social norms in regards to your relationship with them (however, if you do come to the decision that you want to honor his reasons and have it removed that you do as MSG (Join to see) suggested - if he's having the issue, then he can meet you halfway. You agree to remove it and he agrees to pay for it since you're removing it for him).
You've never once heard that as official guidance from the Department of Defense or the U.S. Army although I'm sure you've heard that from a group/individual that gave you the "this is how we do things around here" guidance. Personally, I've never heard "tats being tabs" type of thing in my >32 years in the Army, but then again, I'm not a "tattoo guy" and probably hung around with a different group.
So, it comes down to the individual's or group's social construct - in this case your uncle's - on what is acceptable or not. Frankly, it all comes down to your last sentence - anyone else you would have told to butt out, but he's the reason you joined.
Obviously the relationship you have with your uncle is important to you, so the first thing I would advise is just talking to him to see why he has this change in attitude after it being ok for 10 years. Maybe he hangs with a group of vets from his Vietnam days and that is the social norms with them. Maybe he read something somewhere and one thought lead to another and another and eventually ended up with "My nephew needs to remove Airborne from his army because he's not!". Heck, maybe something about the 101st being in Romania and being "Ukraine adjacent" set him off.
Bottom line: You won't know why he's switched his view on your tattoo unless you talk to him.
If after the discussions with him are done and you know the why of his attitude change he still wants you to have it removed, then I'd say you have a decision to make regarding accepting someone else's social norms in regards to your relationship with them (however, if you do come to the decision that you want to honor his reasons and have it removed that you do as MSG (Join to see) suggested - if he's having the issue, then he can meet you halfway. You agree to remove it and he agrees to pay for it since you're removing it for him).
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SPC James Seigars
Thank you, sir. So far yours is the most thought out of all the answers I have read. I didn’t get any tattoos until just before I retired and even then it was one I had hidden (nobody in my CoC knew about it).
So aside from knowing things like “You can’t get a neck tattoo while active” or “You can’t have tattoos that are readily visible (like my 101st one)” I didn’t think to look into Policy or seek other guidance on them. It was vets who told me about the border being a tab & no border not one (along with some tattooists).
I have pretty much came to the same conclusion you have about asking why the change of heart after so long & if he still wants it changed after we discuss it then he will either have to do as you & the MSG suggest or wait until I can afford to get it done. Again, thank you for your well thought out reply, Sir.
So aside from knowing things like “You can’t get a neck tattoo while active” or “You can’t have tattoos that are readily visible (like my 101st one)” I didn’t think to look into Policy or seek other guidance on them. It was vets who told me about the border being a tab & no border not one (along with some tattooists).
I have pretty much came to the same conclusion you have about asking why the change of heart after so long & if he still wants it changed after we discuss it then he will either have to do as you & the MSG suggest or wait until I can afford to get it done. Again, thank you for your well thought out reply, Sir.
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Since your uncle was okay with your tattoo for a decade....tell your uncle he can pay for the removal since he now suddenly doesn't like it. Yea, he may have been the reason you joined, but that doesn't give him the right nor authority to make you alter your tat.
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Well the Division is known as the "101st Airborne" not just as the "101st"
If he was good with it for 10 years, I'd respectfully tell him to go pound sand, it's not his tat or skin.
If he was good with it for 10 years, I'd respectfully tell him to go pound sand, it's not his tat or skin.
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
A Good Friend I've Had Since 7th Grade, Thomas Wesley Croff,
Served In The 101 St Airborne, Combat Division, Vietnam... During The Early 70's.
Tom Made It Back After 2 Tours, But Paid The Price; A Purple With A Cluster
Served In The 101 St Airborne, Combat Division, Vietnam... During The Early 70's.
Tom Made It Back After 2 Tours, But Paid The Price; A Purple With A Cluster
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SPC James Seigars
A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney My uncle served one tour that I know of and he talks about (being he was also 5th SF group I’m sure there are many things he did I won’t ever know about. Same with his brother (my other uncle) who served during the Korean War. Sorry to hear about your friend’s injuries.
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
SPC James Seigars - ..
I'm About 6 Years Older Than DIRT...
I'll Be 79 In A Few Days ,I Was Born On 06/29/1944. Enlisted On My 17th Birthday. USAF
And Station In South Korea For A Year+ ~ OSAN Air Force Base....06/64 - 06/65,
About 11 Years After The War....And It Was A GREAT Adventure In Those Days....Not So Any More~
TOM, My Good Friend, Is Doing Great.Tom Summer's In Michigan ~ And Get's The "L"Out Of There In The Winters; And Heads To Florida... I Sold My Business In Michigan & Now Living In Vegas ~ Tom Sold His Business Too, & You Know Where He Is.~~.LOL
I'm About 6 Years Older Than DIRT...
I'll Be 79 In A Few Days ,I Was Born On 06/29/1944. Enlisted On My 17th Birthday. USAF
And Station In South Korea For A Year+ ~ OSAN Air Force Base....06/64 - 06/65,
About 11 Years After The War....And It Was A GREAT Adventure In Those Days....Not So Any More~
TOM, My Good Friend, Is Doing Great.Tom Summer's In Michigan ~ And Get's The "L"Out Of There In The Winters; And Heads To Florida... I Sold My Business In Michigan & Now Living In Vegas ~ Tom Sold His Business Too, & You Know Where He Is.~~.LOL
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Not sure if AR670-1 covers tattoo renderings of SSIs, but here is a tidbit: the Airborne Tab on the 101 st SSI is considered part of the SSI. It’s worn regardless of the Division’s jump status. The Division stopped its airborne status in 1967 And began airmobile/air assault.
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SPC James Seigars
Thank you for letting me know, sir. He actually served in 66-67 in Vietnam and then got out so he may not know about the overall change in status of the Base/Division.
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Wear and Show the Tat with pride as it is. It is amazing what some "Old Soldiers" demand as if they are the only ones that count. I fall into the catagory of being a "Viet Nam Era Veteran" as i did not serve in "Country", even though I fought to join the Corps in 1968, made Sergeant 19 months later serving with Force Troops 2nd Tanks and then 3rd Tanks at Camp Hansen, but a lot of those that were in "Country", lets include the VA here as well, don't consider us in most ways. Really sad, we all served our Corps, Country and God as we are assigned or allowed to do. O.K. soap box away for now.
Be proud of what you did and the Tat that you have.
Be proud of what you did and the Tat that you have.
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SPC James Seigars
Thanks for that. I’m sorry to say my uncle was also one of those who didn’t think you were a Vietnam era vet worthy of the same benefits as those who were in country if you didn’t go to Vietnam for a long time. But now I think he has changed his mind, like how he supposedly hated Vietnamese people for decades and is now married to one.
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SPC James Seigars
Sgt David Scott In Supply/Logistics jargon we have “Semper Gumby” which means “Always Flexible”.
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Your body, your tattoo, your decision. To me, your tattoo honors the Division, not attempting to "recreate" the tab. If your uncle sees it otherwise, that's his choice to see it that way and should NOT influence you one way or the other UNLESS you are trying to honor Him with it. From my perspective, it all comes down to what the tatt means to you.
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(Even though it is my combat unit), the 101st hasn't been "Airborne" since the 1960's - - with the exception of 1971 or 1972, when they absorbed the 173rd, to make the 3rd Brigade of the 101st. I often referred to my combat unit as the "101st Leg Division". In Vietnam, practically no enlisted personnel in my infantry battalion was parachute qualified.
But do they still have the moral right to display the tattoo of their combat unit? Hell yes!
But do they still have the moral right to display the tattoo of their combat unit? Hell yes!
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SPC James Seigars
Therein lies the problem I finally found out, MSG. He was in the 173rd when they transitioned to the 101st and was also 5th SF (active) and 20th SF (years later in the Guard/Reserves).
So he feels that even though I was part of the 101st in a war and almost got killed by a Soldier I was in charge of (Sgt. Akbar. I was a Sgt for 38 months myself) before we ever got into Iraq from Kuwait that I don’t deserve to have the Airborne part on my tattoo since I didn’t make five jumps out of a plane or get to actually go to Air Assault school because I was Supply and Air Defense (92Y/13B) and the Infantry soldiers kept getting sent before me since they could do things like get the CIB and EIB (which I earned and couldn’t wear).
To prove my case for keeping the tattoo intact even moreso here is the part of my DD214 that shows I was a Sgt in 2003 (demoted in 2006 after 38 months) and all my military awards & schools only (because I’m not putting all my PII on here).
So he feels that even though I was part of the 101st in a war and almost got killed by a Soldier I was in charge of (Sgt. Akbar. I was a Sgt for 38 months myself) before we ever got into Iraq from Kuwait that I don’t deserve to have the Airborne part on my tattoo since I didn’t make five jumps out of a plane or get to actually go to Air Assault school because I was Supply and Air Defense (92Y/13B) and the Infantry soldiers kept getting sent before me since they could do things like get the CIB and EIB (which I earned and couldn’t wear).
To prove my case for keeping the tattoo intact even moreso here is the part of my DD214 that shows I was a Sgt in 2003 (demoted in 2006 after 38 months) and all my military awards & schools only (because I’m not putting all my PII on here).
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Tell him "I am the border." Then have a a UH-60 land behind you and hop inside. As you fly away, hold your arms out like an eagle and scream the 101ST Airborne Division song.
I'm positive this will solve the argument once and for all.
I'm positive this will solve the argument once and for all.
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SPC James Seigars
Lol, Thanks for that 1LT. I really needed a laugh today. Though I guess I could go to his house singing, “we have a Rendezvous with Destiny, our strength and spirit light the spark that will always make men free, strike right down from the skies of blue, etc”. He would probably think I had lost it if I did though.
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The AIRBORNE Tab is different from other tabs in that it is part of the Unit patch and not an individual award. As a Jumpmaster in the 82d I was NOT allowed to transfer the Airborne Tab to my patch in any other unit. A ranger tab or a SF Tab are individual awards earned by completion of the prescribed qualification course.
You served in the 101. The 101 is basically all Air Assault, and yet the unit patch retained the AIRBORNE tab even though AIRBORNE is talking about Paratroopers, not Helicopter ops. With that being said, You served int he 101, the tab is part of the patch for the 101 and it is called the 101st Airborne Division. I would leave the tat the way it is, tell your uncle that you went to the 101 and did what you were assigned to do and that he can have a beer with another Screaming Eagle and let it go or not.
You served in the 101. The 101 is basically all Air Assault, and yet the unit patch retained the AIRBORNE tab even though AIRBORNE is talking about Paratroopers, not Helicopter ops. With that being said, You served int he 101, the tab is part of the patch for the 101 and it is called the 101st Airborne Division. I would leave the tat the way it is, tell your uncle that you went to the 101 and did what you were assigned to do and that he can have a beer with another Screaming Eagle and let it go or not.
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SPC James Seigars
Thanks for your input. That seems to be the major consensus so it is most likely what I will do. That said I may ask him why it is bothering him now all of a sudden after my having it so long a time. Seems kind of strange.
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